Gas/Oil Premix Thread
#1501
Guest
Posts: n/a
see link for oil lubrication, it's a british guy narrating, http://www.rotaryengineillustrated.c...tem.html:lol2:
#1502
I'm not sure if this has been posted before but thought it was interesting about MMO
http://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php?...81&postcount=9
now, I'm not saying MMO is insufficient, it does seem to have its followers even on the 7 forums. I've been playing with blends myself and there arent much differences between them (idemitsu, MMO, couple other combos)
http://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php?...81&postcount=9
now, I'm not saying MMO is insufficient, it does seem to have its followers even on the 7 forums. I've been playing with blends myself and there arent much differences between them (idemitsu, MMO, couple other combos)
Last edited by cjkim; 12-23-2008 at 01:13 AM.
#1503
Lubricious
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: SF Bay Area, California
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I'm not sure if this has been posted before but thought it was interesting about MMO
http://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php?...81&postcount=9
now, I'm not saying MMO is insufficient, it does seem to have its followers even on the 7 forums. I've been playing with blends myself and there arent much differences between them (idemitsu, MMO, couple other combos)
http://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php?...81&postcount=9
now, I'm not saying MMO is insufficient, it does seem to have its followers even on the 7 forums. I've been playing with blends myself and there arent much differences between them (idemitsu, MMO, couple other combos)
#1504
A nice step up!!!
I'm not sure if this has been posted before but thought it was interesting about MMO
http://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php?...81&postcount=9
now, I'm not saying MMO is insufficient, it does seem to have its followers even on the 7 forums. I've been playing with blends myself and there arent much differences between them (idemitsu, MMO, couple other combos)
http://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php?...81&postcount=9
now, I'm not saying MMO is insufficient, it does seem to have its followers even on the 7 forums. I've been playing with blends myself and there arent much differences between them (idemitsu, MMO, couple other combos)
#1506
Metatron
iTrader: (1)
I'm currently running an additive intended to replace the missing lubricity caused by removing the sulphur from 'low sulphur diesel'.
All short term experiments with premixes (premixi?) are dogged by the absolute lack of observable feedback - the result I'm looking for is a clean and shiny non-abraded housing at the end of my motors' (longer) life. There is no realistic way to tell what is happening without a motor tear-down.....
(Brettus - I thought 'god point' was very respectful!)
s
All short term experiments with premixes (premixi?) are dogged by the absolute lack of observable feedback - the result I'm looking for is a clean and shiny non-abraded housing at the end of my motors' (longer) life. There is no realistic way to tell what is happening without a motor tear-down.....
(Brettus - I thought 'god point' was very respectful!)
s
#1510
Registered
iTrader: (3)
it is best to premix the premix--its a pita, but its the best way to do it. just adding to the tank can cause a gooey mess for a little while. do your own demo.. put your premix in a see through jug--then add gas--with a simple pour as the gas entering the tank is not shooting in like a garden hose. you will see.
also with the ethanol being used now-- we will get more contaminants---better start figuring out the fuel filter.
Race teams (some) ditch the omp altogether. then they run 1 1/2 oz of premix/gal. yes i do mean the rx8
olddragger
also with the ethanol being used now-- we will get more contaminants---better start figuring out the fuel filter.
Race teams (some) ditch the omp altogether. then they run 1 1/2 oz of premix/gal. yes i do mean the rx8
olddragger
#1511
Banned
iTrader: (3)
Uh, no.
First of all, there is no evidence that ethanol is a contaminant or that it conveys contaminants.
It is no more corrosive in pump concentrations than straight gasoline.
It has no practical effect on premix oils that are fully miscible.
Adding the premix to a tank and then filling up is not comparable to the experiment above.
If you want a more accurate comparison, get a 5 gallon pail, put one gallon of gas in it, pour in 5 oz of your 2-cycle oil of choice and then pour 4 more gallons into the bucket from a height of two feet at a rate of 1 gallon every 15 seconds.
