9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Debates are good (researching 1991 Le Mans now)

jmc23200

I never said it wasn't worthing........

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

The only thing I can find is that the engine oil in the 787B was Idemitsu. Nothing about premix.

Chad D.

iTrader: (19)

I wonder what norton rotary racing has used for premix.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I know other team owners and staff have posted here that they do not use Idemitsu premix and some have recommended pretty much any good 2 stroke. So I think with the countless dyno hours and testing that they would use Idemitsu if it was Rotary specific. But then again, they rebuild so often they are probably don't worry about it as much.

jmc23200

To the best of my knowledge, the 787B only used Idemitsu oils. I believe the team also continues to only use idemitsu oils. Knowing that they have that much trust in the company makes me feel good about it.

Any good 2 stroke will be fine. If I am not mistaken, Jax uses MMO and preferes it over Idemitsu as he feels his car is a little more peppy on MMO. In reality, Mazda does not tell you to premix. So if you decide to do so, it's just a bonus for your car. Use any good synthetic premix and be happy that you care about your 8.

SayNoToPistons

iTrader: (8)

I have stopped using MMO all together and have switched to Valvoline for premix. Once I'm done with the bottle, I will try Amsoil. My friend is sponsored by Amsoil so he can get a deal going on .

jmc23200

^ A group deal?

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmc23200

Claims and reality are two different things. Compare a 5w oil with MMO. MMO is thin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad D.

.......Testing would be done in a controlled environment pertaining elements it has to surpass. Science ****......

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8

........and some have recommended pretty much any good 2 stroke.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASH8

I wish people would stop comparing MMO to Amsoil Saber Pro, because there is NO comparison.

One is a cheap "Mystery" product, the other is a High End 2 STROKE OIL with a VERY HIGH FLASH POINT.

Does anyone even know the flash point of MMO???..

THE POINT OF PRE-MIX IS YOU WANT THIS OIL TO LUBRICATE NOT INSTANTLY BURN OFF BECAUSE IT HAS A LOW FLASH/BURN RATE.

Well said, Ash.

I agree we could use some real world testing of oils in Renesii, but we don't need to re-invent the wheel - we already have some excellent two strokes oils - those that have passed the JASO tests.(and MMO will never be one of them.)

These tests involve running oils in real motors, with real power output measurement.

1) JASO M340-92 Lubricity test.
2) JASO M341-92 Detergency test.
3) JASO M342-92 Smoke test.
4) JASO M343-92 Exhaust system blocking test.
5) JASO M345-93 Two stroke gasoline engine oil suitability.

(Looks like the exhaust port blocking test would have some real relevance to our motors.....)

S

jmc23200

MMO just has a lot of positive testimonials. So many that you kind of can't deny them. I know some people swear by it. I won't lie. I have used it in my 8 when I first got it. It smoothed out the idle beautifully. That being said, I now prefer to use quality synthetic premixes that have data sheets readily available. It tends to be the companies that don't hide any data have better products.

SayNoToPistons

iTrader: (8)

My friend said he can get ~10% discount on Amsoil Saber Pro.

jmc23200

o0o0o0o0 I like

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

I switched over to astroglide sensual strawberry. Idemitsu just wasn't cutting it.

jmc23200

I like coconut butter.... runs silky smooth and smells yummy

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

oh you should try coconut oil then. they should really flavor premixes. How awesoem would it be to be driving around and all you smell is pina colada.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

screw you guys.

I use pig oil.

my car smells like bacon all the time ! BEAT THAT !

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

Sensual strawberry gets the wimenz

ReversedNormals

I've learned a lot reading this thread. With what I've learned here and my bartender background I've decided to create a premix cocktail. Sensual Strawberry, bacon grease, peanut oil and Idemitsu. My goal is to lubricate as well as give off the aroma of peanut butter, bacon and jelly sandwiches.

Anyway I was looking at some of these numbers comparing Idemitsu, AMSOIL Saber and AMSOIL Interceptor, trying to learn some of the differences between them.

