Gas/Oil Premix Thread
04-29-2008, 07:25 PM
#1226
One Shot One Kill
No facts? Fear mongering?? How ironic. You've got half of the people here believing their engine is doomed if they don't premix. With no independent, unbiased scientific evidence to back it up. Just a big fat pile of anecdotal evidence—"I started premixing and now I'm getting smoother idle and more power". I get that after I Zaino my car. 
04-30-2008, 02:38 PM
#1227
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My car is new with 11k miles, I've been premixing for 5k of them. I've used Lucas UCL, Idemitsu and now MMO in varying quantities. I also just got the MSP16 flash yesterday. I plan on continuing to premix with something, every tank, in small amounts. All research I've done points to MMO cleaning carbon from any engine (especially important on ours) while also providing additional lubrication.
It seems that when Renesis engines die it's because of carbon lock -or- lack of lubrication. Two mutually exclusive problems unfortunately. Add more oil and you're more likely to carbon lock the engine. Add less oil and it's not lubricated enough.
I do keep lowering my premix amount though. I'm now at 4oz of MMO per 13 gallon fillup and will probably stay there. Down from 8oz. Not enough IMO to jeopardize the integrity of the oil and just enough to help where help is needed.
2 more comments:
1)- I don't see any "fear-mongering" just rational discussion among (mostly) intelligent members on what's best for their car.
2)- The article quoted earlier is in reference to additives being used in piston engines. I doubt the author was thinking about rotary engines when he penned that piece. If carbon locking and/or lubrication issues were more prevalent on reciprocating engines he may have come to a different conclusion about the merit of additives.
04-30-2008, 07:52 PM
#1229
ok everyone knows i have supported pre mixing---for a long time. Well I recently swapped out engines myself and took the old one apart. I didnt like what I found. I had a 50K engine--well maintained--and ran correctly. I pre mixed from approx 20k forward usually 6- 8 ozs per tank.
It was very easy to see that there was a lack of lubrication. the front eccentric bearing was wore almost through the copper on the bottom part(the top usuall suggest to tight of belts), the housings---well starting at the top of the trailing sparkplug hole all the way to the 2 small oil weep holes was heavily chromed. Suggesting wear. For a small distance pass the oil weep oils the housing had clatter marks but really had a nice dull finish to it.
Now pre mix I believe helps in performance and smoothness, but i am not so sure it really helps with lubrication that controls engine wear--the amount we use is not enough for that.
i found a lot of other stuff tooo but that is another story.
take it for what it is worth.
olddragger
It was very easy to see that there was a lack of lubrication. the front eccentric bearing was wore almost through the copper on the bottom part(the top usuall suggest to tight of belts), the housings---well starting at the top of the trailing sparkplug hole all the way to the 2 small oil weep holes was heavily chromed. Suggesting wear. For a small distance pass the oil weep oils the housing had clatter marks but really had a nice dull finish to it.
Now pre mix I believe helps in performance and smoothness, but i am not so sure it really helps with lubrication that controls engine wear--the amount we use is not enough for that.
i found a lot of other stuff tooo but that is another story.
take it for what it is worth.
olddragger
04-30-2008, 08:15 PM
#1230
Registered
ok everyone knows i have supported pre mixing---for a long time. Well I recently swapped out engines myself and took the old one apart. I didnt like what I found. I had a 50K engine--well maintained--and ran correctly. I pre mixed from approx 20k forward usually 6- 8 ozs per tank.
It was very easy to see that there was a lack of lubrication. the front eccentric bearing was wore almost through the copper on the bottom part(the top usuall suggest to tight of belts), the housings---well starting at the top of the trailing sparkplug hole all the way to the 2 small oil weep holes was heavily chromed. Suggesting wear. For a small distance pass the oil weep oils the housing had clatter marks but really had a nice dull finish to it.
Now pre mix I believe helps in performance and smoothness, but i am not so sure it really helps with lubrication that controls engine wear--the amount we use is not enough for that.
i found a lot of other stuff tooo but that is another story.
take it for what it is worth.
olddragger
It was very easy to see that there was a lack of lubrication. the front eccentric bearing was wore almost through the copper on the bottom part(the top usuall suggest to tight of belts), the housings---well starting at the top of the trailing sparkplug hole all the way to the 2 small oil weep holes was heavily chromed. Suggesting wear. For a small distance pass the oil weep oils the housing had clatter marks but really had a nice dull finish to it.
