Gas/Oil Premix Thread
02-16-2012, 08:33 AM
#3402
Here's a list of the products i have tried with a bunch of both personal and manufacturer informations. The test mule is a 13000rpms screaming husqvarna 125cc 2 stroke engine with 1000km inspection intervals.
Of course there are some differences between a 2 stroke engine and ours but still almost everything applies:
The carburettor may be compared to the intake valves (ssv, apv, vdi) and the piston ring & spring combo to our seals & springs. A metal surface is a metal surface so count the rotor as the piston's top
General rules:
Stay away from off road, marine, lawnmower oils in general.
Prefer 2 stroke oils designed for both straight premix and fuel injections. Our fuel injectors are sensitive so the better the oil mixes the less problems we have.
Scooter oils are generally better for vehicles equipped with cat converters.
This list is not comprehensive or backed up by serious scientifical data, just a bunch of empirical tests performed over the years with my defunct 125cc bike and some car tests without engine disassembly (so useless stuff ).
Valvoline:
Syn Power 2t: Probably the best bang for the bucks in their lineup. Keeps everything clean and is suitable for both premix and separate injection systems. This means, in our case, that the chances of fouling the fuel injectors are close to nil.
The piston looked fairly clean and the rings weren't sticky. Even the deposits weren't that hard. It's a full synthetic oil and that's a plus. The dura-blend variants (semi synth) weren't tested but might be just as good in our case.
It is suits the need of catalytic converted vehicles\bikes.
Racing 2t: This is a real "racing" oil. I used this after a castrol TTS horror story.All of the aforementioned notations apply. It's very dense so in our case it would be better to mix it with fuel first, and then pour it in. Adding it with an empty tank and filling up might work also. Valvoline claims that it prevents throttle sticking. This was the case with my bike. It may, or actually should, work the same with our SSV\APVs that often get stuck. I wouldn't use it with a catalytic converter
Steer clear of the "Competition oil", it's for off road use only and the manufacturer advises not to use it in road and road racing conditions. Mysteries of the off road world!
Mobil:
Mobil Racing 2t: I'd call this an "average" oil that is cat friendly (no, you can't feed it to your cat like castor oil...). The piston had minor deposits but the ring moved freely. Nothing sticky
Mobil lists this oil's properties so here they are:
Mobil 1 Racing 2T
Viscosity (ASTM D445)
cSt @ 40 ºC 83
cSt @ 100 ºC 12.7
Viscosity Index 154
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 0.15
Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97) -42
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 100
Density @15.6 ºC g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.884
Motul:
Motul 710 2T: The only 2 stroke engine you'll ever need and my personal favorite. It's the only lubricant that prolonged the rebuild intervals while keeping everything clean. It's what I use in my car. A bit heavy on the catalytic converter if used over 300g\50L but doesn't do any permanent damage. Opie oils carries it and of course there' the RH discount: http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/MOTUL...3-%28GB%29.pdf
Honorable mentions: Bardahl
Awesome products in general. I tried almost any of their products during the years. You can find almost any info you need on their website.
My personal favorite is the VBA 100 Synth. Possibly the best oil out there for us. The engine looked almost like new, just like Mobil products: http://www.bardahl.nl/uploads/media/...0221__OCD_.pdf
It's not their "top" bike oil but in our applications it won't let us down.
Here's a link to their main 2 stroke oil page: http://www.bardahl.nl/Motorolie-2-takt.230.0.html?&L=1
--------
What I didn't like:
Castrol TTS: Junk oil that nearly got me killed. It gunked up the carburettor and left me with the throttle struck open. Fun...It also leaves a lot of deposits, no matter what castrol claims they're more than what i've seen with the other oils. Plus they're harder. I personally avoid it as i'm sure it would do the same to our intake valves and seal springs (already fragile by nature).
Of course there are some differences between a 2 stroke engine and ours but still almost everything applies:
The carburettor may be compared to the intake valves (ssv, apv, vdi) and the piston ring & spring combo to our seals & springs. A metal surface is a metal surface so count the rotor as the piston's top
General rules:
Stay away from off road, marine, lawnmower oils in general.
Prefer 2 stroke oils designed for both straight premix and fuel injections. Our fuel injectors are sensitive so the better the oil mixes the less problems we have.
Scooter oils are generally better for vehicles equipped with cat converters.
This list is not comprehensive or backed up by serious scientifical data, just a bunch of empirical tests performed over the years with my defunct 125cc bike and some car tests without engine disassembly (so useless stuff
).Valvoline:
Syn Power 2t: Probably the best bang for the bucks in their lineup. Keeps everything clean and is suitable for both premix and separate injection systems. This means, in our case, that the chances of fouling the fuel injectors are close to nil.
The piston looked fairly clean and the rings weren't sticky. Even the deposits weren't that hard. It's a full synthetic oil and that's a plus. The dura-blend variants (semi synth) weren't tested but might be just as good in our case.
It is suits the need of catalytic converted vehicles\bikes.
