Gas/Oil Premix Thread
12-08-2008, 12:22 PM
#1481
Lubricious
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in my observations it is better than dumping premix in the tank and filling it up. a lot better..
but i have to pull the pump and the other side, and wipe the inside of the tank down again to be sure..
this is a huge issue for those that premix, and do track days..
right now i would say dont dump and pump. if you do you will have fuel pump issues. i did and others do..
mix and fill at half tank then finish the fill, might be the answer. but right now i am running without premix. go figure..
beers
but i have to pull the pump and the other side, and wipe the inside of the tank down again to be sure..
this is a huge issue for those that premix, and do track days..
right now i would say dont dump and pump. if you do you will have fuel pump issues. i did and others do..
mix and fill at half tank then finish the fill, might be the answer. but right now i am running without premix. go figure..
beers
I'm sensing another advantage of a lighter oil and solvent mix like Marvel.
12-08-2008, 04:27 PM
#1484
Registered
Not exactly sure but I'd estimate at most 11-12k miles.
edit: If it makes any difference the pump ran fine until it got hot. Then it would cut in and out under heavy acceleration. Once it cooled it would run fine again.
edit: If it makes any difference the pump ran fine until it got hot. Then it would cut in and out under heavy acceleration. Once it cooled it would run fine again.
12-17-2008, 03:30 AM
#1486
I tend to think premixing is one of those old myths. But if rotary builders can see actual results from it I guess there could be something to it. But then again, people who premix in the first place are probably enthusiasts, and don't do oil changes every 10,000 miles that some of the other engines they open could be doing. Hard to say. I might want to do it just in case, will have to see which products are available here.
On the topic of cleaning, won't that BG44K cleanup clog up the cat?
On the topic of cleaning, won't that BG44K cleanup clog up the cat?
12-17-2008, 11:55 AM
#1487
Lubricious
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I wouldn't call it a myth. Before oil metering pumps, Mazda engines simply metered oil directly into the gas. So, that's got to be an effective mechanism for lubrication delivery. I'd really like to see some technical explanations of how that works though. You'd think the atomized oil would simply go *poof*. I mean, an atomized hydrocarbon in a compressed oxygen-rich atmosphere and a volatile fuel... surely it would just combust? Obviously not. For one thing that should disrupt the notion of "the oil needs to burn" -- hell, it needs to NOT burn! But more interesting is how does it manage to survive combustion and being swept out with the exhaust stroke and instead somehow deposit a useful film? That's a hell of a trick.
12-17-2008, 02:55 PM
#1489
3-wheeler
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On the flip side, you have restrictions such as environmental regulations as well as political issues like fuel mileage which all play into the mix. Why else would Mazda suggest 5w-20 for the US and 5w-30 for everywhere else? Why is it that Mazda at one time suggested 20w-50 for the RX7? The changes adapted to the needs of the market.
If Mazda had a handle on the motor, we wouldn't have seen the engine recalls we've seen. Those of us in hot climates wouldn't have had oiling issues under extreme temperatures. This doesn't mean it's a flawed product, but it means that mistakes were made and the system isn't perfect.
The fact is, the car is well designed but it's still designed by humans and it's forced to abide by standards and laws which might sacrifice long life in order to bring it to market.
The changes to the 2009 OMP suggest the need for an additional OMP nozzel. The motor is unchanged so there's clearly a lubrication need that wasn't being met.
Frankly I think the real question is not whether or not you should be pre-mixing but how much. How much would be determined by your driving habits, modifications, and whether you have accessport altered OMP values.
In the end, it's a personal choice. There's just no way after 100,000 miles we can look at a motor and say X caused this wear. It would require many constants such as keeping the same oil, same oil change intervals, same driving style and environment etc. We know that's impossible to duplicate outside of a lab.
Myself, I find it a cheap insurance should my OMP fail or there be a lubrication need not being met. I have 70,000 miles on my origional motor, origional tranny, and the car still feels great.
Last edited by Flashwing; 12-17-2008 at 03:03 PM.
12-17-2008, 03:00 PM
#1490
12-17-2008, 04:09 PM
#1491
...pondering...
Marvel Mystery Oil
Hey, can anyone tell me what the pros and cons of using Marvel Mystery Oil as a premix instead of 2 cycle engine oil? I like the idea of a lighter weight fluid which both cleans and lubricates but it seems like maybe there is a downside (too good to be true argument here)...
12-17-2008, 05:54 PM
#1492
If a) premix is necessary to prevent premature engine replacement (let's define "premature" as < 100K miles), and b) only 3% (?) of owners premix, then c) 97% of engines are being/will need to be replaced prematurely.
If my conclusion is incorrect—and I'm pretty sure it is—then 'a' or 'b' is wrong. My money is on 'a'.
If my conclusion is incorrect—and I'm pretty sure it is—then 'a' or 'b' is wrong. My money is on 'a'.
12-17-2008, 07:13 PM
#1493
I tend to think premixing is one of those old myths. But if rotary builders can see actual results from it I guess there could be something to it. But then again, people who premix in the first place are probably enthusiasts, and don't do oil changes every 10,000 miles that some of the other engines they open could be doing. Hard to say. I might want to do it just in case, will have to see which products are available here.
On the topic of cleaning, won't that BG44K cleanup clog up the cat?
On the topic of cleaning, won't that BG44K cleanup clog up the cat?
12-18-2008, 02:56 AM
#1494
What I meant was, if it cleans up the engine, will the resulting cleanup end up in the cat? Like, could there be some heavy **** in there that clogs it. I have no idea, so I'm asking :P
12-20-2008, 02:00 AM
#1497
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I wouldn't call it a myth. Before oil metering pumps, Mazda engines simply metered oil directly into the gas. So, that's got to be an effective mechanism for lubrication delivery. I'd really like to see some technical explanations of how that works though. You'd think the atomized oil would simply go *poof*. I mean, an atomized hydrocarbon in a compressed oxygen-rich atmosphere and a volatile fuel... surely it would just combust? Obviously not. For one thing that should disrupt the notion of "the oil needs to burn" -- hell, it needs to NOT burn! But more interesting is how does it manage to survive combustion and being swept out with the exhaust stroke and instead somehow deposit a useful film? That's a hell of a trick.
12-20-2008, 02:36 AM
#1498
Super Moderator
I wouldn't call it a myth. Before oil metering pumps, Mazda engines simply metered oil directly into the gas. So, that's got to be an effective mechanism for lubrication delivery. I'd really like to see some technical explanations of how that works though. You'd think the atomized oil would simply go *poof*. I mean, an atomized hydrocarbon in a compressed oxygen-rich atmosphere and a volatile fuel... surely it would just combust? Obviously not. For one thing that should disrupt the notion of "the oil needs to burn" -- hell, it needs to NOT burn! But more interesting is how does it manage to survive combustion and being swept out with the exhaust stroke and instead somehow deposit a useful film? That's a hell of a trick.
So technically it was not "mixed" in the liquid gas (Fuel) like pre-mixing done today via your gas tank.