Now pre mix I believe helps in performance and smoothness, but i am not so sure it really helps with lubrication that controls engine wear--the amount we use is not enough for that.
i found a lot of other stuff tooo but that is another story.
take it for what it is worth.
olddragger
04-30-2008, 08:43 PM
#1231
On the disassembled engine i had only about 1500 miles of the 52k with fi. Fuel starvation was long before the fi. I only dynoed the car once and that was approx 2 1/2 yrs ago--the car went into a limp mode at 8,5 k --all 4 coils were burnt and the maf was oil covered.
Nothing really unusual about it--fairly common probs discussed on this forum
I had one of those cars that never seemed to use oil.
OD
Nothing really unusual about it--fairly common probs discussed on this forum
I had one of those cars that never seemed to use oil.
OD
04-30-2008, 08:52 PM
#1232
Registered
On the disassembled engine i had only about 1500 miles of the 52k with fi. Fuel starvation was long before the fi. I only dynoed the car once and that was approx 2 1/2 yrs ago--the car went into a limp mode at 8,5 k --all 4 coils were burnt and the maf was oil covered.
Nothing really unusual about it--fairly common probs discussed on this forum
I had one of those cars that never seemed to use oil.
OD
Nothing really unusual about it--fairly common probs discussed on this forum
I had one of those cars that never seemed to use oil.
OD
05-01-2008, 10:18 AM
#1234
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ok everyone knows i have supported pre mixing---for a long time. Well I recently swapped out engines myself and took the old one apart. I didnt like what I found. I had a 50K engine--well maintained--and ran correctly. I pre mixed from approx 20k forward usually 6- 8 ozs per tank.
It was very easy to see that there was a lack of lubrication. the front eccentric bearing was wore almost through the copper on the bottom part(the top usuall suggest to tight of belts), the housings---well starting at the top of the trailing sparkplug hole all the way to the 2 small oil weep holes was heavily chromed. Suggesting wear. For a small distance pass the oil weep oils the housing had clatter marks but really had a nice dull finish to it.
Now pre mix I believe helps in performance and smoothness, but i am not so sure it really helps with lubrication that controls engine wear--the amount we use is not enough for that.
i found a lot of other stuff tooo but that is another story.
take it for what it is worth.
olddragger
It was very easy to see that there was a lack of lubrication. the front eccentric bearing was wore almost through the copper on the bottom part(the top usuall suggest to tight of belts), the housings---well starting at the top of the trailing sparkplug hole all the way to the 2 small oil weep holes was heavily chromed. Suggesting wear. For a small distance pass the oil weep oils the housing had clatter marks but really had a nice dull finish to it.
Now pre mix I believe helps in performance and smoothness, but i am not so sure it really helps with lubrication that controls engine wear--the amount we use is not enough for that.
i found a lot of other stuff tooo but that is another story.
take it for what it is worth.
olddragger
05-02-2008, 12:04 PM
#1235
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No offense to Jax but it's amazing how many Jax parrots there are out there now. "Squawk - lubricious", "Polly thinks your oil film is compromised", "Whistle - varnish and carbon deposits".
I know everyone is eager to help but please don't pretend you're experts. We're lucky to have someone who is knowledgeable in the area but for the rest of you don't give advice lest you'd like to be held liable.
I know everyone is eager to help but please don't pretend you're experts. We're lucky to have someone who is knowledgeable in the area but for the rest of you don't give advice lest you'd like to be held liable.
05-02-2008, 01:46 PM
#1237
Power!!
ok everyone knows i have supported pre mixing---for a long time. Well I recently swapped out engines myself and took the old one apart. I didnt like what I found. I had a 50K engine--well maintained--and ran correctly. I pre mixed from approx 20k forward usually 6- 8 ozs per tank.
It was very easy to see that there was a lack of lubrication. the front eccentric bearing was wore almost through the copper on the bottom part(the top usuall suggest to tight of belts), the housings---well starting at the top of the trailing sparkplug hole all the way to the 2 small oil weep holes was heavily chromed. Suggesting wear. For a small distance pass the oil weep oils the housing had clatter marks but really had a nice dull finish to it.
