Gas/Oil Premix Thread
04-08-2008, 08:05 AM
#1102
A nice step up!!!
I've been using the MMO for 3-4 fillups. The biggest difference I have noticed is the pleasent smell in the trunk from when it tips over and the bottle does not seal well. I have not noticed any mileage improvement. 18+- before 18+- after. I bought the gallon size so whatever does not leak into the trunk I will run through the car. Minty fresh!
04-08-2008, 09:04 AM
#1103
Got Another Rotary
I used MMO on my first and second tanks of gas this week on a long drive 100% freeway... the first tank I added 16 onces, set the cruise control at 80mph and saw NO difference in gas mileage, I got exactly 18.6 mpg, on my next fill-up, I added 8 more ounces, and set my cruise control at 70mph and boosted my mpg to about 23 or so (I'm at a 1/4 tank and have 250 miles on the odometer, still haven't filled up yet...). my guess is that MMO didn't do anything to help my mileage, but 10mph made a HUGE difference... I bought 3 32oz bottles of MMO so I'll keep using it at least until it's gone but I was hoping for the same effect as 2cyl oil... ie, boosted fuel economy... who know's maybe the MMO did make a difference in conjunction with slowing down, only time will tell for sure... I've actually been thinking about getting the new 2009 RX8 when it is available for order in a few months (new look, 4.11 final drive=better acceleration), but in all honesty, with this fuel economy and gas prices on the sharp rise... I may be buying the new Supra instead... 400hp, 400 lb ft tq, gas/electric hybrid with over 30mpg (I know that Toyota keeps denying that it's coming, but I just stopped working for Toyota, and it IS coming, 2 versions, a Toyota hybrid and a lexus version with a V10)... I adore my rotary but $62 dollars to fill her up hurts when it's only gonna get me 200mi... if she had a 20b it would totally be worth the mileage sacrifice! I wish for a MAZDASPEED version with a NA 20b (or turbo, but I imagine that would make it pretty pricey)...that would be sweet!
I've been using the MMO for 3-4 fillups. The biggest difference I have noticed is the pleasent smell in the trunk from when it tips over and the bottle does not seal well. I have not noticed any mileage improvement. 18+- before 18+- after. I bought the gallon size so whatever does not leak into the trunk I will run through the car. Minty fresh!
While it does help with combustion efficiently as well as it's lubrication and cleaning abilities, the ECU will eventually "richen" the Air/Fuel ratio back up to its normal rates to compensate for the more efficient burn (damn oxygen sensors
), so any long term fuel mileage gain will be from less internal friction and a cleaner running engine.That said, I use MMO for the added protection and cleanliness, not with the expectation of getting better MPGs. If you get any, consider it an added bonus.
04-08-2008, 09:11 AM
#1104
Got Another Rotary
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/secti...tentId=7040552
04-08-2008, 01:26 PM
#1105
Lubricious
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I've been using the MMO for 3-4 fillups. The biggest difference I have noticed is the pleasent smell in the trunk from when it tips over and the bottle does not seal well. I have not noticed any mileage improvement. 18+- before 18+- after. I bought the gallon size so whatever does not leak into the trunk I will run through the car. Minty fresh!
Lol, same here. The bottle weeps a little. Trunk has a nice wintergreen scent now.
And yes, there is a definite difference in the "bouquet" of the exhaust itself. Not wintergreen exactly, but distinctive. I like it.
I guess I need to find a better bottle, or maybe cut a neoprene gasket for the cap. I had an empty 6.4 oz bottle of some other garbage 2-stroke that I used for the weedeater, so that's become my official MMO dose for the RX-8. Very scientific, eh!
After de-carboning and starting the MMO premix the car does idle more smoothly. Most noticeably when cold. You really notice it when puttering through a parking garage.
04-09-2008, 08:00 PM
#1106
Leave our Dok-do alone!!!
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I still use the Idemitsu Premix. During my first three initial fill-ups using the premix, I got close to 20% increase in the gas mileage. I do mostly freeway driving, so that must have played a factor. Now, I guess the oxygen sensor has adjusted and am getting about 10% increase with premix.
I tried going without the premix and just felt that the car ran better with it than without, so I am sticking with Idemitsu for now. I am, however, concerned about the carbon build up and cat failing, so I have been using the Techron from Chevron with every other fill up. I know that it's costly especially with current gas prices, but I want to keep my car running smoothly for a long time.
My question is am I using too much Techron? How often should I add the cleaner?
