DOMINION

^Yup

Idemitsu FTW!!! I love it and so do all the Vegas boys I gave a qt to

Jax_RX8

Read my posts in the thread that Stealth quoted for a some details on MMO's composition and a differing opinion - about halfway through the thread (page 2).

Also, search on MMO or Marvel on the RX7club.com site, as there are many fans over there (and of course ones who hate it too), some using MMO as there sole premix with a disconnected OMP as well - and it seems to be working for them.

I am currently running this as my only premix for a while to try it out (8oz/12gallon fillup). I do have the Sohn adapter feeding Idemitsu through the OMP, but my first two tanks running MMO only as a premix were quite impressive:

- Seems to make the car start a little quicker.

- Since I have the Hymee exhaust, I can hear every pop and crackle - and I have noticed much less of this with the MMO - seems to supporting more complete combustion.

- While it is a little soon to tell for sure, but it seems that I have less soot on my exhaust tips and rear valence. With using my usual brew (2oz FP Plus and 6oz IRP), I do have quite a bit of buildup of soot, but it seems less with the MMO for now. MMO is known for preventing carbon from solidifying - one of it's key benefits - and this show itself in soot generation at the tailpipe.

As for it's lubricating qualities, MMO is often very misunderstood and compared to WD-40 and such because it is a very thin lubricant - WD-40 is about 80 solvent and 20 % oil, MMO is not. As a percent of total, MMO has the same percent of oil (70%) as normal 2-cycle, the rest being cleaners and various anti-wear agents - it is just thinner, and because of that, many people think it is a cleaner/solvent only, but it is actually a very, very good lubricant.

I actually submitted a question to Marvel's Technical Director, asking about it's relative total lubrication ability versus a normal 2-cycle oil - my response was that while it was thinner, it has much more lubricity agents and thus has at least as much lubrication ability as normal 2-cycle, if not more. While they do not recommend it as a total subsitute for 2-cycle oil for motorcycles and such, they are aware of many that have done so with good success (they do recommend a 25% replacement of the total planned 2-cycle premix with MMO).

Food for thought.

Jax_RX8

Idemitsu is a great product and I use it myself - but it is a lubricant first does not add enough (it adds some) additional cleaning to keep the your motor cleaned out. Anyone using Idemitsu should be mixing in a lubricous cleaner as well to keep things from getting carboned up too much (FP Plus, MMO, Redline SI-1)

surgery

My first case of premix is coming tomorrow. Ordered from Mazdatrix, they shipped it the same day I placed my order.

'07 - 1,400 miles

Planning 1st oil change at 2-3k with idemitsu 10w30 (110 degree summers here)

Element

Is this stuff okay?



According to Shell publication:

http://www.shell.com/static/ca-en/do...cants/1-14.pdf

gundarx

Idemitsu premix observations compared with Lucas UCL

To start off, I've been using LUCL since about 1500 miles on my '07. Every fill-up has had about ~4-6oz of UCL since then except for one I intentionally skipped to feel the difference without UCL. My mileage now is about 4000 miles. I'd like to add that I did not "premix" earlier than these miles to let the engine break-in better... at the moment, holding back on syn. oil (in both engine and tranny) for more break-in to happen.

I wasn't seeing notable mileage gains (never drove like a granny anyway) but LUCL always made the engine run very smooth esp. with high-load, low RPM operations (like 5th gear @ 2K rpm, full throttle) compared to without it.

I've just used a half tank of running ~5oz of Idemitsu premix (I don't drive that often) and immediately after getting a full tank of gas with it, I felt the engine pull stronger in the mid-range than I remember after filling up with no premix or LUCL before (same approx. weather temp. and gas station too- Shell V-Power).

As far as smoothness goes, LUCL wins (as far as low revs, high loads go), but Idemitsu is definitely much smoother than running w/o premix. With high RPM runs, Idemitsu feels smoother too.. can't be too sure yet though.