What you will get is 100% dilution.
First of all, there is no evidence that ethanol is a contaminant or that it conveys contaminants.
It is no more corrosive in pump concentrations than straight gasoline.
It has no practical effect on premix oils that are fully miscible.
Adding the premix to a tank and then filling up is not comparable to the experiment above.
If you want a more accurate comparison, get a 5 gallon pail, put one gallon of gas in it, pour in 5 oz of your 2-cycle oil of choice and then pour 4 more gallons into the bucket from a height of two feet at a rate of 1 gallon every 15 seconds.
What you will get is 100% dilution.
#1513
Super Moderator
But please I am willing to retract, what ratio and what brand/type of pre-mix were you using, can you supply any pics?
#1514
Zoom-Freakin'-Zoom
iTrader: (5)
it is best to premix the premix--its a pita, but its the best way to do it. just adding to the tank can cause a gooey mess for a little while. do your own demo.. put your premix in a see through jug--then add gas--with a simple pour as the gas entering the tank is not shooting in like a garden hose. you will see.
also with the ethanol being used now-- we will get more contaminants---better start figuring out the fuel filter.
Race teams (some) ditch the omp altogether. then they run 1 1/2 oz of premix/gal. yes i do mean the rx8
olddragger
also with the ethanol being used now-- we will get more contaminants---better start figuring out the fuel filter.
Race teams (some) ditch the omp altogether. then they run 1 1/2 oz of premix/gal. yes i do mean the rx8
olddragger
but also it depends on the oil / premix you dump in the tank.
premixing the premix is a very good idea. but what do i know..
beers
![Beer](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/beer.gif)
#1515
Registered
iTrader: (3)
me too-- i know nothing!!!
but i can repeat these things
ethanol--dissolves and loosens any corrosion(maybe we dont have any?)
it can react with mtbe fuel blends--if there is any left?
attracts and absorbs water--no water in gas station tanks are there?
yamaha advises if ethanol is used to carry extra filters with you!(boating--motorcycles etc)
gas companies make a point to say that gas (with ethanol) in the tank should be replaced every 2-3 wks--not a prob--right!
plastic and rubber lines are vulnerable-- do we have those?
advise that if ethanol is used to choose an octane above 91---why is that?
once source even advises to install a water separation filter.
premixing with ethanol in the gas will cause free water in the tank. ethanol actually dissolves the oil displacing the water associated with ethaol/gas blend--probably a small amount--but some non the less.
i could go on--but what is the point? Just remember that ethanol in your gas--changes the gas you are running. it aint doomsday and yes you can run the 10% ethanol--you will get less gas mileage and performance
on the pouring the pre mix in--if your low gas light is on how deep do you think the gas is in your tank? MM has a good point and like I have always advocated (but not 100% practiced myself) keep the tank at least 1/2 full at all times. If you do and then you add the pre mix --you have adequate fuel in the tank to diluted the oil.
OD
but i can repeat these things
ethanol--dissolves and loosens any corrosion(maybe we dont have any?)
it can react with mtbe fuel blends--if there is any left?
attracts and absorbs water--no water in gas station tanks are there?
yamaha advises if ethanol is used to carry extra filters with you!(boating--motorcycles etc)
gas companies make a point to say that gas (with ethanol) in the tank should be replaced every 2-3 wks--not a prob--right!
plastic and rubber lines are vulnerable-- do we have those?
advise that if ethanol is used to choose an octane above 91---why is that?
once source even advises to install a water separation filter.
premixing with ethanol in the gas will cause free water in the tank. ethanol actually dissolves the oil displacing the water associated with ethaol/gas blend--probably a small amount--but some non the less.
i could go on--but what is the point? Just remember that ethanol in your gas--changes the gas you are running. it aint doomsday and yes you can run the 10% ethanol--you will get less gas mileage and performance
on the pouring the pre mix in--if your low gas light is on how deep do you think the gas is in your tank? MM has a good point and like I have always advocated (but not 100% practiced myself) keep the tank at least 1/2 full at all times. If you do and then you add the pre mix --you have adequate fuel in the tank to diluted the oil.