One other question is for those who have used either Idemitsu or MMO and switched. Is one really better than the other? Is it like comparing the apples to orages, or is one really superior? Does MMO have that much more cleaning power than Idemitsu? The reason I am asking is that I read the information on the Idemitsu premix, and it does say that it has the cleaning additives.
I tried going without the premix and just felt that the car ran better with it than without, so I am sticking with Idemitsu for now. I am, however, concerned about the carbon build up and cat failing, so I have been using the Techron from Chevron with every other fill up. I know that it's costly especially with current gas prices, but I want to keep my car running smoothly for a long time.
My question is am I using too much Techron? How often should I add the cleaner?
One other question is for those who have used either Idemitsu or MMO and switched. Is one really better than the other? Is it like comparing the apples to orages, or is one really superior? Does MMO have that much more cleaning power than Idemitsu? The reason I am asking is that I read the information on the Idemitsu premix, and it does say that it has the cleaning additives.
Last edited by 07rx8gtblack; 04-10-2008 at 01:04 AM.
04-09-2008, 11:11 PM
#1107
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Problem scenario:
You've driven the past 20 miles with a low-fuel indicator light, and just pulled into your favorite top-tier gas station. You pop the fuel door and inject 4 oz - 6 oz of 2 stroke oil and whatever other ingredients you favor. Unfortunately you find that you cannot pump gas into the tank. Varying reasons. For example, the gas station might be out of 91 octane. Or the pump you're at is acting up or rejecting payment or out of order.
1. You need to start the car and move 50 feet to try the next gas pump. There's a high ratio of 2 stroke oil to gasoline in the tank. Will there be engine damage?
2. You need to drive 5 miles to the next top-tier gas station. Thre's a high ratio of 2 stroke oil to gasoline in the tank. Will there be any engine damage?
You've driven the past 20 miles with a low-fuel indicator light, and just pulled into your favorite top-tier gas station. You pop the fuel door and inject 4 oz - 6 oz of 2 stroke oil and whatever other ingredients you favor. Unfortunately you find that you cannot pump gas into the tank. Varying reasons. For example, the gas station might be out of 91 octane. Or the pump you're at is acting up or rejecting payment or out of order.
1. You need to start the car and move 50 feet to try the next gas pump. There's a high ratio of 2 stroke oil to gasoline in the tank. Will there be engine damage?
2. You need to drive 5 miles to the next top-tier gas station. Thre's a high ratio of 2 stroke oil to gasoline in the tank. Will there be any engine damage?
04-10-2008, 12:40 AM
#1108
Power!!
No It won't be damaged. over such a short distance. It will lower your octane so don't step on it and prolonged high ratio will foul your spark plugs. BTW filling with 89 is fine so don't let that stop you.
04-10-2008, 07:11 AM
#1109
Got Another Rotary
I tried going without the premix and just felt that the car ran better with it than without, so I am sticking with Idemitsu for now. I am, however, concerned about the carbon build up and cat failing, so I have been using the Techron from Chevron with every other fill up. I know that it's costly especially with current gas prices, but I want to keep my car running smoothly for a long time.
My question is am I using too much Techron? How often should I add the cleaner?
My question is am I using too much Techron? How often should I add the cleaner?
Now, I do think it is a good idea to add more cleaners to every tank with your Idemitsu like you are doing, but it should be a lubricius cleaner, from this list as these will not affect your oil films -
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=968
BTW - there is no reason you cannot mix MMO and Idemitsu if you want to try that
One other question is for those who have used either Idemitsu or MMO and switched. Is one really better than the other? Is it like comparing the apples to orages, or is one really superior? Does MMO have that much more cleaning power than Idemitsu? The reason I am asking is that I read the information on the Idemitsu premix, and it does say that it has the cleaning additives.
MMO is more suited to be used as your "one" premix if you are adverse to mixing as it does both well, but Idemitsu really still needs some more cleaning to go with its great lubrication qualities, its cleaning ability is just not enough to keep up with all the carbon a rotary produces with it's rich fuel mixture - so I recommend adding a lubricious cleaner to the mix as well (or add some every few tanks like you are doing). FP Plus would be the best one to blend in, but is expensive. MMO is also a good one to blend in as well.
Last edited by Jax_RX8; 04-10-2008 at 07:22 AM.
04-10-2008, 07:27 AM
#1110
A nice step up!!!
Lol, same here. The bottle weeps a little. Trunk has a nice wintergreen scent now.
