EdwardsB

after reading about how the new 8 has 3 oil injectors it swayed me to really look at premixing, bc there is some reason they added a 3rd to get the center. so I have two questions:

1) anyone that has used both Lucas UCL and idemitsu premix be able to compare their experiences in engine smoothness and cost?

2) i do not get to drive my car everyday and it may sit for a week at a time, right now it is also in the cold season. would you not suggest premixing because of this, I don't want it to separate and then just be getting improper ratios in the fuel pump and engine?

swoope

iTrader: (5)

wow,

maybe i should adopt you!!!!

beers

gundarx

(#1) CnnmnSchnpps just gave me some Idemitsu so I'll be able to compare with my next tank of gas. Cost per volume, Idemitsu is about $3-4 cheaper per quart.

My exact scenario (#2).. I'm a bit concerned about that too. Anyone want to dilute a sample of fuel and Idemitsu and have it sit around their home?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Damn!
The stuff comes from Japan. Can't you just get it directly?

I keep a 2 gallon jug of xylene with 4 oz of Idemitsu in it in the garage. Its never fallen out of suspension.

juikster

Why the xylene mixture? what would happen if you ran a premix xylene highball in the Renesis?.....me just thinking out loud







Why is my attached images not showing up in full view?? it used to show at one time

EdwardsB

thanks gundar, and if you don't mind let me know what you think id appreciate it.

MM you don't think there is a problem using premix and have it sit?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Xylene is an octane booster.
2 gallons of the stuff mixed with 12 gallons of 91 fuel yields 95 octane.
I use it during tuning as insurance against ping.

Idemitsu does not seem to settle out.
I can't be completely certain of that.

EdwardsB

Alright thanks for the info

Jethro Tull

iTrader: (6)

You know, with crude oil selling for over $100USD/barrel, I just might have to grab another case or two (or three!) of Idemitsu now, before the price inevitably increases.

CnnmnSchnpps

iTrader: (1)

How long has it been sitting? If it's over a month it's more than good enough for the majority of us..

Jax_RX8

MM is correct - Idemitsu uses short-chain oil molecules (under 12) that are very miscible with gas.

Long-chain oil molecules are the ones that do not mix well with gas - long chains are used in almost all 4-cycle oils and are the primary reason why you can't use them as a premix - they will not mix well and will settle out.

The reason a few 2-cycles use long chain oils as part or all of the base oil is they actually protect better and are cheaper to purchase. They try to get them more miscible by adding solvents, which can help some, but they still will have some settling out issues.

This is why Idemitsu uses Ester-based short-chain base oils- to get great miscibility and great protection, but with a more expensive base oil to achieve it. Didn't know you were getting such a great deal for $5/quart, did you?

CnnmnSchnpps

iTrader: (1)

Jax_RX8 - what is your take on the reports of fuel pump filter clogging?

I think the consensus was that it was caused by using premix alongside other gasoline additives (like FP60?).. Are there any particular combinations to avoid?

For that matter, are there any brands of gas that have additives that might react poorly to premix?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

No, I didn't! Thanks for the education!

I have started using about half the pre-mix amount I was using before (I'm down to about 4 oz per tank) since the OMP is pushing in about 1 oz per 25 miles on its own now from an independent reservoir of Idemitsu through the Sohn adapter.

Now that I can turn that up with the Cobb AccessPORT as well, I feel pretty confident about the amount of oil making into the motor, minus the concerns posted by RG in his thread on the subject.

Jax_RX8

Some of the clogging could be due to premixing of 2-cycles that are using some long-chain oils that are settling out, but I would guess that most of it is actually old, oxidized fuel. Fuel, when it oxidizes, will also gum up and I suspect some of this is a combination of fuel oxidation and just plain dirt in the fuel. BTW - premixing speeds up the fuel oxidation process as well.

