Beodude

iTrader: (3)

Well, did my first tank of premix. Couldn't tell any obvious differences. But I know it's getting better protection.

Asylum5500

I have been useing seafoam for years in many different cars. the stuff is great. but dont know if it would have as good effect as premixing for the 8. the seafoam stuff is for normal engins where lub isnt as important. I think we would get better results from the premix.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

This thread has shot itself in the head.

9k was being sarcastic there's a whole thread on the use of sea foam and its proper use in a rotary engine.

Using seafoam as premix is beyond counterproductive and makes no sense. It would be like carving a paddle out of ice and using it for paddle down a river.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I guess I wasn't obvious enough.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

lol it appears that way.

Side note I've been using Lucas oil 2 cycle semi synthetic for the past 4 months after I ran out of Idemitsu.

I've noticed that it doesn't smoke as much and doesn't smell as bad as Idemitsu. compression appears to be ok no other issues have been found yet. I picked it up at my local oriely's, I'll let you guys know how things look on the fuel pump side when I put in my walbro.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I used Lucas 2 stroke for a while but it is hard to find sometimes. I will have to check O'reilly's, I am running low.

oltmann

I got a quart of Lucas for like $.50 at Pep Boys. The cashier and I were rather confused.

It turns out they will no longer stock it, and it was on clearance. Should have bought them all.

Anyhow, +1 on hard to find.

SpIcEz

I use Lucas as well, as its readily available at Canadian Tires across Canada for 10$ a quart.

When I feel like spending I'll buy Amsoil Interceptor, though its 15$ a quart.

Esso has a good one which is cheap (7$ I think) and its Jaso. But not all Esso stations have it.

SayNoToPistons

iTrader: (8)

I haven't seen any good OTC premixes . I am finishing up my Pennzoil Marine premix and will never use it again because I realized that it is not suitable for us 80% into the bottle... Looks like Ill have to order my premix online.

Zoomin619

9k, thanks for posting the “New and Potential Owners” link. Wish I had seen it before my son purchased his RX8. Not that it isn’t a great car, it’s just that I didn’t think it was a good choice for his first car to buy. Not his first car, just his first purchase.

Just to give a little background, it’s an 04 and was a Mazda buy-back from the original owner. They replaced the engine in Nov 05 at 31k and resold it in Apr 06. It now has 73k. We bought the car from the 2nd owner.

So after we paid for it and we’re backing it out of his garage he says, “oh btw, if the CEL comes on just disconnect the battery cable, that will solve it for awhile“. In our haste, I forgot to have him get the smog cert. I figured no big deal, it’s only another $50. The next morning I start it up to take it to have the smog done and the CEL is on. My mechanic says he can’t do anything with that light on and I need to contact the seller; after all, it’s his responsibility. The trouble was a Secondary Air Injection fault.

The first thing the seller says is, just disconnect the battery! I told him he needed to fix it right. The next day he calls to say that he talked to a rep at Mazda and it should be covered by the extended warranty from the engine change or by the emissions warranty. He made the appointment and I took the car in. They determined that the fault was caused by bad coils and they needed replaced before they could clear the fault and smog the car. Not covered by any warranty, the seller wasn’t too happy to have to pay the $750 for it, but it was his responsibility. The CEL went out, it passed the smog test and our deal was officially complete. The good news was that the dealer did a complete inspection on the car and said there was nothing else wrong and we could expect just normal maintenance to enjoy the car.

The very next day, I started it up to take to get it registered and the CEL is on again. Afterward I took it back to Mazda only to find it was the same SAI fault. Of course they are confused as to why the smog pump is bad and needed replacement since it didn’t show up the day before when the seller would have been responsible for that too. The bad news was that the emissions warranty did not cover it because the car was not originally sold in CA. Oh well…it only cost me $770 to make it right.

Sorry for the rant…but it still stings a little.

Anyway, that brings me to how I found this site to begin with. My original concern was with the engine failures that I’d heard about. But with it having already been replaced, I figured it would probably be better for it. And that led me to the oil mix issue. When we bought the car, the seller gave us a couple 3.2 ounce bottles of 2-cycle ashless oil that he buys from Ace Hardware. He said to add one every 2-3 tanks of gas. I thought the guy was nuts when he told me this, but from reading some of the thread posts on it, I guess not. Frankly, there are too many posts to read, so I hope I’m not missing something important. Hopefully someone can give me the readers digest version of what my son should be doing to protect his investment. Honestly, I wouldn’t know what is best anyway since I have no experience with this, so I could really use the input. I’m a firm believer in the “if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it” rule. If the guy had been using this since he bought it, maybe it’s ok.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated…thanks in advance.

ganseg

iTrader: (5)

You might want to enjoy the key benefit of this car, but maybe your son shouldn't. I have it for the razor's edge handling. I have had two and they are one of the most neutral handling cars out of the box. Most cars have "safe" understeer built in - less likely the rear end will come around.

