Local Dealer: "We replace about one A/C condenser a week."
05-22-2006, 11:18 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Local Dealer: "We replace about one A/C condenser a week."
I mentioned this in the regional forum but I thought I would post it here as well.
A/C condensers are droppin' like flies here in Houston. The problem is all the rocks that get kicked up into the RX-8's front grill are punching holes in the condensers. It doesn't take hardly any hole size to create a leak that will ruin your condenser.
I stopped driving I-45 because all of the rocks among other things. Well sure enough, I drove it last Friday to get to a party during what I call high speed rush-hour (Traffic at 7PM is dense and fast) and I caught a rock.
The replacement was $800 parts/labor/tax. I thought about maybe getting it fixed some other way but I avoided the hassle and just bit the bullet and got the thing replaced. My dealer is only a medium sized dealer. If he's replacing 1 per week, that could easily mean that Mazda in general is replacing tens of thousands of these per year and while I consider this a design flaw it isn't replaced under warranty.
I have already ordered the Racing Beat screens: http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm . My dealer recommended them to me. (I already knew about them, but I thought simply staying off the busy highways would avoid the problem so I wouldn't need the screens.)
-Mr. Wigggles
A/C condensers are droppin' like flies here in Houston. The problem is all the rocks that get kicked up into the RX-8's front grill are punching holes in the condensers. It doesn't take hardly any hole size to create a leak that will ruin your condenser.
I stopped driving I-45 because all of the rocks among other things. Well sure enough, I drove it last Friday to get to a party during what I call high speed rush-hour (Traffic at 7PM is dense and fast) and I caught a rock.
The replacement was $800 parts/labor/tax. I thought about maybe getting it fixed some other way but I avoided the hassle and just bit the bullet and got the thing replaced. My dealer is only a medium sized dealer. If he's replacing 1 per week, that could easily mean that Mazda in general is replacing tens of thousands of these per year and while I consider this a design flaw it isn't replaced under warranty.
I have already ordered the Racing Beat screens: http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm . My dealer recommended them to me. (I already knew about them, but I thought simply staying off the busy highways would avoid the problem so I wouldn't need the screens.)
-Mr. Wigggles
05-22-2006, 11:30 PM
#2
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Originally Posted by MrWigggles
I mentioned this in the regional forum but I thought I would post it here as well.
A/C condensers are droppin' like flies here in Houston. The problem is all the rocks that get kicked up into the RX-8's front grill are punching holes in the condensers. It doesn't take hardly any hole size to create a leak that will ruin your condenser.
I stopped driving I-45 because all of the rocks among other things. Well sure enough, I drove it last Friday to get to a party during what I call high speed rush-hour (Traffic at 7PM is dense and fast) and I caught a rock.
The replacement was $800 parts/labor/tax. I thought about maybe getting it fixed some other way but I avoided the hassle and just bit the bullet and got the thing replaced. My dealer is only a medium sized dealer. If he's replacing 1 per week, that could easily mean that Mazda in general is replacing tens of thousands of these per year and while I consider this a design flaw it isn't replaced under warranty.
I have already ordered the Racing Beat screens: http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm . My dealer recommended them to me. (I already knew about them, but I thought simply staying off the busy highways would avoid the problem so I wouldn't need the screens.)
-Mr. Wigggles
A/C condensers are droppin' like flies here in Houston. The problem is all the rocks that get kicked up into the RX-8's front grill are punching holes in the condensers. It doesn't take hardly any hole size to create a leak that will ruin your condenser.
I stopped driving I-45 because all of the rocks among other things. Well sure enough, I drove it last Friday to get to a party during what I call high speed rush-hour (Traffic at 7PM is dense and fast) and I caught a rock.
The replacement was $800 parts/labor/tax. I thought about maybe getting it fixed some other way but I avoided the hassle and just bit the bullet and got the thing replaced. My dealer is only a medium sized dealer. If he's replacing 1 per week, that could easily mean that Mazda in general is replacing tens of thousands of these per year and while I consider this a design flaw it isn't replaced under warranty.
I have already ordered the Racing Beat screens: http://www.racingbeat.com/FRmazda4.htm . My dealer recommended them to me. (I already knew about them, but I thought simply staying off the busy highways would avoid the problem so I wouldn't need the screens.)
-Mr. Wigggles
I had them on my 04 and now on my 06.