Yea, some could be due to mixing premixes, but the ones I have heard of were mixing Lucas UCL with other 2-cycles. The only one I heard of for FP60 was MySQL, and he is not sure the FP60 was the culprit - I actually suspect not, but it could have been. Now that FP Plus is out, that is what everyone should use as it is thinner and a better UCL anyways and does NOT have any mixing issues with other 2-cycles. MMO is also good alone and mixes with everything well.

I don't think any specific brand of gas would be an issue with premix. They all use about the same additives, just in different quantities. What I do, and sugggest to others, is to buy your gas from the busiest place in your area as you will then be getting fresher gas with less opportunity for oxidation or moisture buildup. Gas actually oxidizes quite quickly and will varnish your entire fuel system pretty badly if not used within a few weeks of purchase. Varnish can then continue to build up over time, mix with dirt and moisture, and eventually can cause probelms. Here again, most of the fuel adds I mention also are anti-oxidants for fuel to dramatically slow this oxidation process and to clean up this varnishing.

Jax_RX8

So you can use the COBB AccessPORT to adjust the OMP flow rate? I assume with this new high rate that you have adjusted it up from stock settings?

I wish I could get mine to flow that much as I am still stuck on about 1 qt/3000 miles with the stock ECU/settings, so I continue to premix 6oz IRP and 2 oz FP Plus per 12 gallon fillup.

I just started, however, an MMO test of 8oz/fillup (with no other premix) to form some comparison to my normal brew after a few tanks. I thought I would take some of my own medicine and try it out for a while - will provide feedback in a few weeks.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

The OE tuning puts the OMP at step 3 at idle. I just went up to step 4 and added a few steps at higher load.
My oil consumption went up before the AP when I got the "U" calibration and installed a "new" OMP. The old one wasn't pumping for some reason.

Jax_RX8

Interesting - PM coming

CnnmnSchnpps

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for your posts! Detailed and insightful as ever

I tried MMO at one point but I doubt it will do much for you as a lube. Even without knowing anything about it.. it just seems too thin to provide any protection.

I assume you could also turn it up during decel (fuel cut)? One thing I've been wondering about is how well the combustion/exhaust sides of the housings are lubricated since the oil is getting burned at that point... Would turning up the OMP injection during decel provide any extra protection overall, since it would be able to lubricate the bottom half of the housing while no combustion is taking place? Would the oil get stuck in the chamber (since we have side exhuast ports and no way for it to escape), and cause hesitation once you put your foot back on the gas? Thoughts?

Jax_RX8

Remember though, while viscosity is a factor in lubrication, it is not the predominate one - quality of oil and additives make much more of an impact than viscosity.

Look at the new FP Plus versus the old FP60. FP60 is very thick, like 20-30 weight oil and FP Plus is very thin, much like MMO (about 5 wt oil). But yet, FP Plus is a far, far better UCL as proven by Lube Control's own internal tests and one of the primary reasons they developed it.

JIN13

so wich is beter FP60 or the new FP Plus??????????

[QUOTE=
Look at the new FP Plus versus the old FP60. FP60 is very thick, like 20-30 weight oil and FP Plus is very thin, much like MMO (about 5 wt oil). But yet, FP Plus is a far, far better UCL as proven by Lube Control's own internal tests and one of the primary reasons they developed it.[/QUOTE]

Jax_RX8

FP Plus is the new version, just released about 6 months ago.

While both are good products, FP Plus is a much better Upper Cylinder Lubricant (UCL), burns cleaner, and is made with some renewable ingredients.

FP Plus costs more per gallon, it's standard treat rate is half that of FP60, as FP Plus is more concentrated.

There are also two version of FP Plus - one for gas and one for diesel - and two sizes, quart and gallon, but the gallon is a much better buy.

JIN13

sounds good thanks for the info

tdiddy

I just order a Gallon of FP Plus for Gas and it was $58.28 shipped to my door. I should be receiving it in the next day or 2

Pastrulo

Can Marvel Mystery Oil be used to have this benefit?

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

No, it may be a good solvent like WD-40, but as a two-stroke lubricant, it would be about as much use as spit......

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/renesis-engine-issues-finally-identified-138114/

S