On premix, the rotary needs lubrication where the rotor's seals meet the engine. Mazda pumps engine oil in there, but it doesn't get all along the seals and four-stroke oil is not designed to burn. THe best is to buy a Sohn adapter so that clean two-stroke oil can be pumped in. A work-around is to put the two storke oil in the fuel.

I was putting .66 oz per gallon in; now I am putting 1 oz per gallon. Whether people agree with this amount or not, the amount the previous owner was putting is was doing nothing (except for the few minutes after his few oz went down to the fuel pump).

1 oz per gallon is a ratio of 132:1 in two-stroke terms. Most two-stoke oils are designed to run at 50:1. You'd have to put over 2 oz per gallon to hit that ratio, but the car is also pumping in the four stroke oil. My opinion is to premix, and to put in enough that it has a chance of working.

There is a much shorter thread with suggestions how to handle this potentially messy process. https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/show-me-your-premix-kit-212860/

Zoomin619

Thanks for your reply ganseg. From my own youthful experiences, I know what you mean. But that also was the reason for helping him get it. Being afraid for him is just not a good enough reason to say no. I hope that he listens well to my stories and does the right thing. Time will tell, but so far so good. He didn't even know how to drive a stick shift last month when we got it. That's why I was getting the details taken care of.

I'll check out that link and come back with more questions I'm sure.

ganseg

iTrader: (5)

In that case, maybe autocross is a good plan. Take it somewhere safe and use it as intended!

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I think you covered it ganseg, not clear your PM box

Rudolph

[quote=ganseg;3904625] now I am putting 1 oz per gallon. Whether people agree with this amount or not, the amount the previous owner was putting is was doing nothing (except for the few minutes after his few oz went down to the fuel pump). 1 oz per gallon is a ratio of 132:1 in two-stroke terms. Most two-stoke oils are designed to run at 50:1. You'd have to put over 2 oz per gallon to hit that ratio, but the car is also pumping in the four stroke oil. My opinion is to premix, and to put in enough that it has a chance of working.
[quote]

This seems to be an adequate ratio imo, because rotary aircraftengines are advised by the manufacturer to premix with 1:85..........traditional larger 2 stroke engines (like marine-outboardengines) require between 1:50 and 1:100...............

Zoomin619

That's a great idea. I'd thought of that too because I used to autocross myself.
Thanks for your input...it really helps. BTW, I posted a question on the other thread that you suggested. If you have any other thoughts, please let me know.

ganseg

iTrader: (5)

Too bad you aren't local. We have a mini road course up here and the BMW club I am in holds two types of class on it - Street Survival and Car Control Clinic. Both spend the whole day alternating between classroom on vehicle dynamics and excercises. The mini road course has some components like emergency avoidance and in the middle is a wet skid pad. (For the winter classes the skidpad is frozen and usually the rest of the course is slippery.) Both for the teen course and the adult course we take the people as far as they are comfortable. Experiencing countersteering for a skid is an example in the safe environment for the teens.

Rudolph - it was great hearing what pilots with rotaries use. I am not sure how to adjust for what the car is pumping in, but your number makes aware of what the proper total would be.
When I get out of warranty, I plan to switch to a Sohn. Thank you!

Zoomin619

Wow...None of the autocrosses I've been to offer those classes, but it sounds like a great idea. I'll definitely get him out there though. Thanks

Rudolph

Fuel
unleaded gasoline / Mogas (ROZ 92) or 100LL 1:80-mixture (premix)
Lubrication
standard-2-stroke-oil (API-TC)

http://www.rotaryengines.ca/main/aircraft.htm

Best regards, Ruud

Beodude

iTrader: (3)

Here is something I wondered a minute ago. Mazda uses crank oil to lubricate the side seals stock. It's a pretty thick oil, relatively. When you put the Sohn adapter in, I wonder how just using 2 stroke (no premix) compares to 4 stroke oil? Would it lubricate enough on it's own, or is premixing necessary when you do a Sohn adapter?

I know this doesn't necessarily super belong on this thread, but it seems to fit pretty well.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

still would be a good idea to pre mix. think about it.
OD

Beodude

iTrader: (3)

Oh don't worry, I'm doing both, for sure. Still, it was just something frothing around in my head. How much weight is really needed in there, especially for a Renesis? With the taller clearances, would we need as much as before? I don't know.

Highway8

iTrader: (11)

Same OMP settings I use a lot more 2-stroke with the Sohn then I did crank case oil.

Also, I figure I use more oil with the sohn then I would if I just premixed 50 to 1 no OMP.

On the race track I can burn 32oz of 2 stroke using the sohn and about 12 gallons of fuel. Thats about 50 to 1 plus I premix 200 to 1.

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

I do both.

ganseg

iTrader: (5)

Good question and good information back from Highway8! When I get a Sohn, I would target 80:1 from the Pilot's webstie and a combo of Sohn and premix. Possibly run more on the track.

Highway8, I recently ran a tank at 2 oz per gal (66:1) and it seemed like it was taking longer to start? Do you have that problem? (I have new stock coils, new RB plug wires and 7,000 mile old plugs.)