OD
#1517
Registered
iTrader: (7)
Off the IdemitsuWebsite
Dear Idemitsu,
Once again, I would like to thank IDEMITSU for providing us a product that is outstanding. Serious engine builders and tuners now have IDEMITSU lubricants that can withstand extreme torture and stress without adding costly additives and stabilizers.
Moving from All Motor to Modified in the NHRA Sport Compact Drag Racing Series, I have had to develop considerably more power (From just over 300 RWHP to close to 1,000 RWHP) with the same 13B engine and the addition of a turbo charger. The results from the R&D, testing and racing we have completed to date have proved beyond our shadow of a doubt that your lubricants “can take the heat”.
I am amazed that each time we inspect our engines & turbo chargers; we have no wear at all associated with the lubricated components. This “peace of mind” permits this team to race with confidence as was the case with our first Modified win August 21, 2005 at Moroso Motorsports Park.
Thank you IDEMITSU for providing usOff the Shelf lubricants that meet and exceed our expectations.
Dear Idemitsu,
Once again, I would like to thank IDEMITSU for providing us a product that is outstanding. Serious engine builders and tuners now have IDEMITSU lubricants that can withstand extreme torture and stress without adding costly additives and stabilizers.
Moving from All Motor to Modified in the NHRA Sport Compact Drag Racing Series, I have had to develop considerably more power (From just over 300 RWHP to close to 1,000 RWHP) with the same 13B engine and the addition of a turbo charger. The results from the R&D, testing and racing we have completed to date have proved beyond our shadow of a doubt that your lubricants “can take the heat”.
I am amazed that each time we inspect our engines & turbo chargers; we have no wear at all associated with the lubricated components. This “peace of mind” permits this team to race with confidence as was the case with our first Modified win August 21, 2005 at Moroso Motorsports Park.
Thank you IDEMITSU for providing usOff the Shelf lubricants that meet and exceed our expectations.
#1518
Polish-American Hammarrrr
Join Date: Oct 2008
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And now the introduction of the improved "Series II" RX-8 raises even more questions, especially with regard to how much impact the additional oil injector per rotor will have?
The additional injector is "16X" tech, and has probably been in development for some time.
I can't find any station in my area that's not selling gas with "up to 10% ethanol" in it. If I buy a new (2010) RX-8 next year, I don't think I'm going to use premix. Hopefully the 3rd injector and frequent oil changes using Idemitsu's rotary oil will be sufficient.
The additional injector is "16X" tech, and has probably been in development for some time.
I can't find any station in my area that's not selling gas with "up to 10% ethanol" in it. If I buy a new (2010) RX-8 next year, I don't think I'm going to use premix. Hopefully the 3rd injector and frequent oil changes using Idemitsu's rotary oil will be sufficient.
#1519
Boosted Kiwi
iTrader: (2)
Hi mate, can you please elaborate, yes I could see that your Rotor housing Face (where apex seals touch) would be clean and shinny, but I have trouble believing that your rotors would be clean as new, I have never seen a perfectly clean used rotor...virtually impossible..
But please I am willing to retract, what ratio and what brand/type of pre-mix were you using, can you supply any pics?
But please I am willing to retract, what ratio and what brand/type of pre-mix were you using, can you supply any pics?
Have used a variety of premixes - in various ratios but of late around 200:1 to 250:1
#1520
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Fawk this thread is so back and forth. What is the most cost effective method of premixing (which storebought brand is sufficient) and how much of that premix do i add each fillup. I made it through the first 10 pages or so but seriously I think a mod should go through and delete the useless banter.
#1521
Registered
For lubrication and cleaning, the simplest, most cost-effective option is MMO, 5 oz per fill-up.
