Chad D.

iTrader: (19)

/\ I don't have that mod!

jmc23200

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the coloring or the scent that is added. Marketing toward females with a nice smelling product and a pretty color. I say just deliver the goods without this crap.

plain ole wanker

Sounds like these guys with oil color issues need to stay away from royal purple.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I'll give you a hint, this is from BITOG. And yes it's better because this guy is a professional with 35 years of experience in testing oils and additives. Not to mention the fact that he states its a solvent with a low flash point so how could it possibly lubricate in the combustion process if it burns at 200F or so?

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Again, he states its a solvent that has a low flash point so how could it possibly lubricate anything during the combustion process? I'm no scientist, just using common sense but if you can explain how I am all ears.

kennyfrc1

iTrader: (6)

MMO should not be used for Premix.

Amsoil Saber FTW

Chad D.

iTrader: (19)

mmo? reviews...

http://www.expotv.com/videos/reviews...yOil16oz/47984

I can't find Amsoil Saber FTW in too many places, though I have used it before w/o hesitation.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Oh but Kenny, now you have to prove it doesn't work as a premix because some forum members here and on the BITOG forums say it does wok as a premix. And supposedly there is some proof somewhere that it is a very good lubricant and is great as a premix. Even though two of the three ingredients listed on the MSDS sheet are a type of solvent.

jmc23200

A flash point is the LOWEST possible temperature that a liquid can vaporize and create an ignitable mixture in air. For reference Gas' flash point is -40F.

MMO's flash point is 160F. This would just vaporize in the oil system at normal operating temps. That is why it has poor reviews when mixed with oil, and the fact that it dilutes the oil.

The reason why it is a poor oil additive is the reason it's a good gas additive.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

So now your saying it is not good as a oil additive but it is as a premix? Wow, you guys really love this stuff.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Okay I found some data from MMO. Not very specific as teh components have many uses and formulation but 70-80% is naphthenic oil.


POSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS

COMPONENT CAS NUMBER CONCENTRATION (wt %)
Naphthenic Hydrocarbons 64742-52-5 70 – 80
Mineral Spirits 08052-41-3 20 – 30
Chlorinated Hydrocarbons 00095-50-1 0 – 1

kennyfrc1

iTrader: (6)

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

I don't know a single race team or enigne buidler that would advocate the use of MMO..........

robrecht

I don't doubt this guy's experience as an oil analyst, but, again, he is speaking very generally about the effect of MMO as it dillutes oil when added to the crankcase, not when added as a fuel additive. He doesn't give here the results of a specific analysis of MMO and the chemical make-up of it's components and their relative percentages, let alone how they act when added to gasoline, which itself is a pretty strong solvent.

I think some people who recommend MMO as a fuel additive (not as an oil additive) actually like the fact that the solvents vaporize in the cylinder/combustion chamber as it is thought to have the same kind (but on a much smaller scale) of vapor blast effect as when you decarbon an engine with Seafoam or the Mazda version of Seafoam. Actually, water is said to have a stronger blast effect because it does not compress much, but without the supposed chemical cleaning properties. I have used both on old piston engines to remove carbon deposits when compression readings were high. But my preferred method is to do a piston soak to chemically dissolve carbon and soften remaining deposits and then use water to add a stronger blast cleaning effect on remaining carbon deposits. Other than soaking in solvents, I'm not really sure of the vaporizing/combustion effect that some people speak of with such solvents, just thought I'd mention it because I have seen this mentioned by others who presumably know much more than me. Other explanations also seem plausible to me but I will refrain from further displays of my own ignorance.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

as stated on the track i will not use MMO. On the street I am comfortable with it as stated 70-80% of it is mineral oil. it does have a lower flash point---thats not a reall bad thing for premix? Think about it. All oil is going to burn during the combustion process--MMO does not leave behind any residue. It helps slightly with lubrication as a SUPPORT for the omp. It is not meant to substitute for the omp. Plus it will not affect the injectors.
If you run 1 oz of 2 cycle oil per gallon of gas then do you need the omp? I know if you run 1.5 oz/gal you dont need the omp. So maybe too much oil is in the combustion chamber? What is the result of that?
Now I am open minded about everything and if Kenny has some scientific proof showing what is good and what is not then I will certainly try to learn. I do know he is really good at this stuff and i will listen.
Looking forward to seeing this Tim.
OD

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I too have been thinking about too much oil in the combustion chamber as my car seems to drink from the SOHN reservoir like a drunken Irishman. Which is weird because I am on my third engine and each one has always consumed a lot of oil (maybe the PCM?) but I have always heard that is a good thing.