Now pre mix I believe helps in performance and smoothness, but i am not so sure it really helps with lubrication that controls engine wear--the amount we use is not enough for that.
i found a lot of other stuff tooo but that is another story.
take it for what it is worth.
olddragger
It was very easy to see that there was a lack of lubrication. the front eccentric bearing was wore almost through the copper on the bottom part(the top usuall suggest to tight of belts), the housings---well starting at the top of the trailing sparkplug hole all the way to the 2 small oil weep holes was heavily chromed. Suggesting wear. For a small distance pass the oil weep oils the housing had clatter marks but really had a nice dull finish to it.
Now pre mix I believe helps in performance and smoothness, but i am not so sure it really helps with lubrication that controls engine wear--the amount we use is not enough for that.
i found a lot of other stuff tooo but that is another story.
take it for what it is worth.
olddragger
05-02-2008, 01:54 PM
#1238
road warrior
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I don't think pre-mix helps the bearings. Just the rotor seals right? The bearings have their own separate lubrication channels. Expo1 found the same bearing wear issue and Mazmart recommended increasing from 5w-20 oil to 10w-30 or 10w-40 to increase the lubrication of the bearings.
Last edited by LionZoo; 05-02-2008 at 01:57 PM.
05-02-2008, 02:19 PM
#1239
very true --i just threw the bearing finding in.
I have used 5/30 for approx 40K on this engine, i was the one that discovered some years ago after i installed gauges that 5w/20 would not even hold the factory recommended oil pressures---
i used a total synthetic 2 stroke oil for prelube--i have used several differrent brands. i was at one time-- for a short time --using a blend of lucus ucl and 2 stroke synthetic premix. I found out that didnt mix well.
I had all the flashs done as soon as i was aware of them which usualy wasnt long except for this last one. The times i was on the track the car used oil like everyone else but on the street it would use maybe 1 quart every 4-5K. I changed oil every 4-5K.
I also ran RPurple most of this time.
i used BK 44 twice a year--kept good plugs in her etc---never ran hot, never had a problem cranking, never flooded. Got fair gas milage.
I still believe just not enough lube to the rotors--and I just dont know what the answer is at this point. Maybe enlarge those little weep oils---step up the omp?
Maybe it is not lube but the housing coatings?
By the way ---i still premix!!
olddragger
I have used 5/30 for approx 40K on this engine, i was the one that discovered some years ago after i installed gauges that 5w/20 would not even hold the factory recommended oil pressures---
i used a total synthetic 2 stroke oil for prelube--i have used several differrent brands. i was at one time-- for a short time --using a blend of lucus ucl and 2 stroke synthetic premix. I found out that didnt mix well.I had all the flashs done as soon as i was aware of them which usualy wasnt long except for this last one. The times i was on the track the car used oil like everyone else but on the street it would use maybe 1 quart every 4-5K. I changed oil every 4-5K.
I also ran RPurple most of this time.
i used BK 44 twice a year--kept good plugs in her etc---never ran hot, never had a problem cranking, never flooded. Got fair gas milage.
I still believe just not enough lube to the rotors--and I just dont know what the answer is at this point. Maybe enlarge those little weep oils---step up the omp?
Maybe it is not lube but the housing coatings?
By the way ---i still premix!!
olddragger
05-02-2008, 02:41 PM
#1240
No offense to Jax but it's amazing how many Jax parrots there are out there now. "Squawk - lubricious", "Polly thinks your oil film is compromised", "Whistle - varnish and carbon deposits".
I know everyone is eager to help but please don't pretend you're experts. We're lucky to have someone who is knowledgeable in the area but for the rest of you don't give advice lest you'd like to be held liable.
I know everyone is eager to help but please don't pretend you're experts. We're lucky to have someone who is knowledgeable in the area but for the rest of you don't give advice lest you'd like to be held liable.
beers
05-02-2008, 05:17 PM
#1241
Registered
No offense to Jax but it's amazing how many Jax parrots there are out there now. "Squawk - lubricious", "Polly thinks your oil film is compromised", "Whistle - varnish and carbon deposits".
I know everyone is eager to help but please don't pretend you're experts. We're lucky to have someone who is knowledgeable in the area but for the rest of you don't give advice lest you'd like to be held liable.
