Mazda's current stance on hp issue
#226
Just got back from the dealer after looking at a rx-8. I talked to the dealer about the HP issue and he said that they had info from dynos putting the HP at the wheels at 250 and 280 at the flywheel. Personally i think they are full of ****. Thought i would let you guys know how stupid these people are.
#227
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Originally posted by partovi
Just got back from the dealer after looking at a rx-8. I talked to the dealer about the HP issue and he said that they had info from dynos putting the HP at the wheels at 250 and 280 at the flywheel. Personally i think they are full of ****. Thought i would let you guys know how stupid these people are.
Just got back from the dealer after looking at a rx-8. I talked to the dealer about the HP issue and he said that they had info from dynos putting the HP at the wheels at 250 and 280 at the flywheel. Personally i think they are full of ****. Thought i would let you guys know how stupid these people are.
I was told by my salesperson that I probably know more about the rx-8 than anyone at the dealership. I'm glad she didn't just tell me a bunch of BS; instead she told me nothing about the car other than that it's "really nice."
There is no way I will be happy with under 190whp. Come on, the S2000s are getting into the 190s!!
#228
The Mazda dealership here explained to me the tire repair kit goo is specially made for Mazda. According to him, the goo won't destroy the tires because they will 'sublime' after the tire is properly repaired, thus making it as good as new. Anyone knows where I can get this type of 'special Mazda goo'?
Anyways, any news from Mazda regarding the power issue yet?
Anyways, any news from Mazda regarding the power issue yet?
Last edited by Skyline Maniac; 08-20-2003 at 02:39 PM.
#229
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Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
Minor correction here, it seems that Type E is only offered in automatic trim. So when I said 210ps Type E I actually meant the 210hp 5MT base model.
6MT 250ps Type S 18" wheels Bose upgraded brakes + sports suspension
5MT 250ps Base - 16" wheels base everything, but standard DSC and LSD. This model retails for 2400000yen, which is a tad less than $20,000 USD.
Minor correction here, it seems that Type E is only offered in automatic trim. So when I said 210ps Type E I actually meant the 210hp 5MT base model.
6MT 250ps Type S 18" wheels Bose upgraded brakes + sports suspension
5MT 250ps Base - 16" wheels base everything, but standard DSC and LSD. This model retails for 2400000yen, which is a tad less than $20,000 USD.
3 models:
RX-8 Type S: 250PS, 6 speed, cloth seats, ABS/EBD, 18", Bose.
My Japanese is too poor to figure what else is included.
$2,750,000 Yen (Roughly 23,288 USD$)
RX-8 : 210PS, 5 speed manual, or 4 speed automatic
cloth, 16" wheels, ABS+EBD. LSD+DSC is optional.
$2400000 Yen )Roughly 20,328 USD$
RX-8 Type E: ABS+EBD, LSD+DSC, 16" wheels, Bose, leather, 210PS, 4 speed automatic.
$2,750,000 Yen (Roughly $23,288 USD$)
Add freight, etc., USA emissions and bumpers, left hand drive, perhaps another $5,000.
#231
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Originally posted by partovi
Just got back from the dealer after looking at a rx-8. I talked to the dealer about the HP issue and he said that they had info from dynos putting the HP at the wheels at 250 and 280 at the flywheel. Personally i think they are full of ****. Thought i would let you guys know how stupid these people are.
Just got back from the dealer after looking at a rx-8. I talked to the dealer about the HP issue and he said that they had info from dynos putting the HP at the wheels at 250 and 280 at the flywheel. Personally i think they are full of ****. Thought i would let you guys know how stupid these people are.
On another nore, could the U.S. spec RX-8 be making 228hp at the crank like Mazda re-spec'd the Euro version? I can't imagine the Euro version having to deal with stricter emissions that the U.S. version.
#232
Re: Horsepower issue
Originally posted by myrx8
It sounds like this whole horsepower issue is with the 6 speed model. Is this true?
If it is, I am glad I got the slower automatic.
It sounds like this whole horsepower issue is with the 6 speed model. Is this true?
If it is, I am glad I got the slower automatic.
#234
I asked were they got their info they said that all the major magazines were putting out those numbers for their dynos. I was like bull **** but didnt want to make a big deal out of it. I told them i have seen posted pictures of more then one dyno with the RX-8 putting out 180 at the wheels. One of the guys said that the car is still really new and to give it some time and everything will be worked out. Thats kinda what im thinking.....hope its sooner then later. BTW when it comes down to it i would rather drive the 6 speed then the auto even if the 6 speed was only putting out 150hp at the wheels.
#235
Forum Vendor
One fellow installed a GTech unit and did some runs.
Results are posted at:
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.p...394#post101394
0-60 in 6.021 seconds.
1/4 mile in 14.037 at 101.39mph
COOL!
:D :D :D :D :D :D
Results are posted at:
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.p...394#post101394
0-60 in 6.021 seconds.
1/4 mile in 14.037 at 101.39mph
COOL!