As long as no one comes along and says it's snake oil, you're good to go and won't have to worry about multiple opinions. BTW, it's not what I use ...
As long as no one comes along and says it's snake oil, you're good to go and won't have to worry about multiple opinions. BTW, it's not what I use ...
#1522
Lubricious
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: SF Bay Area, California
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Fawk this thread is so back and forth. What is the most cost effective method of premixing (which storebought brand is sufficient) and how much of that premix do i add each fillup. I made it through the first 10 pages or so but seriously I think a mod should go through and delete the useless banter.
Read, baby, READ!
![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
For what it's worth (not much I suppose), I use MMO. I have a used MMO quart bottle which I've marked off with a permanent marker at 6oz intervals. The long neck works well for getting the premix into the tank with as little fuss as possible. I usually add 6oz per fillup if I'm getting a full fill of 13 gallons or so (which I usually do). Otherwise I try to adjust to a similar ratio. I refill the quart bottle from a Gallon container, which runs about $18-20 U.S.. So that's about $1 per fillup and close to 5000 miles between buying gallons. The quart bottle sits nicely in my passthrough compartment alongside my spare quart of oil and some shop rags.
Last edited by Nubo; 12-29-2008 at 12:42 PM.
#1524
Lenin in Disguise
Join Date: Mar 2008
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There was another thread where someone had stated (I apologize but I can't remember where or who) that the ethanol would break down any 2 cycle oil you put into your gas tank at the time of fillup and seperate the water out of it.
I would imagine myself as I've been doing this for a year now and haven't had any water in the gas problems that it would probably affect it as such if left for a longer period of time than a week or so, but I burn through a tank in a week usually, two at the most and have never had a problem myself.
I also read in another thread (again I can't remember which one it was or who said it) that the ethanol wasn't good on the apex seals (they did not specify the ethanol itself or possible detonation) but either way, assuming we're talking about just a pure chemical composition problem, I would say that the premix would be a huge boon to our engines if in fact the ethanol is chemically hard on the metal used for the apex seals.
Just my 2 cents from what I've read and seen.
I would imagine myself as I've been doing this for a year now and haven't had any water in the gas problems that it would probably affect it as such if left for a longer period of time than a week or so, but I burn through a tank in a week usually, two at the most and have never had a problem myself.
I also read in another thread (again I can't remember which one it was or who said it) that the ethanol wasn't good on the apex seals (they did not specify the ethanol itself or possible detonation) but either way, assuming we're talking about just a pure chemical composition problem, I would say that the premix would be a huge boon to our engines if in fact the ethanol is chemically hard on the metal used for the apex seals.
Just my 2 cents from what I've read and seen.
![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#1525
BEST PREMIX BUY EVARRRR
went to autozone to stock up on some premix...
looked at: "Mobil 1 Racing 2T" (haven't tried this brand yet so i thought i'd give it a try) and it rang up for....
$.01 EACH
Full Synthetic.. API TC, JASO FC(proposed), ISO-L-EGD cerified... sounds good to me
granted its not JASO FD, but the difference is the level of detergents. i mix detergents in anyways, so no biggie.
needless to say, i cleared out the store (even though it was just 3)
moral of the story: check your autozones, these are being discontinued, so they may ring up very cheap. obviously, YMMV!!
went to autozone to stock up on some premix...
looked at: "Mobil 1 Racing 2T" (haven't tried this brand yet so i thought i'd give it a try) and it rang up for....
$.01 EACH
Full Synthetic.. API TC, JASO FC(proposed), ISO-L-EGD cerified... sounds good to me
granted its not JASO FD, but the difference is the level of detergents. i mix detergents in anyways, so no biggie.
needless to say, i cleared out the store (even though it was just 3)
moral of the story: check your autozones, these are being discontinued, so they may ring up very cheap. obviously, YMMV!!
Last edited by cjkim; 01-07-2009 at 07:25 PM.