I know everyone is eager to help but please don't pretend you're experts. We're lucky to have someone who is knowledgeable in the area but for the rest of you don't give advice lest you'd like to be held liable.
05-02-2008, 05:32 PM
#1243
You'll never be on the chain gang 
Well, I bought my first bottle of MMO today for 5.69 @ 28oz. I put about 5 or so oz in and the car runs the same, but I hope she lives longer.
Well, I bought my first bottle of MMO today for 5.69 @ 28oz. I put about 5 or so oz in and the car runs the same, but I hope she lives longer.
Last edited by fahrfegneugen; 05-02-2008 at 09:50 PM.
05-02-2008, 10:07 PM
#1244
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I noticed my car running smoother after premixing for a while. After this latest flash she runs even smoother but that could be a coincidence?
Don't know, and I'm not going to 'parrot' Jax or others, but based on the findings of many board members it appears the engine benefits from some premixing. I'll continue to do it, that's for sure.
05-02-2008, 10:13 PM
#1245
I really wanted to do it with it getting warmer outside, did you switch oil grade too? I was thinking about going to 5w30 on my next change.
I imagine it will take some time for the MMO to get into the engine and on the seals. I will see sooner or later.
I imagine it will take some time for the MMO to get into the engine and on the seals. I will see sooner or later.
05-04-2008, 10:49 AM
#1246
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Gas/oil Premix
Just returned from trip from St. Louis to Colorado, ran 87 octane fuel except in the mountain trips 91 there, premix 6oz. MMO every other tank, oil used engine 1.2qt. of castrol 5w20. Averaged 286 miles per tank except from Hays Ks. to Colorado springs their were some 100mph jaunts in there on I-24 (cmon it was fun passing the cowboys) 
Ran smooth the entire trip. Seemed a little slow to warm at altitude (longer than normal), 200 miles away from 60k warranty expiration, praying to the rotary God everything holds together for a long time.
Ran smooth the entire trip. Seemed a little slow to warm at altitude (longer than normal), 200 miles away from 60k warranty expiration, praying to the rotary God everything holds together for a long time.
Last edited by GR8T8; 05-04-2008 at 10:52 AM. Reason: update
05-04-2008, 02:54 PM
#1247
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I will continue to run 5W-30 until another weight is considered to be the best for this car.
05-06-2008, 08:43 PM
#1248
What are the Detes?
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Premix in a Piston Engine?
I have a premix question...a little bit different than most. I currently premix with about 3 oz. Idemitsu Premix and 1.5 oz. FP-60. I am thinking about selling my 8 and getting a car with a....piston engine. Anyway, I still have some of my premixed bottles left with the 3 oz/1.5 oz, and I was wondering if I should use it in my new ride or just junk it. I'll still use the FP-60 in the new ride, but the oil is the real question.
As a side note, I'll have about 1.5 quarts of Idemitsu Premix to give away if anyone in the Boston area wants to pick it up. Thanks.
Jon
As a side note, I'll have about 1.5 quarts of Idemitsu Premix to give away if anyone in the Boston area wants to pick it up. Thanks.
Jon
05-07-2008, 10:31 AM
#1249
I have a premix question...a little bit different than most. I currently premix with about 3 oz. Idemitsu Premix and 1.5 oz. FP-60. I am thinking about selling my 8 and getting a car with a....piston engine. Anyway, I still have some of my premixed bottles left with the 3 oz/1.5 oz, and I was wondering if I should use it in my new ride or just junk it. I'll still use the FP-60 in the new ride, but the oil is the real question.
As a side note, I'll have about 1.5 quarts of Idemitsu Premix to give away if anyone in the Boston area wants to pick it up. Thanks.
Jon
As a side note, I'll have about 1.5 quarts of Idemitsu Premix to give away if anyone in the Boston area wants to pick it up. Thanks.
Jon
seriuosly - you don't need it in a piston engine at all - giving it away to another rotary enthusiast would at least go some way towards your redemtion .
05-07-2008, 01:22 PM
#1250
What are the Detes?
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I totally agree on the pistons not needing what I got (more cowbell?). I'll be giving away the premix I still have in the 2 qt containers. Just don't know what to do with the "mixed" stuff I have (have it in little 6 oz. bottles). Can't just dump it down the drain.