General Oil Discussion (Moved from Premix thread)
#51
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Sweatr, the problem is 3 fold:
1) This thread is about gas/oil premix. This means when you put oil into your gas tank to assist with lubrication of the engine's internal surfaces. 4-stroke science has no place here because no one in their right mind will put 4-stroke oil into their gas tank. Totally different properties than 2-stroke oil.
2) Even if this conversation was in the correct thread, they are not disagreeing with you on the relationship between 'thickness' and viscosity.
3) Even if this conversation was in the correct thread, the point that they are trying to make is that regardless of the viscosity or thickness of the oil as branded on the bottle, the only true thing that matters is the performance of that oil. 9k (among many in the community) has done extensive analytical testing on used oil of many brands and viscosities. The wear elements from the engine present in the oil is the guiding point of oil performance, and viscosity is not a major factor in that.
What argument can you present for me leaving the thread alone that solves all 3 of those points?
1) This thread is about gas/oil premix. This means when you put oil into your gas tank to assist with lubrication of the engine's internal surfaces. 4-stroke science has no place here because no one in their right mind will put 4-stroke oil into their gas tank. Totally different properties than 2-stroke oil.
2) Even if this conversation was in the correct thread, they are not disagreeing with you on the relationship between 'thickness' and viscosity.
3) Even if this conversation was in the correct thread, the point that they are trying to make is that regardless of the viscosity or thickness of the oil as branded on the bottle, the only true thing that matters is the performance of that oil. 9k (among many in the community) has done extensive analytical testing on used oil of many brands and viscosities. The wear elements from the engine present in the oil is the guiding point of oil performance, and viscosity is not a major factor in that.
What argument can you present for me leaving the thread alone that solves all 3 of those points?
My argument is simply this: The general information in the chapter one of "Oil 101" is just that general and it should be on this site for the edification of all. It is good information on oil is it not?. If it is then I see no real argument against posting good information on oil and oil values and how the print on the can reads and what it means. A separate thread on general oil by many authors will give the membership a different look at oil in general.
The article isn't aimed at 4 cycle oil or 2 cycle oil , it is just general information on motor oil. We need a general oil thread on motor oil by real Authors, Granted A e Hass isn't published quite yet all other posts would be from other Authors on the general subject of oil. If I can post this general information why not.
Tell me why I can not pass along general oil information by published Authors on the subject of motor oil?.
#52
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I think the problem here is that you did not cite where you got the information from. The content of what you posted is good, but there were two things that you missed:
1. No citation/link...unless it's your own work you need to give credit to whoever completed the work.
2. txt file format is just cheap...not a good impression.
1. No citation/link...unless it's your own work you need to give credit to whoever completed the work.
2. txt file format is just cheap...not a good impression.
"The Content of what you posted is good" This is what i am saying. I am not the only one who thinks the info was or is good. It is a small group of folk here who cause the uproar over nothing. Please don't dismiss the idea of good general information from being posted because a few get their feather in bunch. I hhave other authors to post as well.
#53
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You didn't actually solve all 3 points with that response. You didn't solve even one of them.
However...
The reason why we may not agree with simply "passing the information along", is that the same concept can be applied to other topics that we have banned from the forum. For example, we have banned religious discussion here because it is impossible for people to discuss it with a level head. We are only slightly joking when we refer to oil discussions as "holy wars". They have proven time and time again to get no one anywhere, emotions get charged up, and things get out of hand.
There aren't many topics that do this, but yes, oil is one of them. As a moderator, I'm inclined to stop this discussion from going further because I don't want to deal with the cleanup later on. I know for certain that every other member of the staff agrees with that perspective.
Against my inclination though, I'm going to move this discussion out of the premix thread to it's own thread in the tech section, just to see how civil people can keep it. Be forewarned though, I don't really care who starts to get out of hand, if it happens I'm going to shut it down.
(This post will be copied into that thread too)
However...
The reason why we may not agree with simply "passing the information along", is that the same concept can be applied to other topics that we have banned from the forum. For example, we have banned religious discussion here because it is impossible for people to discuss it with a level head. We are only slightly joking when we refer to oil discussions as "holy wars". They have proven time and time again to get no one anywhere, emotions get charged up, and things get out of hand.
There aren't many topics that do this, but yes, oil is one of them. As a moderator, I'm inclined to stop this discussion from going further because I don't want to deal with the cleanup later on. I know for certain that every other member of the staff agrees with that perspective.
Against my inclination though, I'm going to move this discussion out of the premix thread to it's own thread in the tech section, just to see how civil people can keep it. Be forewarned though, I don't really care who starts to get out of hand, if it happens I'm going to shut it down.
(This post will be copied into that thread too)
#54
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You didn't actually solve all 3 points with that response. You didn't solve even one of them.
However...
The reason why we may not agree with simply "passing the information along", is that the same concept can be applied to other topics that we have banned from the forum. For example, we have banned religious discussion here because it is impossible for people to discuss it with a level head. We are only slightly joking when we refer to oil discussions as "holy wars". They have proven time and time again to get no one anywhere, emotions get charged up, and things get out of hand.