Idemitsu
Kinematic Viscosity: 8.5 - 52.9
Viscosity Index: 136
Flash Point: 126° C

AMSOIL Saber
Kinematic Viscosity: 13.5 - 99
Viscosity Index: 136
Flash Point: 114° C

AMSOIL Interceptor
Kinematic Viscosity: 8.5 - 45.1
Viscosity Index: 170
Flash Point: 86° C

Looking at the numbers Interceptor has the highest VI, which I believe indicates that the kinematic viscosity changes the least over a range of temperatures. However it has a much lower flashpoint. I've read on this thread that flashpoint is important and that it is actually meaningless. I have no idea what to believe on this point. Saber has the highest Kinematic Viscosity, but I believe that only tells us how thick the product is, and not anything about lubrication. At this point I am not sure of what help any of this data actually is.

I also found this chart provided by AMSOIL:



What I find most interesting here is that AMSOIL rates Interceptor as "excellent" for motorcycles and snowmobiles, and Saber as "very good." Meanwhile Saber is "excellent" for smaller machinery like chainsaws and mopeds, and Interceptor is just "good."

I think Interceptor might be a really good choice for a premix, even possibly better for our cars than Saber. Of course there is no real proof yet.

What does anyone else think about all of this?

jmc23200

Seems like a more technical repost to what many have stated. No one really knows what will work. We would need new engines, or close to new, that premix with only one product. When it dies, tear it open and look at the wear. This would 1) Cost $$ that most don't have and 2) take quite a long time.

Read this thread, do research and make an educated guess at what to use. Just make sure you use a good quality synthetic 2 stroke oil and you will be fine.

BDC

Or, without trying to come off as rude, you could listen to those of us that've been in the rotary community doing premix for a very long time (this will be my 11th year). The use of any TCW-3 labeled 2-stroke outboard engine oil will work. I've torn down enough motors on enough cars to see that it works just fine as a premix. Granted, we're doing fuel tank premixing at ratios of about 160:1 (less than one ounce oil per gallon of fuel for normal, regular driving) to 128:1 (1 ounce of oil per gallon of fuel for hard driving, dyno day, race day, etc.)

It works. Believe me on that.

B

jmc23200

You don't come off as rude and you make a good point. TCW-3 oils will work fine, they are just worse for your cat. So anyone who would like to try to keep their cat should not use TCW-3 while those who have or want a mid pipe can use TCW-3.

BDC

Without trying to be argumentative, what proof do you have that it's bad for cat converters? I've never heard that before. I'm curious about that. It strikes me that, by design, 2-stroke oil is intended to be ashless to low ash and not leave much coming out of the exhaust to affect anything like a converter.

B

jmc23200

All TCW-3 oils are not created to be run with a catalytic converter. That is why you can find specific tcw-3 catalytic converter safe oils. TCW-3 oils are typically used in motorcycles and boats, which typically do not have cats. Cats are not intended to see oil. Using too much as a premix, can happen on track days, or using it as a premix and in a SOHN adapter may cause a premature cat failure.

I'm no expert, but some of the respected members of this forum highly recommend not using TCW-3 oils.

REDRX3RX8

I found a SAE paper of 1992 on Lubricating rotary racing engines. They measure carbonaceous deposit formation in the apex seal groove with mineral, polyalphaolefin (PAO synthetic), and polybutene oils.
The polybutene based oils seem to make approximately 10% carbon compared to anything else with a stickiness that minimizes spitback (better sealing-more power).
There are many 2 cycles on market that actually say they have polybutene (Lucas 2 cycle is a reasonable priced one), but IMO that most TC 2 cycle oils have polybutene.
My favorites:
Mobil 1 racing 2T (discountinued but I got stash)
Pennzoil air cooled 2 cycle ( Walmart Supertech 2 cycle TC might be same in pinch)
Lucas 2 cycle TC sounds good to me

jmc23200

^ You are talking about 2 stroke oils and outboard oils are not created equally. BDC is talking about using outboard oils.