Now premixing the gas and running the SOHN combined with a catless mid pipe has produced the blackest exhaust tips known to man. So me, ultra fine steel wool, and Brasso have become well acquainted

I run 5.25OZ of Lucas at fill-up.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

I've been running with MMO for 15k or so. I haven't noticed any issues.

I got 122k on the clock not sure how many engines the cars had. Mazdatrix is going check it out and see if anything needs fixing while i still have my extended warranty...

Maybe I can get a shot of the internals so we can see what 15k of premixing MMO has done.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah they should be able to pull the valve covers off and see how the lifters look.

plain ole wanker

If you didn't have a shot of internals before the 15k of MMO use how are going to know what MMO did or didn't do?

jmc23200

I never said it was a good oil additive....... only said it was a decent premix. I'm no fan boy, just someone who sees good results from a lot of hands on experience. When I got my 8, I had a horrible vibration at idle, added 5oz MMO and it was gone. I'm open to any better premix out there, hence me buying a case of Idemitsu from the GB.

I believe, like Seafoam, it can be added to your oil. I would only do it to clean out any carbon and it would be very brief. I would add it to the oil, drive it hard for 10-20 minutes, then change the oil. Personally, I would use seafoam for this over MMO. MMO is just easy to get, has a good reputation, and has worked for me in the past. Like I said, I have idemitsu on the way. You wanna fight about it


Edit: Low flash point for a gas additive helps prevent fouling of plugs..... just sayin. Also, might as well add this in Polaris synthetic 2-cycle oil a.k.a Protek R. Another decent premix, unless I missed something.

plain ole wanker

In my simple mind this is the way I break it down.


Facts
1.When moving metal objects are in contact with each other oil is required to reduce the coefficient of friction and heat.
2.From oil and gas combustion creates carbon (bad for engines good for Al Gore).


My MMO findings


Positives


1.Cheap
2.available locally
3.it is oily (addresses point 1) and this stuff is slick as ****. Try keeping it in a bottle turned on its side from getting out. You can't it magically comes out. Can anyone explain why?
4.When WD 40 takes squeaks out from my bicycle chain and million other squeaks this supports fact1.
I and other people claim the same thing happens when MMO is used in gas tanks. Engines idle quieter and weird engine noises go away.
5 it has low flash point (address point 2)
6.I like the color red, purple and blue


Negatives


1.Any history of destroying any engines since 1923? Anyone? I would have thought someone would have proved something bad by now.
2.People call it snake oil with no evidence for its claims are all anecdotal evidence
3.No hard core sampling to prove what it is.
4.No proof to its claims on the bottle.
5.smells like peppermint ( I don't like peppermint)

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

jmc232200,

No, I never said you said it was a good oil additive but that is just what it is marketed as and what many people swear it does best. I am happy you are buying Idemitsu and not using the Mystery Oil anymore. And yes I want to fight Put up your dukes

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

You area a marketers wet dream.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

I want to fight to----what are we fighting about???????? yaaaaaaaaa!!!!
no hitting in the face ok? hehehehe.
a product that hasnt changed its name in 23 yrs has to be something?
OD

always.anthony

i understand both sides here. but simple as it is. mmo is readily available, cheap, and if not helps as much as a good 2 stroke, it helps a teeeeeny bit

robrecht

I agree! Stay away from products that advertize themselves as a "tune-up in a bottle" and make vague and unrealistic claims to 'increase power', 'decreases fuel consumption and emissions' and whose MSDS only lists a very vague description of one ingredient. "Before going to the shop with an engine that is smoking or low on power, we suggest that you try adding about a half a gallon of our treatment ... This is often all it needs!"

Hmmm ... don't tell 9k, or he might have to stop premixing with Lucas UCL.