Help! Need New Engine! Pissed The Hell Off
#27
Lubricious
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Let me say this. Any manufacturer who doesn't cover engine damage known to be a problem with their design. that was maintained by one of its dealerships, would never get my business again. Furthermore, they are not a reputable company unless of course they tell you up front the engine won't last but 100,000 miles, if you're lucky.
I owned a Saturn SL1. I opened the hood one day to check the oil and noted that oil had gotten into the radiator (I could see it through the translucent radiator fill container). I brought the car to Saturn, it had 95,000 miles on it. They said....cracked cylinder head near a camshaft journal and it's a KNOWN problem and they fixed it....for free.
Now, the question remains; "Does Mazda back its products as well as a lowly company like Saturn (GM)? "
If they don't fix your engine, the answer is a plain and simple "No".
I owned a Saturn SL1. I opened the hood one day to check the oil and noted that oil had gotten into the radiator (I could see it through the translucent radiator fill container). I brought the car to Saturn, it had 95,000 miles on it. They said....cracked cylinder head near a camshaft journal and it's a KNOWN problem and they fixed it....for free.
Now, the question remains; "Does Mazda back its products as well as a lowly company like Saturn (GM)? "
If they don't fix your engine, the answer is a plain and simple "No".
As far as "known problem", it's not apparent to me from the info presented that this is due to a "known defect" of the engine. Apex seals have a finite lifetime. If we compare to your saturn, not sure if they would have ponied up a new engine if your rings or valve guides had worn, for example.
But finally, I'm not sure I'm buying Mazda's explanation at this point. When they said that warmup enabled a seal, I figured they might be talking about side seals. But now the info seems to be apex seals. Not sure how that would be influenced by temp or expansion of the rotor. If it is the apex seals, then it wouldn't be wear, but that they'e stuck in their grooves. Otherwise they move in and out to adjust to the dimensions and thermal expansion should not be a factor. I just might give it an overnight soak with cleaner, and once it's burned off run the hell out of it. Since it's already been pronounced dead, why not?
Or if you're smarter than me, you might take it to an independent rotary mechanic for a second opinion before doing anything else.
![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Last edited by Nubo; 04-04-2008 at 02:36 PM.
#28
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I guess it's a matter of perspective. Wasn't that long ago that 100,000 miles was a decent life for an engine. I realize it's common today, but how many miles before you feel you've gotten an even deal?
As far as "known problem", it's not apparent to me from the info presented that this is due to a "known defect" of the engine. Apex seals have a finite lifetime. If we compare to your saturn, not sure if they would have ponied up a new engine if your rings or valve guides had worn, for example.
But finally, I'm not sure I'm buying Mazda's explanation at this point. When they said that warmup enabled a seal, I figured they might be talking about side seals. But now the info seems to be apex seals. Not sure how that would be influenced by temp or expansion of the rotor. If it is the apex seals, then it wouldn't be wear, but that they'e stuck in their grooves. Otherwise they move in and out to adjust to the dimensions and thermal expansion should not be a factor. I just might give it an overnight soak with cleaner, and once it's burned off run the hell out of it. Since it's already been pronounced dead, why not?
Or if you're smarter than me, you might take it to an independent rotary mechanic for a second opinion before doing anything else.![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
As far as "known problem", it's not apparent to me from the info presented that this is due to a "known defect" of the engine. Apex seals have a finite lifetime. If we compare to your saturn, not sure if they would have ponied up a new engine if your rings or valve guides had worn, for example.
But finally, I'm not sure I'm buying Mazda's explanation at this point. When they said that warmup enabled a seal, I figured they might be talking about side seals. But now the info seems to be apex seals. Not sure how that would be influenced by temp or expansion of the rotor. If it is the apex seals, then it wouldn't be wear, but that they'e stuck in their grooves. Otherwise they move in and out to adjust to the dimensions and thermal expansion should not be a factor. I just might give it an overnight soak with cleaner, and once it's burned off run the hell out of it. Since it's already been pronounced dead, why not?
Or if you're smarter than me, you might take it to an independent rotary mechanic for a second opinion before doing anything else.
![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Are there any other rotary mechs in Jersey?
#30
IYAOYAS
Good luck... did you check out the pdf I posted on the TSB? I don't know if will help, but it seems like it pertains to your issues.
#31
Out of NYC
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I plan on and maybe I'll get someone who can perform that spray myself. I'm willing to pay a little to try if anyone out there knows anything about how to do it. Anybody out there in the Jersey area? I called Acosta motorsports but they seem closed.
Are there any other rotary mechs in Jersey?
Are there any other rotary mechs in Jersey?
I might do it over this weekend. if all goes well, we can find a place to meet up (whatever, ur home or my home) , then I can do the work (just buy me a beer lol)
I doubt they gonna replace ur engine, but like the others said, you SHOULD get ur 1500 back or at least 1/2 of it, cuz they did NOT fix ur car at all.
#32
Lubricious
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Yeah, if they balk at refunding you could suggest that maybe you should go out into the showroom and inform potential customers that Mazda's engine diagnostics cost $1500 a pop. Whee!