And yes, there is a definite difference in the "bouquet" of the exhaust itself. Not wintergreen exactly, but distinctive. I like it.
I guess I need to find a better bottle, or maybe cut a neoprene gasket for the cap. I had an empty 6.4 oz bottle of some other garbage 2-stroke that I used for the weedeater, so that's become my official MMO dose for the RX-8. Very scientific, eh!
After de-carboning and starting the MMO premix the car does idle more smoothly. Most noticeably when cold. You really notice it when puttering through a parking garage.
And yes, there is a definite difference in the "bouquet" of the exhaust itself. Not wintergreen exactly, but distinctive. I like it.
I guess I need to find a better bottle, or maybe cut a neoprene gasket for the cap. I had an empty 6.4 oz bottle of some other garbage 2-stroke that I used for the weedeater, so that's become my official MMO dose for the RX-8. Very scientific, eh!
After de-carboning and starting the MMO premix the car does idle more smoothly. Most noticeably when cold. You really notice it when puttering through a parking garage.
04-10-2008, 10:15 PM
#1111
Registered
Damn, I read this whole thread (and a few others) and I'm ready to start premixing in my (new to me) 11k 2006 MT. Just ordered a case of Idemitsu and a gallon of FP Plus.
Here's my question: Are most people still using a 1/2 oz per gallon of Idemitsu?
I've seen some people say less may be better with the more recent flashes.
Here's my question: Are most people still using a 1/2 oz per gallon of Idemitsu?
I've seen some people say less may be better with the more recent flashes.
04-11-2008, 02:17 PM
#1113
Leave our Dok-do alone!!!
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https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=968
BTW - there is no reason you cannot mix MMO and Idemitsu if you want to try that
BTW - there is no reason you cannot mix MMO and Idemitsu if you want to try that
I think I will be trying out the Idemitsu w/ FP first and try out the MMO and Idemitsu combination.
04-12-2008, 02:19 AM
#1116
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I ordered a case of Idemitsu for my 07 GT and noticed it did run smoother while premixing at 8oz per 13 gallons.
I have plenty of Idemitsu left, but based on Jax recommendation and other research I have switched to MMO. I am now using 8oz of MMO per 13 gallon fillup. Don't see much difference except the idle is smoother with the MMO- BUT I also added the RB duct and removed one of the filter screens so that could have helped.
Premixing with either produces a slight odor that is barely noticeable and only at certain times. For me, both made for smoother idle and all around driving/acceleration. I'm using the MMO now because if its alleged cleaning capabilities and ease of purchase. So far I'm very happy and probably won't go back to the Idemitsu for a while.
EDIT: I'm not interested in experimenting with combination lub/cleaners. Just too much work for me. I value my car but I draw the line somewhere, so I've been looking for a "one-stop-shop". It seems MMO is the way to go in my case. Even the bottle is well designed so I don't need to carry 8oz containers around. That being said, I'm sure Idemitsu is a wonderful product- I still have a half a case which I plan to use at some point. Anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that MMO is just slightly better as the one and only premix to use. I wouldn't discourage you from Idemitsu. Swoope, Jax, Expo and others have had a great experience.
I have plenty of Idemitsu left, but based on Jax recommendation and other research I have switched to MMO. I am now using 8oz of MMO per 13 gallon fillup. Don't see much difference except the idle is smoother with the MMO- BUT I also added the RB duct and removed one of the filter screens so that could have helped.
Premixing with either produces a slight odor that is barely noticeable and only at certain times. For me, both made for smoother idle and all around driving/acceleration. I'm using the MMO now because if its alleged cleaning capabilities and ease of purchase. So far I'm very happy and probably won't go back to the Idemitsu for a while.
EDIT: I'm not interested in experimenting with combination lub/cleaners. Just too much work for me. I value my car but I draw the line somewhere, so I've been looking for a "one-stop-shop". It seems MMO is the way to go in my case. Even the bottle is well designed so I don't need to carry 8oz containers around. That being said, I'm sure Idemitsu is a wonderful product- I still have a half a case which I plan to use at some point. Anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that MMO is just slightly better as the one and only premix to use. I wouldn't discourage you from Idemitsu. Swoope, Jax, Expo and others have had a great experience.
Last edited by Zephyrzone; 04-12-2008 at 02:24 AM.
