Gas/Oil Premix Thread
but, at least I can spell.
01-19-2010, 10:45 PM
#2132
Registered
OK you asked for it
I have no idea wtf this thread is even about. This topic started almost 6 years ago and has 18 quadbillion pages of who knows what. If the issue hasn't been solved yet I'm 1,000% positive I can't offer anything of value.
Based on the thread title (and I have not and will not read all these posts) I think the thread has something to do with premix added to gas. Here is what I know:
-We removed our OMPs on all our motors. These are/were used car motors, new Mazda crate engines, rebuilt motors, built from scratch motors and full race motors (lots of attention to detail, new parts, balancing, and TLC). We have no OMPs in the building. If someone threw one at me I couldn't tell you what it was. The most I've ever spent on an engine rebuild by probably the best (and most expensive and respected rotary guy in the business--Daryl Drummond) is 8K. Every once and a while I run something by Daryl that I read on this forum and laugh about and he gives me an incredibly long history about how the motor started and the evolution of it. I might get in trouble for saying this but he MIGHT get engines from Japan before the actual cars arrive here in the U.S. These type 1 and 2 engines might just get torn down, examined, tested, engine dyno'd but you didn't hear me say that and I'll deny it and tell the FBI that somebody hacked this forum and typed fake works in my post.
-I've never heard of any oil related failure in the road racing market with the Renesis that is or was remotely related to premix choice, incorrect premix portioning, oiling any part of the engine, engine component failure.
-The 5 best engine builders in the nation that I've talked to (and each acknowledges the others as being in the top tier group) have never said anything related to oil and engine demise.
-If you ask engine builders what oil or weight or both is the best you get just as many answers.
-Daryl has offered that he has never heard nor seen oil failure or premix related failures. He often told me that the Pro Formula Mazda guys that blow their engines forget to check their oil and the engines go kaboom (which I think is totally funny).
-The only thing that SpeedSource has told me repeatedly was they had to add oil to their engines during the longer 6 hour Grand-Am race at VIR. I was told 1 qt.
-SpeedSource has and is adding 1 oz. of premix to each gallon of fuel. Same for thier 3 rotor. They have never suggested any other % and have told me it really doesn't matter.
-I think the oil analysis thread is a secret conduit to outerspace and interplanetary wormhole travel. If you stare at the first post for 42.7 hours you will be teleported to the planet zoomzoom where Conan O'Brian will tell you the proper height to run your dipstick.
-Daryl offers that 1 oz/gal. is all you need
-Paul Yaw did a test with several 2 cycle oils and burnt them down in a petri dish and measured the amount of residue. Golden Spectro had the smallest amounts of leftover residue. He concluded that using this oil premix leaves the smallest leftovers.
-Paul did offer a different measurment ratio: drum rolll.............. 1.5 oz. / same diff. David Haskill said this was fine but they use 1 oz. per.
-We have calico coated some bearings and stopped doing it because there was zero bearning wear
-Running these engines at 9,000 rpms makes the rotors wobble and upon tear down you can see witness marks on the irons (which I know many of you smart guys know on this forum). This leads to scored sealing surface(s) and reduced compression. There is no power up there.
-Seafoam works.
-I know a lot of higher ups at Mazda and we've talked about operating these motors in a racing environment and NEVER has the work premix or oil or both come up as a problem or similar.
-I have concluded that no magic wand exists to make these engines as reliable as piston motors. And this is all my opinion. There are too many posts of people looking at micro issues thinking that they will unlock the secret of this motor, produce more power, increase mpg, last forever and beat turbo supra's in the 1/4 mile. The engine is what it is. Change your oil every 3K or so (not 3,046 miles if you live west of arizona and its below 78 degrees F or whatever). It's an engine. Gas goes in. Air goes in. Spark. Boom. Exhaust. Oil and water to cool it. A tire wears out. These engines wear out. Roof shingles wear out. You can do some things to slow the rate of failure down but they wear out.
I have no idea if I'm even close to the topic because I didn't and won't read all these pages. My intent is not to debate any of this and since I'm probably off the mark here please don't respond to pollute this thread for others. Feel free to yell at me directly if you want to call me an ***, a jagoff or tell me that I'm stupid and don't know what I'm talking about because your brother's next door neighbor was once in the Mazda Tech Program and told you XYZ until he severed his neck doing a 3 rotor swap into the glove box on a blue Shinka but he doesn't work there anymore and now manages an Applebees in Toledo and can't talk about all that stuff because the secret ninjas at the rx8 factory lurk in the trees in his backyard.
you are welcome to find my email and contact me by going here: www.meyer-motorsports.com
Happy rotoring.