![Smilie](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#33
Out of NYC
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Cuz from their *600 something* number, .... it seems like either they charge u like 200 bux an hour, or they charged u at least 4 hours for something that could be done in 1 hour.
Yeah I know the engine cleaning u have to crank for a minute (in total) and let it sit for an hour. Exactly, SIT, they dont have to work on it. Plus I doubt they actually let it *sit* for an hour.
#34
seebass
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hi im new here, im in nj , i have the 8 since sep2005 , if that will happen to my 8
i'll wait the next rainy day and crashed to a pole, the car is save as hell
total lost ,pay the car, no more problems ,get a new one ,and start over
i don't wanna have that feel that mi 8 is a pice of **** car an mazda is worse than saturn
i'll wait the next rainy day and crashed to a pole, the car is save as hell
total lost ,pay the car, no more problems ,get a new one ,and start over
i don't wanna have that feel that mi 8 is a pice of **** car an mazda is worse than saturn
#35
...I'm SOOO Off Topic
#37
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Their policy could be do it twice then make the customer pay for engine. I mean 1 hour is not a long time to wait. I would wait like 4-5 hours. Sansone had told me the 2nd time that they may have only loosened the carbon the 1st time.
#38
Out of NYC
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hi im new here, im in nj , i have the 8 since sep2005 , if that will happen to my 8
i'll wait the next rainy day and crashed to a pole, the car is save as hell
total lost ,pay the car, no more problems ,get a new one ,and start over
i don't wanna have that feel that mi 8 is a pice of **** car an mazda is worse than saturn
i'll wait the next rainy day and crashed to a pole, the car is save as hell
total lost ,pay the car, no more problems ,get a new one ,and start over
i don't wanna have that feel that mi 8 is a pice of **** car an mazda is worse than saturn
oh, please enjoy ur saturn.
One bottle of cleaner "suppose" to be able to clean 2 engines.
I think you really should try to get ur money back. Seriously speaking, they didnt fix your problem at ALL.
If they want to be a bitch about it, tell them to take the stuff back from ur car, like coils, it didnt fix ur problem anyway (its nice to have new ones tho)
I can let u use my original coils first so u can at least drive it home, my original coils still work when I took them out, I replaced them cuz I want top performance at all times.
then I can just sell u my new coils and cleaner at cost. I can always re-order them. no big deal. then I'll do the dirty work for ya, free labor.
Damn dealerships.
I have almost 40K on my engine, no problems so far. Im doing the cleaning to my engine simply becuz I want to "better be safe than sorry"
Rotary engine are pretty reliable. The Synthetic oil thing from 30+ yrs ago hurt Rotary engine's image. then people who blew their 13B-REW up hurts it even more, when its NOT even Rotary's fault that these ppl up their boost without any upgrades to cooling.
Last edited by nycgps; 04-05-2008 at 12:11 AM.
#39
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I picked her up this evening and have been driving the hell out of her hoping to blow out whatever. It stumbled and flashed when I first started her then the engine light went out altogether. After it sat though I started her and it flashed on and stayed on. It still runs fine after warming up. I revved it to redline a couple of times. That's why I don't see why I'd have to get a new engine. I should be able to salvage this one. More cleaner
#40
Out of NYC
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it could be the seals are not sealing well, it could be due to carbon.
ahh **** I was in Jersey b4, I should've gave u a call to give ya a bottle of premix, Premix might be able to help ur sealing problem for now (if its not carbon)
Anyway, so u have new coils in there right ?
ahh **** I was in Jersey b4, I should've gave u a call to give ya a bottle of premix, Premix might be able to help ur sealing problem for now (if its not carbon)
Anyway, so u have new coils in there right ?
#41
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it could be the seals are not sealing well, it could be due to carbon.
ahh **** I was in Jersey b4, I should've gave u a call to give ya a bottle of premix, Premix might be able to help ur sealing problem for now (if its not carbon)
Anyway, so u have new coils in there right ?
ahh **** I was in Jersey b4, I should've gave u a call to give ya a bottle of premix, Premix might be able to help ur sealing problem for now (if its not carbon)
Anyway, so u have new coils in there right ?
#43
Lubricious
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This 65 degrees thing just seems fishy. Did they do a compression test, cold and warm, to confirm this theory? Surely there are other problems that could cause it to run extremely rich when cold?
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#48
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I have to make it. Last time I tried to make an appointment with them they gave me one that was like 2 weeks later. They must be very popular. I didn't feel like waiting so I took it to Sansone. Whenever I call them they're like bring it in. At 1st I thought prompt service, but now I see that no one trusts them and for good reason. They're flaky
#49
Lubricious
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This contradicts the previous statement:
If the apex seals aren't sealing, you get poor compression. So, in order for their "65 degrees" theory to hold water, the car would have to have bad compression when cold, and good compression when warm. I would think such a diagnosis would require at least 2 compression checks (warm vs. cold) to confirm. Or, maybe they're using their vacuum thingy to make this determination?
... Mazda now tells them that apex seals aren't sealing causing the misfire until the engine reaches 65 degrees upon which the rotor expands creating a seal and the engine runs fine