The grid pattern is just the right size to deflect bees and have even caught pea sized
pebbles that I later had to pry out with a jewelers screwdriver.
The have saved me $1,600, a good investment for less then 50 bucks.
is it really a design flaw or a plan for lots of 
05-23-2006, 12:31 PM
#5
Registered
brillo had the same thing happen last year in Houston. Drove on the freeway, had a rock hit the condenser and put a hole in it. He too had to pay for a new one. Yes he has screens now!
05-23-2006, 03:30 PM
#6
Originally Posted by Ryan13b
I consider it a design flaw in the front bumper causing the issue. Mazda said it's not a flaw, but in the end, they didn't fight the claim in court.
You must now be on their crap list.
Good Luck.
RB screens the way to go!
05-24-2006, 02:04 AM
#9
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Ryan13b
They're tiny, they only cover about the bottom 40%
-Mr. Wigggles
05-24-2006, 05:48 AM
#10
Greek Power
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Design fault or Design intention, the openings in the stock front bumper provide a VERY nice and much needed air flow (for radiator, A/C and oil coolers).
So y'all should stop crying like little babies and fork out the 80$ needed to buy the screens from RB or Hymee, or go to your local friendly carshop and let them make you the same screens for about 40$
It's a pity that some of us have to learn the hard way about little "quirks" like those...live and learn...
So y'all should stop crying like little babies and fork out the 80$ needed to buy the screens from RB or Hymee, or go to your local friendly carshop and let them make you the same screens for about 40$
It's a pity that some of us have to learn the hard way about little "quirks" like those...live and learn...
05-24-2006, 12:09 PM
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05-24-2006, 12:37 PM
#12
theres a differents between "design fault" and "wants happy customer"
In this case, is more like the latter.
Design fault means when they design something , and its not working as its intented to be.
Theres nothing wrong with the A/C condenser design, it gets good airflow and stuff.
Just like World Trade Center, it was designed to withstand wind, earthquake, and lots of people. Its NOT designed to withstand missiles and airplane hit(No offence to 9/11 people, I live in New York City too)
If your 8 got hit by a truck and you died, can your families sue Mazda for "design fault" ?
So its NOT design fault. Thats how I see it.
Get urself a Screen and stop whinning.
In this case, is more like the latter.
Design fault means when they design something , and its not working as its intented to be.
Theres nothing wrong with the A/C condenser design, it gets good airflow and stuff.
Just like World Trade Center, it was designed to withstand wind, earthquake, and lots of people. Its NOT designed to withstand missiles and airplane hit(No offence to 9/11 people, I live in New York City too)
If your 8 got hit by a truck and you died, can your families sue Mazda for "design fault" ?
So its NOT design fault. Thats how I see it.
Get urself a Screen and stop whinning.
Last edited by nycgps; 05-24-2006 at 12:39 PM.
05-24-2006, 02:26 PM
#13
I'm with Ryan13b on this one - when we make a design change in our product here at work, we fix all the old ones if needed. We do not go out and make a recall, we just repair it for free if the old part has failed, even when it is out of warranty. So, Mazda should just replace the condensors and add the small screen as a good will gesture.
05-24-2006, 11:06 PM
#14
Well then I guess I will start sueing everybody that I know.
they add a screen yes, for late 2005 models , from my point of view, is mostly a "want customers to be happy" thing.
Just like what I've said, can I or 9/11 victims starts sueing the Japanese guy who designed the World Trade Center for not being able to withstand Plane Crash ? (or his son/daughter, since he passed away long time ago) Theres nothing wrong with the original design, they can re-use the old design to rebuild, but that way no one wants to work up there anymore, so this time they're going to do a new design. See the point? nothing wrong with the original design, but to make customers happy, they have to make something new.
I dont know, everybody has their own point of view I guess.
they add a screen yes, for late 2005 models , from my point of view, is mostly a "want customers to be happy" thing.
Just like what I've said, can I or 9/11 victims starts sueing the Japanese guy who designed the World Trade Center for not being able to withstand Plane Crash ? (or his son/daughter, since he passed away long time ago) Theres nothing wrong with the original design, they can re-use the old design to rebuild, but that way no one wants to work up there anymore, so this time they're going to do a new design. See the point? nothing wrong with the original design, but to make customers happy, they have to make something new.
I dont know, everybody has their own point of view I guess.