I have no idea wtf this thread is even about. This topic started almost 6 years ago and has 18 quadbillion pages of who knows what. If the issue hasn't been solved yet I'm 1,000% positive I can't offer anything of value.
Based on the thread title (and I have not and will not read all these posts) I think the thread has something to do with premix added to gas. Here is what I know:
-We removed our OMPs on all our motors. These are/were used car motors, new Mazda crate engines, rebuilt motors, built from scratch motors and full race motors (lots of attention to detail, new parts, balancing, and TLC). We have no OMPs in the building. If someone threw one at me I couldn't tell you what it was. The most I've ever spent on an engine rebuild by probably the best (and most expensive and respected rotary guy in the business--Daryl Drummond) is 8K. Every once and a while I run something by Daryl that I read on this forum and laugh about and he gives me an incredibly long history about how the motor started and the evolution of it. I might get in trouble for saying this but he MIGHT get engines from Japan before the actual cars arrive here in the U.S. These type 1 and 2 engines might just get torn down, examined, tested, engine dyno'd but you didn't hear me say that and I'll deny it and tell the FBI that somebody hacked this forum and typed fake works in my post.
-I've never heard of any oil related failure in the road racing market with the Renesis that is or was remotely related to premix choice, incorrect premix portioning, oiling any part of the engine, engine component failure.
-The 5 best engine builders in the nation that I've talked to (and each acknowledges the others as being in the top tier group) have never said anything related to oil and engine demise.
-If you ask engine builders what oil or weight or both is the best you get just as many answers.
-Daryl has offered that he has never heard nor seen oil failure or premix related failures. He often told me that the Pro Formula Mazda guys that blow their engines forget to check their oil and the engines go kaboom (which I think is totally funny).
-The only thing that SpeedSource has told me repeatedly was they had to add oil to their engines during the longer 6 hour Grand-Am race at VIR. I was told 1 qt.
-SpeedSource has and is adding 1 oz. of premix to each gallon of fuel. Same for thier 3 rotor. They have never suggested any other % and have told me it really doesn't matter.
-I think the oil analysis thread is a secret conduit to outerspace and interplanetary wormhole travel. If you stare at the first post for 42.7 hours you will be teleported to the planet zoomzoom where Conan O'Brian will tell you the proper height to run your dipstick.
-Daryl offers that 1 oz/gal. is all you need
-Paul Yaw did a test with several 2 cycle oils and burnt them down in a petri dish and measured the amount of residue. Golden Spectro had the smallest amounts of leftover residue. He concluded that using this oil premix leaves the smallest leftovers.
-Paul did offer a different measurment ratio: drum rolll.............. 1.5 oz. / same diff. David Haskill said this was fine but they use 1 oz. per.
-We have calico coated some bearings and stopped doing it because there was zero bearning wear
-Running these engines at 9,000 rpms makes the rotors wobble and upon tear down you can see witness marks on the irons (which I know many of you smart guys know on this forum). This leads to scored sealing surface(s) and reduced compression. There is no power up there.
-Seafoam works.
-I know a lot of higher ups at Mazda and we've talked about operating these motors in a racing environment and NEVER has the work premix or oil or both come up as a problem or similar.
-I have concluded that no magic wand exists to make these engines as reliable as piston motors. And this is all my opinion. There are too many posts of people looking at micro issues thinking that they will unlock the secret of this motor, produce more power, increase mpg, last forever and beat turbo supra's in the 1/4 mile. The engine is what it is. Change your oil every 3K or so (not 3,046 miles if you live west of arizona and its below 78 degrees F or whatever). It's an engine. Gas goes in. Air goes in. Spark. Boom. Exhaust. Oil and water to cool it. A tire wears out. These engines wear out. Roof shingles wear out. You can do some things to slow the rate of failure down but they wear out.
I have no idea if I'm even close to the topic because I didn't and won't read all these pages. My intent is not to debate any of this and since I'm probably off the mark here please don't respond to pollute this thread for others. Feel free to yell at me directly if you want to call me an ***, a jagoff or tell me that I'm stupid and don't know what I'm talking about because your brother's next door neighbor was once in the Mazda Tech Program and told you XYZ until he severed his neck doing a 3 rotor swap into the glove box on a blue Shinka but he doesn't work there anymore and now manages an Applebees in Toledo and can't talk about all that stuff because the secret ninjas at the rx8 factory lurk in the trees in his backyard.
you are welcome to find my email and contact me by going here: www.meyer-motorsports.com
Happy rotoring.
01-19-2010, 10:59 PM
#2133
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Classic Eric 
So basically what your saying is we should all yank out or OMP pumps and run 1oz per gallon premix. Gotcha!! 
J/K
Thanks for the input. So I think 1/2oz per gallon for the street of a good 2 stroke should be fine.