I was surprised to find both fluids look identical (like veg. oil)! This is good, b/c they're not dyed. BTW, I store them in Mott's 8oz bottles; easy for me to pour in and measure.. can be mistaken for Apple juice.. I get funny looks at gas stations (attaching pic. w/ LUCL in the bottle just for fun)

Some things I liked with UCL better- local store availability, nicer smell , smoothness, knowledge that LOTS of informed people are using these in non-rotaries too and attest to its benefits (mostly mileage and smoothness)

Some things I liked with Idemitsu better- cheaper, does not get thick in the winter cold (you can measure and pour into the gas tank on-the-spot within a minute.. vs. waiting forever for a pre-measured winter trunk-stored thick LUCL to get moving)

Ultimately, Idemitsu will be the one I'll keep in my 8 using simply because its a true 2-stroke premix, has some of the positive qualities of LUCL (maybe better.. more observation will tell)

Jax_RX8

If you are running catless!

From a protection standpoint, it would great just like most other snowmobile and motorcycle 2-cycles. The problem is that these 2-cycles are not designed for use with catalysts and the anti-wear ingredients they use will eventually kill your cat.

We all keep saying this, but unless you are catless (in which you can run about any 2-cycle you want), you need to stick with the proven ones that have shown to be cat-safe.

Insignia

Is there a list of proven ones?

WRXtoRX8

^^^+1 on that

Jax_RX8

This is my list - others can add to it:

2-cycles (for significant lubricity addition with minimal cleaning)

- Idemitsu Rotary Premix
- AMSOIL Saber Professional (make sure it it the Pro version which is full synth)
- Pettit Premix
- Some TCW-3 seems to be OK - Pennzoil Marine Full Synthetic
- Bel-Ray Si-7 (only Bel-Ray 2-cycle that is cat-safe)
Others - add yours here!

Lubricious Cleaners (will provide additional lubricity to supplement OMP oil with good cleaning as well - these could be used alone for moderate additional lube or combined with 2-cycle for much more lubrication with the added cleaning)

- Lube Control FP Plus for Gasoline - IMHO, best cleaner/UCL out there
- Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) - very good lube/cleaner that is cheap with easy access
- Redline SI-1 - good cleaner with just a little lubricity, much less lubricity than the rest on this list)
- Lucas Fuel Additive (UCL) - good lubricant, average cleaning, and only to be used alone though, do not mix with other 2-cycle
- Schaffer's Neutra 131 - very good cleaner lube but expensive and must be bought by mail order in bulk. Schaffers also has another gas add that is supposed to be good as well.

Very Good Cleaners - with no lube and will reduce oil film

- BG44k - the best out there
- Chevron Techron - very good PEA based cleaner
- Gumout Regane - very good PEA based cleaner
- Shell has a new one out based on the formula used for their V-Power gas additive package that is supposed to be pretty good as well - although I don't have an specific details
- There may some other decent ones, check for PEA (Poly Ethyl Amine) use in the cleaner, and if used is likely pretty good
- Most of the rest are mostly kerosene with maybe some mild solvents, which can be beneficial, but will have mild impacts

My 2 cents - may be others to consider as well that I overlooked, but these seem to be proven and work.

philsbluerx8

so which means that if i run with idemitsu rotary premix, i d mix a little bit cleaners like redline SI-1...what about running this premix with 5 tanks of gas alone and the sixth tank i add BG44K in it for doing a complete clean.

CnnmnSchnpps

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the list Jax_RX8!! I'll have to try some of that FP+ that everyone's raving about..

I gotta get me a home chemistry set and set some of these mixes up to sit for a while and see what kind of gunk forms.. But I don't think my landlord will look kindly upon me playing with gasoline in the apartment

Jax_RX8

I would only use the ones on the lubricious cleaners list that often with your premix - in fact I would mix them in EVERY tank.

44k (and the rest) should only be used about every 5k miles or longer (IMHO), even when mixed with premix.

Pastrulo

Thanks for the list, I suspected Marvel would be on it for the reasons listed above, so I'll be using that or the Lucas which are easily available. Now what mix ratio do you recommend on those? how much per tank? I remember putting to much on my CBR and fouling the plugs so....
Thanks

Jax_RX8

I am doing my "test run" with MMO at 8oz per tank (12 gallon fillup for me) - or 1oz per 1.5 gallons - and it seems to be performing well so far per my post above. This is also straight MMO with no 2-cycle. If you choose to add any 2-cycle, go down on the MMO ounce for ounce for each ounce of 2-cycle you add.