There aren't many topics that do this, but yes, oil is one of them. As a moderator, I'm inclined to stop this discussion from going further because I don't want to deal with the cleanup later on. I know for certain that every other member of the staff agrees with that perspective.
Against my inclination though, I'm going to move this discussion out of the premix thread to it's own thread in the tech section, just to see how civil people can keep it. Be forewarned though, I don't really care who starts to get out of hand, if it happens I'm going to shut it down.
(This post will be copied into that thread too)
However...
The reason why we may not agree with simply "passing the information along", is that the same concept can be applied to other topics that we have banned from the forum. For example, we have banned religious discussion here because it is impossible for people to discuss it with a level head. We are only slightly joking when we refer to oil discussions as "holy wars". They have proven time and time again to get no one anywhere, emotions get charged up, and things get out of hand.
There aren't many topics that do this, but yes, oil is one of them. As a moderator, I'm inclined to stop this discussion from going further because I don't want to deal with the cleanup later on. I know for certain that every other member of the staff agrees with that perspective.
Against my inclination though, I'm going to move this discussion out of the premix thread to it's own thread in the tech section, just to see how civil people can keep it. Be forewarned though, I don't really care who starts to get out of hand, if it happens I'm going to shut it down.
(This post will be copied into that thread too)
#56
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What is your oil gauge? You mean the red low level oil light? Or the fake oil pressure gauge?
Sweatr, take it from me, no one reads massive posts. But I'd be a hypocrite if I told someone else not to. I just don't expect a good reaction from the community for just posting large chunks of someone else's work.
Sweatr, take it from me, no one reads massive posts. But I'd be a hypocrite if I told someone else not to. I just don't expect a good reaction from the community for just posting large chunks of someone else's work.
#57
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Another member in the premix section where you moved this from said don't post other peoples writings as his assertion is it takes up too much room on the thread??. Is this true?, should I just post the link or address of the material?. My question is to you: Can I post the 10 chapters on oil 101 or just list the link?.
or litter the thread with 10 effing chapters of text.
*knock knock* .. anyone in there?
#58
Penn Grade 1 High Performance Oil
FWIW, I have been running this stuff since I switched over to E-85. It's designed for alcohol fueled race motors. I sent off a lab sample to blackstone last oil change (after 5k miles of 100% E-85 usage).
I'll let you guys know what the results look like.
I've had awesome results with this stuff on alcohol fueled piston motors for a lot of years.
FWIW, I have been running this stuff since I switched over to E-85. It's designed for alcohol fueled race motors. I sent off a lab sample to blackstone last oil change (after 5k miles of 100% E-85 usage).
I'll let you guys know what the results look like.
I've had awesome results with this stuff on alcohol fueled piston motors for a lot of years.
#59
Either way, how many engines have we seen fail because of excessive bearing wear? 99% of failure situations are blown or worn seals, with bearings being a replacement item because they don't meet minimum specs.
With all due respect RIWWP this stuff needs to continue because I believe in my heart that contrasting beliefs and points of what we believe are facts need to be displayed and talked about because I thought this is what this site was for.
I just want to contribute to the site and I am attempting to do so with some resistance at least and that is cool with me , I get what is going on here at rx8club.com and these folks are not going to run me off never. I am researching every day to improve my knowledge to better enjoy my 8 and I want to keep posting the other 9 cchapters and let the folk who want to keep hunting me , iuts ok.
I just want to contribute to the site and I am attempting to do so with some resistance at least and that is cool with me , I get what is going on here at rx8club.com and these folks are not going to run me off never. I am researching every day to improve my knowledge to better enjoy my 8 and I want to keep posting the other 9 cchapters and let the folk who want to keep hunting me , iuts ok.
"It doesn't even f***ing matter!"
Why doesn't it matter? For two reasons. First, because the majority of oils require API or higher certification standards which exceed conditions that a vehicle should EVER be subjected to. We think we have to run crazy oils because we drive our vehicles "harder" than other drivers do. That simply isn't true. Drivers who neglect their cars for 10,000 miles or longer between changes, use $2 filters, or hardly change filters see worse conditions than any of these vehicles. Simply put, "You are not the Johnny Race Car Driver you think you are."
Second, as I mentioned above, bearing wear resulting in engine destruction is fairly rare at least within the segment of aftermarket owners. As long as you run SOME kind of oil and do so within an acceptable maintenance period, you're going to be ok. Some people prefer using expensive oils, rigid change intervals and numerous lab testing which is fine. However, don't assume your engine will live or die on this basis alone as tons of other factors are in play.
Dr. Haas's article is good, and certainly provides lots of great opportunities for continued reading. This issue, however, will never be settled. It comes down to individual choice, and not everyone will agree.
Read some of our older oil threads. They have HUNDREDS of pages of content. Most of it is worthless, but there is a good chunk that is fantastic.
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