So basically what your saying is we should all yank out or OMP pumps and run 1oz per gallon premix. Gotcha!! J/KThanks for the input. So I think 1/2oz per gallon for the street of a good 2 stroke should be fine.
01-19-2010, 11:25 PM
#2134
feel free to yell at me directly if you want to call me an ***, a jagoff or tell me that i'm stupid and don't know what i'm talking about because your brother's next door neighbor was once in the mazda tech program and told you xyz until he severed his neck doing a 3 rotor swap into the glove box on a blue shinka but he doesn't work there anymore and now manages an applebees in toledo and can't talk about all that stuff because the secret ninjas at the rx8 factory lurk in the trees in his backyard.
so much win!
Last edited by 05rex8; 01-20-2010 at 02:45 PM.
01-19-2010, 11:33 PM
#2135
Wow! After that I forgot, too. .........hmmm
Oh yeah, if MMO is maybe 25% mineral spirits (varsol) with 110 degree f flash, and about 75%napthenic hydrocarbons to end up with 160 degree f flash point, MMO could be mixed by using a heavy fuel oil #6 with flash around 200 f
In other words to mix MMO your own get some thick bunker fuel heating oil and cut it with solvent.
I like 2t motorcycle oils, and use Mobil 2t racing which is about same viscosity as Mobil 1 0w40 @ 100 degree c (13.8), but has flash at 110 degree c.
So, if I use 4oz per fillup of 2T approx 12 gals., I'd have to use 5-6 oz of MMO to get the same amount of oil on the apex seals.
I like gasoline with a flash of approx -30 degrees f to be the solvent and cleaner instead of varsol which is mostly for safety reasons.
Oh yeah, if MMO is maybe 25% mineral spirits (varsol) with 110 degree f flash, and about 75%napthenic hydrocarbons to end up with 160 degree f flash point, MMO could be mixed by using a heavy fuel oil #6 with flash around 200 f
In other words to mix MMO your own get some thick bunker fuel heating oil and cut it with solvent.
I like 2t motorcycle oils, and use Mobil 2t racing which is about same viscosity as Mobil 1 0w40 @ 100 degree c (13.8), but has flash at 110 degree c.
So, if I use 4oz per fillup of 2T approx 12 gals., I'd have to use 5-6 oz of MMO to get the same amount of oil on the apex seals.
I like gasoline with a flash of approx -30 degrees f to be the solvent and cleaner instead of varsol which is mostly for safety reasons.
01-20-2010, 06:17 AM
#2139
Nature vs. Nurture
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Eric, I have never laughed so hard and long at anything on the internet; and probably never learned so much! Thank you. I now turn my OCD to another subject like muffler bearings and solve my problems there.
followed by 
adding insult to injury since 1987
01-20-2010, 11:42 AM
#2142
Eric --thats classic.
But what about the bearing wear that is being seen in multiple engines? Maybe not in racing engines but in DD engines it is seen a lot. Premix doesnt have anything to do with that though.
Totally agree on the omp thoughts---thats why I choose MMO, seals dont need that much help and the cleaning properties of the mmo when used consistantly is really good and in addition to my w/m injection its even better.
Racing Beat did do a study showing repeatable better sealing with a higher ratio of premix(increase hp by 1-2) but that was only in the higher rpms ----like racing. I believe it was at 1 1/2oz per gallon. But, for DD i think that is too much and the lower rpms of DD may not be able to get rid of all that oil.
Totally right--it is what it is--just take care of it.
OD
But what about the bearing wear that is being seen in multiple engines? Maybe not in racing engines but in DD engines it is seen a lot. Premix doesnt have anything to do with that though.
Totally agree on the omp thoughts---thats why I choose MMO, seals dont need that much help and the cleaning properties of the mmo when used consistantly is really good and in addition to my w/m injection its even better.
Racing Beat did do a study showing repeatable better sealing with a higher ratio of premix(increase hp by 1-2) but that was only in the higher rpms ----like racing. I believe it was at 1 1/2oz per gallon. But, for DD i think that is too much and the lower rpms of DD may not be able to get rid of all that oil.
Totally right--it is what it is--just take care of it.
OD
01-20-2010, 12:43 PM
#2143
Lubricious
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: SF Bay Area, California
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4.When WD 40 takes squeaks out from my bicycle chain and million other squeaks this supports fact1.
...
Negatives
...
5.smells like peppermint ( I don't like peppermint)
Negatives
...
5.smells like peppermint ( I don't like peppermint)
01-20-2010, 05:09 PM
#2146
You go first.
I've delivered mineral spirits, gas, diesel, oil, etc., and mineral spirits will burn you all the way down to your nuts even after your bath.