MMO is designed to be used anywhere from 1oz to 2.5 gallons (4 oz per 10 gallons) to a max of 1oz per 1 gallon. It won't hurt anything if you go over, it just won't add any additional benefit - per the manufacturer.

If I recall correctly, Lucas UCL is designed to run at a similar dosage - 4 oz to 10 gallons - and I would not go over 8oz for a 12 gallon refill (similar 1oz to 1.5 gallon ratio). Remember to not mix this with 2-cycle, use it alone.

Lucas UCL it much more expensive than MMO, and IHMO, not worth it - I would run MMO before Lucas UCL. Wal-Mart in my area has MMO for $3.33/quart everyday.

ASH8

IMO ...AMSOIL Saber Professional is the best pre-mix for everyday rotary use.


Idemitsu Rotary Premix is obviously very good, but, should only be used in racing applications, not daily driver use.

philsbluerx8

Jay, would the premix have some response to the cleaners; i meant since they are both chemicals, have you or has anyone even tried to figure out what components there are in these two different type of oils? will they cause some disadvantages if i mix them; Before any product hits the market, they must have done a lot testings with gas but did the manufacturer even test if they would be ok to be mixed with tons of different types of oils? I doubt it.

delhi

So what is a good premix ratio for daily driving? I've seen as little as 400:1 to 100:1!

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

4oz to a tank should be good enough

JIN13

hey i read some where that if you premix 2 cycle oil into your gas you can damage you fuel filter and your O2 sensor or wide Band if you have one ??? So is it really worth it ?? would it be beter to just mix FP60 or FP Plus since it claims it won't damage you O2 sensor ??? It cost more but in the long run it might be cheaper...

Bootleg

please read the other 39 pages of this thread.

4oz. is all i add per tank. i usually put around 13 gallons in each fill up.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

then 1/2 the premixers here must be wrong ..... it does say it's for racing on the bottle but I think that is in reference to CAT preservation only .....

Jax_RX8

Some test there products with others, some don't.

I do know that MMO has tested theirs with many, many 2-cycle oils (for gas add) and 4-cycle oils (for oil add) and has found it to be compatible with everything - with one exception, it does not like methanol, but ehtanol is OK. It can be used in fuels with methanol, just not straight methanol, because it will not mix.

I have mixed FP Plus with several different 2-cycles and have never seen any settlng out or any other compatibility issues - and from what I know of it's composition, do not think there would be any chemical conflicts with other 2-cycles.

Most other fuel cleaners use PEA, some or solvents like Mineral Spirits, and Kerosene, and these will all mix with gas and other oils very well.

The only areas I have seen issues are mixing some 2-cycles together as some have very different additive packages that don't seem to like each other. Lucas UCL is almost like a 2-cycle, and does not seem to play well with others.

I would pick you favorite brand of 2-cycle (if you use any) and stick with it all the time, but you should be able to mix the Lubricious Cleaners and other cleaners without any concerns, with the exception of Lucas UCL.

Jax_RX8

Idemitsu is very wishy washy on this as I think they are afraid of being liable for any catalyst failure. On one hand they say it may not be cat-safe, but on the other they say it is one of only a few 2-cycles out there that is cat-safe.

My theory is that "Idemitsu Racing" is actually part of the US version of the name - look at their product brochures at the bottom - and they a using "Racing" as a selling point for use - of course they are used for that, but are also for "street" use.

I don't think their products are really for race cars ONLY like some specialty oils out there like Joe Gibbs Racing oils, which are clearly race-only oils.

Many here have used IRP on catalyst cars with no ill affects, so I would not worry with its use.

New Yorker

I was considering Idemitsu Pre-Mix, so I emailed them and asked if it would be beneficial for my bone-stock, non-raced car, and they said no… if my 8 is totally stock and not raced, don't use it, as it's designed for racing applications only.

Kinda weird for a company to pass up an opportunity to sell their product. That tells me something.