04-14-2008, 08:34 PM
#1118
Jax_RX8-
Lubricious Cleaners (will provide additional lubricity to supplement OMP oil with good cleaning as well - these could be used alone for moderate additional lube or combined with 2-cycle for much more lubrication with the added cleaning)
- Lube Control FP Plus for Gasoline - IMHO, best cleaner/UCL out there
- Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) - very good lube/cleaner that is cheap with easy access
- Redline SI-1 - good cleaner with just a little lubricity, much less lubricity than the rest on this list)
- Lucas Fuel Additive (UCL) - good lubricant, average cleaning, and only to be used alone though, do not mix with other 2-cycle
- Schaffer's Neutra 131 - very good cleaner lube but expensive and must be bought by mail order in bulk. Schaffers also has another gas add that is supposed to be good as well.
Lubricious Cleaners (will provide additional lubricity to supplement OMP oil with good cleaning as well - these could be used alone for moderate additional lube or combined with 2-cycle for much more lubrication with the added cleaning)
- Lube Control FP Plus for Gasoline - IMHO, best cleaner/UCL out there
- Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) - very good lube/cleaner that is cheap with easy access
- Redline SI-1 - good cleaner with just a little lubricity, much less lubricity than the rest on this list)
- Lucas Fuel Additive (UCL) - good lubricant, average cleaning, and only to be used alone though, do not mix with other 2-cycle
- Schaffer's Neutra 131 - very good cleaner lube but expensive and must be bought by mail order in bulk. Schaffers also has another gas add that is supposed to be good as well.
Our engines have an issue that Mazda is not owning up to. Mazda has corrected the issue with the new OMP in the updated RX-8 and is trying to address it in our engines with the new flash and increase OMP flow.
I would not use just 2 cycle oil alone, because you are not combating the carbon build up/crap build up problems. I also did not notice any performance increases with just 2 cycle oil premix.
I did not notice any changes with MMO, but of course I don't have scientific data on this and can't see inside the engine. I have however, did notice responsiveness and gas mileage improvement when using Redline SI-1.
Of the group that Jax pointed out, I just wish there was a head to head comparison for the Lubricious Cleaners. I lean towards Redline, Lucas, and Lube Control because it is very clear what they are doing. They are lubricating and combating carbon buildup.
Presently I'm trying out Lucas Fuel Additive and have used Redline SI-1 and MMO in the past, just seeing if there is any discernible performance difference.
Note- before switching gas additives, I fill up with an entire tank and do NOT add anything.
Last edited by sosonic; 04-14-2008 at 08:54 PM.
04-15-2008, 09:40 AM
#1119
rev44
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I just finished my third tank since starting 8oz per fill up of MMO. My ave MPG has gone from 17.2 to 19.6
My driving habits are consistant from tank to tank. I also seem to have slightly better performance. I was previously using Bel ray MC-1 at 6oz per tank. My guess is I had some "gunk" that the MMO seems to be cleaning up. I will post again if I see any MPG changes but so far so good.
Thanks Jax
My driving habits are consistant from tank to tank. I also seem to have slightly better performance. I was previously using Bel ray MC-1 at 6oz per tank. My guess is I had some "gunk" that the MMO seems to be cleaning up. I will post again if I see any MPG changes but so far so good.
Thanks Jax
04-16-2008, 12:27 PM
#1120
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I just finished my third tank since starting 8oz per fill up of MMO. My ave MPG has gone from 17.2 to 19.6
My driving habits are consistant from tank to tank. I also seem to have slightly better performance. I was previously using Bel ray MC-1 at 6oz per tank. My guess is I had some "gunk" that the MMO seems to be cleaning up. I will post again if I see any MPG changes but so far so good.
Thanks Jax
My driving habits are consistant from tank to tank. I also seem to have slightly better performance. I was previously using Bel ray MC-1 at 6oz per tank. My guess is I had some "gunk" that the MMO seems to be cleaning up. I will post again if I see any MPG changes but so far so good.
Thanks Jax
Anyway, I'm not using it to increase gas mileage. I'm using it to keep the engine lubed and carbon free for years to come. I'll be sticking with MMO for quite some time. Maybe add a little Idemitsu now and then since I have an entire case of it lying around.
04-16-2008, 01:25 PM
#1121
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I'm at 98,000 miles and I was jus told I need a new engine. I knew all or most of the tricks. I warmed her up before driving, added oil, and revved the heck out of her a lot of the time. I had no engine problems, never flooded once, and I was one of those guys sitting back watching everyone with their flooding problems and replaced engines and thinking to myself "what's wrong with these people?"