Racing 2t: This is a real "racing" oil. I used this after a castrol TTS horror story.All of the aforementioned notations apply. It's very dense so in our case it would be better to mix it with fuel first, and then pour it in. Adding it with an empty tank and filling up might work also. Valvoline claims that it prevents throttle sticking. This was the case with my bike. It may, or actually should, work the same with our SSV\APVs that often get stuck. I wouldn't use it with a catalytic converter
Steer clear of the "Competition oil", it's for off road use only and the manufacturer advises not to use it in road and road racing conditions. Mysteries of the off road world!
Mobil:
Mobil Racing 2t: I'd call this an "average" oil that is cat friendly (no, you can't feed it to your cat like castor oil...). The piston had minor deposits but the ring moved freely. Nothing sticky
Mobil lists this oil's properties so here they are:
Mobil 1 Racing 2T
Viscosity (ASTM D445)
cSt @ 40 ºC 83
cSt @ 100 ºC 12.7
Viscosity Index 154
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 0.15
Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97) -42
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 100
Density @15.6 ºC g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.884
Motul:
Motul 710 2T: The only 2 stroke engine you'll ever need and my personal favorite. It's the only lubricant that prolonged the rebuild intervals while keeping everything clean. It's what I use in my car. A bit heavy on the catalytic converter if used over 300g\50L but doesn't do any permanent damage. Opie oils carries it and of course there' the RH discount: http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/MOTUL...3-%28GB%29.pdf
Honorable mentions: Bardahl
Awesome products in general. I tried almost any of their products during the years. You can find almost any info you need on their website.
My personal favorite is the VBA 100 Synth. Possibly the best oil out there for us. The engine looked almost like new, just like Mobil products: http://www.bardahl.nl/uploads/media/...0221__OCD_.pdf
It's not their "top" bike oil but in our applications it won't let us down.
Here's a link to their main 2 stroke oil page: http://www.bardahl.nl/Motorolie-2-takt.230.0.html?&L=1
--------
What I didn't like:
Castrol TTS: Junk oil that nearly got me killed. It gunked up the carburettor and left me with the throttle struck open. Fun...It also leaves a lot of deposits, no matter what castrol claims they're more than what i've seen with the other oils. Plus they're harder. I personally avoid it as i'm sure it would do the same to our intake valves and seal springs (already fragile by nature).
02-16-2012, 08:54 AM
#3403
you must not know who you're arguing with 
this man is God's gift to rotaries!
he has been driving rotaries since before all of us were born...combined!
he won two races in two different states...at the same time!
dinosaurs didnt go exstinct...he just killed them so he could use them to fuel the rotary!
I think he invented the very first rotor...and it still works! I hear he even invented the internet!
how dare you question his infinite wisdom? his superior knowledge of the rotary engine dwarfs all of us lowly Earthlings...YOU DON"T EVEN KNOW!!!
yea bro...you obviously don't realize who you're dealing with
this man is God's gift to rotaries!
he has been driving rotaries since before all of us were born...combined!
he won two races in two different states...at the same time!
dinosaurs didnt go exstinct...he just killed them so he could use them to fuel the rotary!
I think he invented the very first rotor...and it still works! I hear he even invented the internet!
how dare you question his infinite wisdom? his superior knowledge of the rotary engine dwarfs all of us lowly Earthlings...YOU DON"T EVEN KNOW!!!
yea bro...you obviously don't realize who you're dealing with
02-22-2012, 02:22 PM
#3409
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
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OILS I USE AND WORK GREAT:
MOTUL 15W50 MOTION 4000 (mineral) for the engine
MOTUL 710 2T (ester) FOR PREMIX 160:1
MOTUL 15W50 MOTION 4000 (mineral) for the engine
MOTUL 710 2T (ester) FOR PREMIX 160:1
Last edited by SF69; 02-26-2012 at 06:16 AM. Reason: It was bad the oil name
03-02-2012, 04:05 AM
#3419
Super Moderator
Yamaha YZ250?
03-02-2012, 04:31 AM
#3421
Super Moderator
Oh a sewing machine (..
No, seriously it sounds quick G!
..No, seriously it sounds quick G!
03-02-2012, 04:32 AM
#3422
wow,
so funny, i rebuilt my yamaha it175 with all that silly 2stroke stuff a very long time ago. i rode with a guy that was above my speed. when it was done and running fast again..
he said try this.. it was a husky 400 auto, unheard of in those days.. it was the gtr at a miata meet. it scared the ever loving crap out of me.. it was silly in a straight line, but i could never think of placing it between trees.
tools and the ability to use them!
food for thought..
beers
so funny, i rebuilt my yamaha it175 with all that silly 2stroke stuff a very long time ago. i rode with a guy that was above my speed. when it was done and running fast again..
he said try this.. it was a husky 400 auto, unheard of in those days.. it was the gtr at a miata meet. it scared the ever loving crap out of me.. it was silly in a straight line, but i could never think of placing it between trees.
tools and the ability to use them!
food for thought..
beers