05-25-2006, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by nycgps
theres a differents between "design fault" and "wants happy customer"
In this case, is more like the latter.
Design fault means when they design something , and its not working as its intented to be.
Theres nothing wrong with the A/C condenser design, it gets good airflow and stuff.
In this case, is more like the latter.
Design fault means when they design something , and its not working as its intented to be.
Theres nothing wrong with the A/C condenser design, it gets good airflow and stuff.
05-25-2006, 05:08 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by Ryan13b
And your analogy with the WTC is crazy.
A better one would have been Ford and the pinto.
They knew that if they didn't put a fuel tank sealer inside the tank it could explode. They didn't because they wanted to save money.
Any reasonable automotive engineer knew this *could* be a problem. They were liable when it did.
Any automotive engineer can see Mazda's design *could* be a problem. Now that it is a problem, they're liable.
A better one would have been Ford and the pinto.
They knew that if they didn't put a fuel tank sealer inside the tank it could explode. They didn't because they wanted to save money.
Any reasonable automotive engineer knew this *could* be a problem. They were liable when it did.
Any automotive engineer can see Mazda's design *could* be a problem. Now that it is a problem, they're liable.
05-28-2006, 04:35 PM
#19
If it wasn't a design flaw, why did they make the production change?
For example...here's a little known fact as an example. The rear stud's on the Mazda 6 underwent a part change nearly every single model year....
It usually takes forums almost an entire year to figure out all the little things that get changed with each model year. On the surface, there is usually only minor changes, but when you start digging deeper, all sorts of crazy stuff can change.
05-29-2006, 10:34 AM
#20
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Thread Starter
I started the thread and I want to add my two cents on whether the '04 condenser sans screens was a "design flaw" or whether the '05 with condenser screen was a "design improvement"
The answer is both the former and the later are true. As highway speeds slowly increase each year in the US, road debris has become an increasing problem. Anti-lock brakes, air bags, and stability control all help avoid or reduce the damage mainly from vehicle to vehicle accidents, they don't do much to prevent road debris damage especially from the smallest of debris.
Mazda should have recognized this (and they eventually did), but does that make them liable for all debris damage incurred from them not having condenser screens? No.
1. They didn't put the debris on the road, somebody else dropped it.
2. They didn't design the road. In my case means I-45 in Houston which often doesn't have shoulders and thus lacks a place for debris to eventually settle.
3. They didn't force me to drive on the road that I did. What level of debris is the RX-8 supposed to endure?
There are no standards for debris tolerance for road worthy vehicles; the NHTSA doesn't spec one and neither does any other international government agency to my knowledge. Thus there aren't any expressed warranties to the abilities of RX-8 to withstand road debris. Maybe rocks and thus this condenser issue aren't a problem at all in Japan or other parts of the world.
I guess what I am leading up to is the notion that because they fixed "the problem" for '05 the damage to the '04 is now their fault. This logic might play out in court, but is quite lacking in solid reasoning. Let's take other examples of debris damage and I think you'll see what I mean.
It is pretty well understood (or at least speculated) that modern water-based car paints are thinner and less chip resistance that previous solvent based versions. Thus the amount of damage to the paint in the front of the vehicle is quite extensive from debris. Now does that make all paint (and headlight) damage Mazda's fault? Most people would say "no"; if you want to preserve your paint, you should get a normal or clear bra for the front of your car. Ok, what if Mazda themselves added a clear bra in '07? Now, would Mazda be responsible for paint damage to all previous years? They "fixed the problem" so it must have been a "design flaw" for the previous years.
Before anyone says paint and headlights are just cosmetic problems and not the same thing, bear in mind that a rock to the condenser doesn't leave you stranded just uncomfortable and out of a chunk of dough. If you want to protect your paint, get a bra. If you want to protect your condenser, get debris screens.
This post sounds like I'm a lawyer for Mazda and I'm not. Heck I'm the one who had to shell out $800; it would be in my best finacial interests to make Mazda out to be the bad guy. However, I don't see how you say that the problem is 100% their fault. If helps people sleep at night, painting Mazda as the villian then so be it, but deep down I think most people don't see this as 100% Mazda's problem.
-Mr. Wigggles
The answer is both the former and the later are true. As highway speeds slowly increase each year in the US, road debris has become an increasing problem. Anti-lock brakes, air bags, and stability control all help avoid or reduce the damage mainly from vehicle to vehicle accidents, they don't do much to prevent road debris damage especially from the smallest of debris.