They even label it for weed killer.
I've delivered mineral spirits, gas, diesel, oil, etc., and mineral spirits will burn you all the way down to your nuts even after your bath.
They even label it for weed killer.
01-21-2010, 07:03 AM
#2149
Registered
Uh, no.
Adding the premix to a tank and then filling up is not comparable to the experiment above.
If you want a more accurate comparison, get a 5 gallon pail, put one gallon of gas in it, pour in 5 oz of your 2-cycle oil of choice and then pour 4 more gallons into the bucket from a height of two feet at a rate of 1 gallon every 15 seconds.
What you will get is 100% dilution.
Adding the premix to a tank and then filling up is not comparable to the experiment above.
If you want a more accurate comparison, get a 5 gallon pail, put one gallon of gas in it, pour in 5 oz of your 2-cycle oil of choice and then pour 4 more gallons into the bucket from a height of two feet at a rate of 1 gallon every 15 seconds.
What you will get is 100% dilution.
We use this method:
We use Lucas Oil 2.1 stroke oil (2.1 is a bit better than regular 2 stroke). We then tow our race cars to the local gas pump behind my Chevy Suburban being careful to use E85 in the Suburban and revving it to 9,000 rpm for 27.1 seconds before we engage the tow strap to tow the race car. Team told me this (thanks Team).
Upon arrival to the gas pumps we orient the car so it faces true North (this is what the service bulletin 24.7.BR549 says) and its also proper Fung-shwei. Using our 3rd Sham-wow (the extra bonus sham-wow you get when you "ACT now, operators are here to help you" we take the Premium fuel pump and shoot an arc of fuel in the shape of radius of the tri-hedra-conical rotary shape thingee and into our 2.1 premix soaked 3rd Sham-wow (I'll try to get pictures this weeked. I lost my job and moved to Egypt and spark plugs here are 15 quadzillion drachma but my friend has a AK47 and we think we can get a deal at the vegetable market because we have a nice Series II Camel we are going to trade). So when we arc the fuel and it lands in our Shamwow the fuel magically combobulates (sp?) and my RX7 friend told me that it all mixes up and everything. We then use this brillant black crazy straw and it feeds into the fuel tank and Viola! Totally mixed pre-mix and fuel. The whole process takes about 2 days and you get a yield of one full fuel tank for every 247 gallons. We find that the firemen don't really like us but I have 27 million 7-11 customer loyalty points and this helps get us there special 10-w-0-30 weight semi-un synthetic organic green diesel oil Idemitsu high sulphur based oil where we have an unlimited supply of oil filters (NAPA P/N ofeur03uon0df eofefdo jfd (we use 16 oil filters aligned all in a row ---don't use 17 because the 3rd thermostat on the right side cooler doesn't open until after 3 pm when I get off work and drive 17 minutes home unless it's friday then I go the long way past the old Lincoln Mercury dealer on Grand Park ave just South (well South east) of the starbucks that me and JAPRX8_Primo1 meet sometimes when he skips class at Jefferson College sometimes) Anyway (sorry if this is a double post) the oil coolers we cut in half and send all of them for Oil Analysis and Old Dragger told me to look for small concentrations of those little Gold Fish cracker crumbs at an uber molecular level because they hurt the 3rd bearing from the left (Mazda p/n 3309cn 3$&^@ but they are backordered right now) and then we take the results and send them to Cobb for a super tune with the Meyer-Motorsports cat back anti-vroom vroom mufflter sound (youtube link: Http://youtube.djfoeieoereree0d0d0d0d ) and it makes 185 hp on a dynojet if you follow Eric Meyer's advice (man he is a really cool dude) and warm up the drive train first being super, super careful to data log the right rear wheel speed ABS sensor (tires set at 38-41 psi Potenza GT- Mach 7 super radial all seasons) and so me and ZOOM2_RXISAWESOME (who is gonna buy a white 2010 Automatic with the new nav system is gonna come out soon because we read it in JAP_MOD_CAR_NEWS.com October 2008) and after we warm everything up in reverse we do 5 pulls on the dyno. Eric said you have to do 4 good pulls first being careful to exactly shift at 8,500 because at 9,000 your APV valve has a real bad harmonic resonance (he has tons of data on this) and his corner seal-o-meter pegs off the chart (834 Kelvin psi g forces) and teh engine looses about 14 HP!!! CAn you believe it!!!!!
Me and Flower_Zoom27 are going to do that this weekend when the Camel stops throwing up carrots (Mazda P/N 3383-carrots )but my dealer told me not to use carrots) down at the Cairo_RX8 Club annual dyno pull-a-looza.
Will report back from my iPhone this Sunday.
Zoom F_ckin Zoom!!!!!!!!!!!!!