Now after dealing with the idiots at my local Mazda service dealer and Mazda NA I have no other belief than Mazda made a flawed (though not deeply) product and is now cutting their losses. Who in this day lowere their powertrain warranty? GM now gives you a 100,000 mile warranty why, because they feel regardless of whatever else may go wrong with their new cars, their engines will last over 100,000 miles. I've had friends with Acuras have their trans go @ 100,000 miles and Acura dropped one in no charge, because they chose to stand by their vehicles. With Mazda, you get what you pay for, Mazda service!
My belief is that a majority of the 8s engines will need replacing before 100,000 miles. This is not acceptable in todays car culture. 25 years ago, maybe. Some new cars don't require much maintenance till 100k and will easily get over 200k miles.
Now after dealing with the idiots at my local Mazda service dealer and Mazda NA I have no other belief than Mazda made a flawed (though not deeply) product and is now cutting their losses. Who in this day lowere their powertrain warranty? GM now gives you a 100,000 mile warranty why, because they feel regardless of whatever else may go wrong with their new cars, their engines will last over 100,000 miles. I've had friends with Acuras have their trans go @ 100,000 miles and Acura dropped one in no charge, because they chose to stand by their vehicles. With Mazda, you get what you pay for, Mazda service!
My belief is that a majority of the 8s engines will need replacing before 100,000 miles. This is not acceptable in todays car culture. 25 years ago, maybe. Some new cars don't require much maintenance till 100k and will easily get over 200k miles.
04-16-2008, 04:59 PM
#1122
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Thanks for the input. Very sad to hear the news but always good for everyone to hear the reality. A few questions:
1- Did you ever premix?
2- Why does your engine need to be replaced? Did the technicians give you an exact cause (carbon lock, bad apex seal, etc.)?
3- How much will it cost you and are you going to do it?
1- Did you ever premix?
2- Why does your engine need to be replaced? Did the technicians give you an exact cause (carbon lock, bad apex seal, etc.)?
3- How much will it cost you and are you going to do it?
04-16-2008, 05:27 PM
#1123
I'm at 98,000 miles and I was jus told I need a new engine. I knew all or most of the tricks. I warmed her up before driving, added oil, and revved the heck out of her a lot of the time. I had no engine problems, never flooded once, and I was one of those guys sitting back watching everyone with their flooding problems and replaced engines and thinking to myself "what's wrong with these people?"
Now after dealing with the idiots at my local Mazda service dealer and Mazda NA I have no other belief than Mazda made a flawed (though not deeply) product and is now cutting their losses. Who in this day lowere their powertrain warranty? GM now gives you a 100,000 mile warranty why, because they feel regardless of whatever else may go wrong with their new cars, their engines will last over 100,000 miles. I've had friends with Acuras have their trans go @ 100,000 miles and Acura dropped one in no charge, because they chose to stand by their vehicles. With Mazda, you get what you pay for, Mazda service!
My belief is that a majority of the 8s engines will need replacing before 100,000 miles. This is not acceptable in todays car culture. 25 years ago, maybe. Some new cars don't require much maintenance till 100k and will easily get over 200k miles.
Now after dealing with the idiots at my local Mazda service dealer and Mazda NA I have no other belief than Mazda made a flawed (though not deeply) product and is now cutting their losses. Who in this day lowere their powertrain warranty? GM now gives you a 100,000 mile warranty why, because they feel regardless of whatever else may go wrong with their new cars, their engines will last over 100,000 miles. I've had friends with Acuras have their trans go @ 100,000 miles and Acura dropped one in no charge, because they chose to stand by their vehicles. With Mazda, you get what you pay for, Mazda service!
My belief is that a majority of the 8s engines will need replacing before 100,000 miles. This is not acceptable in todays car culture. 25 years ago, maybe. Some new cars don't require much maintenance till 100k and will easily get over 200k miles.
1) Have you ever used any oil other than non-synthetic 5W-20? (Be honest.)
2) Do you have any mods to your car (even little ones that "don't matter")?
3) Did you ever premix or add anything other than gasoline to your fuel tank?
04-16-2008, 10:32 PM
#1125
No means yes
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Premix and mileage
Some data on what premix does to my mileage. I'm not trying to say that premixing will improve your gas mileage, but mileage is a good indication of how the engine is doing.. Anyway, take a look:
The red line is a moving average of the mpg from 11 consecutive fillups (the normal graph is too jagged, so I have to average it out). The blue line on the bottom indicates when premix was being used.
The red line is a moving average of the mpg from 11 consecutive fillups (the normal graph is too jagged, so I have to average it out). The blue line on the bottom indicates when premix was being used.