Mazda should have recognized this (and they eventually did), but does that make them liable for all debris damage incurred from them not having condenser screens? No.
1. They didn't put the debris on the road, somebody else dropped it.
2. They didn't design the road. In my case means I-45 in Houston which often doesn't have shoulders and thus lacks a place for debris to eventually settle.
3. They didn't force me to drive on the road that I did. What level of debris is the RX-8 supposed to endure?
There are no standards for debris tolerance for road worthy vehicles; the NHTSA doesn't spec one and neither does any other international government agency to my knowledge. Thus there aren't any expressed warranties to the abilities of RX-8 to withstand road debris. Maybe rocks and thus this condenser issue aren't a problem at all in Japan or other parts of the world.
I guess what I am leading up to is the notion that because they fixed "the problem" for '05 the damage to the '04 is now their fault. This logic might play out in court, but is quite lacking in solid reasoning. Let's take other examples of debris damage and I think you'll see what I mean.
It is pretty well understood (or at least speculated) that modern water-based car paints are thinner and less chip resistance that previous solvent based versions. Thus the amount of damage to the paint in the front of the vehicle is quite extensive from debris. Now does that make all paint (and headlight) damage Mazda's fault? Most people would say "no"; if you want to preserve your paint, you should get a normal or clear bra for the front of your car. Ok, what if Mazda themselves added a clear bra in '07? Now, would Mazda be responsible for paint damage to all previous years? They "fixed the problem" so it must have been a "design flaw" for the previous years.
Before anyone says paint and headlights are just cosmetic problems and not the same thing, bear in mind that a rock to the condenser doesn't leave you stranded just uncomfortable and out of a chunk of dough. If you want to protect your paint, get a bra. If you want to protect your condenser, get debris screens.
This post sounds like I'm a lawyer for Mazda and I'm not. Heck I'm the one who had to shell out $800; it would be in my best finacial interests to make Mazda out to be the bad guy. However, I don't see how you say that the problem is 100% their fault. If helps people sleep at night, painting Mazda as the villian then so be it, but deep down I think most people don't see this as 100% Mazda's problem.
-Mr. Wigggles
Last edited by MrWigggles; 05-29-2006 at 10:42 AM.
05-29-2006, 11:01 AM
#21
Registered
I've had to straighten out condenser fins on all my cars from road debris hitting them over time. I've just been lucky enough to not had anything get punctured. Maybe the RX-8 condenser is thinner than on other cars. I seriously doubt that it gets hit any more than some other cars.
06-01-2006, 09:23 PM
#22
He's as bad as Can
Add me too the list also. What I want to do is change the condenser myself and just let the shop to the purge / recharge. While looking around the net for a replacement I came across two types Parallel Flow Type and "regular" I assume. Is one better than the other? My other question is about removing the condenser. The shop manual states you need to drain the engine coolant, that step doesn't seem to make sense. Can someone confirm this?
Thanks
Thanks
06-03-2006, 01:51 AM
#23
You are sleeepppyyyy.....
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Haven't posted in probably over a year, but I would like to pipe in with this one. This morning I took my 04 in to get the A/C checked out and sure enough, same problem. Something had impacted the condenser, and lost the charge. About the same quote (770-something). I also went ahead and told them to fix it. It was over 100F here today, and only going to get hotter, so I need to get this fixed. Can't really take the time to devise a way to fix it myself cheaper. I would like to develope a list of people who've had this problem, and see how big of a trend this is. Might at least get Mazda to release a TSB about it that may get us the repair for free.
Last edited by CraziFuzzy; 06-03-2006 at 02:26 AM.
06-04-2006, 10:34 PM
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I had my ac/condenser replaced for the same reason. It was because of that that I did some web searching and found this forum. I like this forum, very informative! But it would have been better if Mazda did a TSB or have dealers notify RX8 owners about the issue. I would have liked to pay for preventative maintenance rather than the more costly repair work.
BTW - my repairs cost me $750 and I did get the Hymee screens afterwards.
BTW - my repairs cost me $750 and I did get the Hymee screens afterwards.
06-05-2006, 02:16 AM
#25
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I tried to get my dealer to install aftermarket screens and they absolutly refused. You would think that if I paid for them they would compromise and install them. Nope. Mine refuses to install an aftermarket part, even when it could prevent a potential problem.