:D :D :D :D :D :D
#237
okay i owned a G35C reason i said owned is cause a week ago it got totalled...if you check the G35 forums right now you will notice they are complaining about the same amount of power loss...its seems that the g35 is rated at 280 but being dyno'ed after 4k miles only gives out a reading between 220 and 240...right now i am lookin at either getting the g35c again or a rx-8...both being high compression motors i think is something we all need to take into account... for instance most of us have delt with 9.5 or lower compression motors with turbos...now we are dealing with 10:1 or higher compression...I could be wrong but maybe having a highly tuned n/a motor is what is causing the shortage in hp..cause even the e46 m3 with a rating of 333 is dyno'ed at about 280 or so... and its compression is 11.5:1... to come down to it mazda didnt make this car to be sports car...it ment it to be a fun to drive in the mountains and in the city kind of car not for a race track...also does anyone know what mazda stated the transfer loss to be...cause if they state 247 then by law they also need to tell you what can actually be expected under pre-written conditions other wise its false advertisement... i think instead of having 16 pages of posts with everyones opinions we should just write to Ford the owner of mazda and tell them we want visual proof of the 247 either on an engine dyno or a reason on why there is a 40hp loss... if you disagree with me thats cool heck i disagree with myself...
#238
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Originally posted by crazydrifter
I could be wrong but maybe having a highly tuned n/a motor is what is causing the shortage in hp...
I could be wrong but maybe having a highly tuned n/a motor is what is causing the shortage in hp...
#239
Originally posted by crazydrifter
if you check the G35 forums right now you will notice they are complaining about the same amount of power loss...its seems that the g35 is rated at 280 but being dyno'ed after 4k miles only gives out a reading between 220 and 240...
if you check the G35 forums right now you will notice they are complaining about the same amount of power loss...its seems that the g35 is rated at 280 but being dyno'ed after 4k miles only gives out a reading between 220 and 240...
Thanks!
#240
The G35 power deficiency issue arised earlier this year, when people started to compare their G35's to BMW counter parts. Some people felt the BMW's 'felt' faster. Some G35 owners complain about the fact that BMW engines with lower power ratings generally performs on par with higher power Nissan engines. (Check Automobile article for the G35C vs 330ci comparison)
When people dyno their G35 sedan and coupes on the FA forum. The same was performed on the MY350Z forum. The basic complaint was that the powertran loss on these new Nissans are about 17% (optimistic owners were expecting 15% from the manual) and that lower models such as Altima, G35 sedan are underrated. Base on several dyno results, the G35 sedan generally dynos in at 220(+5)whp, the G35 coupe around 230(+5)whp, and the 350Z around 235(+5)whp. Do a search on the FA forum or G35drivers forum to see more dyno results. Seems that the difference between G35 sedan and coupes are much less than 20hp, and 350Z dynos in around 5-10whp higher than the coupe. Quarter mile slips on the G35C have been right around 14.1-14.2, which is not too bad.
I don't want to sound like a sales person here, it just so happens I know info on the G35 and G35C better than most on this forum.
When people dyno their G35 sedan and coupes on the FA forum. The same was performed on the MY350Z forum. The basic complaint was that the powertran loss on these new Nissans are about 17% (optimistic owners were expecting 15% from the manual) and that lower models such as Altima, G35 sedan are underrated. Base on several dyno results, the G35 sedan generally dynos in at 220(+5)whp, the G35 coupe around 230(+5)whp, and the 350Z around 235(+5)whp. Do a search on the FA forum or G35drivers forum to see more dyno results. Seems that the difference between G35 sedan and coupes are much less than 20hp, and 350Z dynos in around 5-10whp higher than the coupe. Quarter mile slips on the G35C have been right around 14.1-14.2, which is not too bad.
I don't want to sound like a sales person here, it just so happens I know info on the G35 and G35C better than most on this forum.
#241
Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
I don't want to sound like a sales person here, it just so happens I know info on the G35 and G35C better than most on this forum.
I don't want to sound like a sales person here, it just so happens I know info on the G35 and G35C better than most on this forum.
*sigh*
#242
CAUTION
Skyline Maniac wrote on 08-17-2003 11:43 PM:
If all you have to say is "Too bad you don't know anything about the RX-8 and you're still here? *sigh*", then don't bother posting.
If you have a valid point, then make it. But take the petty bickering elsewhere.
---SM
Fellow members requested info regarding G35 dynos (which as far as I know, I am the most knowledgable person here) thus I post the information for the benefit of those who are interested. If you got anything to say to me, feel free to PM me~ (Can't guarantee I'll read them, but at least you won't look like an @)#$#$ on the forum)
btw: Does anyone here know how the Miata owners back in the 90's found out about the power issue and managed to get benefits form Mazda back then? It would be great to have an experienced Miata owner here to aid the RX-8 owners.
Last edited by Skyline Maniac; 08-21-2003 at 12:17 PM.
#243
Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
The G35 power deficiency issue arised earlier this year, when people started to compare their G35's to BMW counter parts. Some people felt the BMW's 'felt' faster. Some G35 owners complain about the fact that BMW engines with lower power ratings generally performs on par with higher power Nissan engines. (Check Automobile article for the G35C vs 330ci comparison)
When people dyno their G35 sedan and coupes on the FA forum. The same was performed on the MY350Z forum. The basic complaint was that the powertran loss on these new Nissans are about 17% (optimistic owners were expecting 15% from the manual) and that lower models such as Altima, G35 sedan are underrated. Base on several dyno results, the G35 sedan generally dynos in at 220(+5)whp, the G35 coupe around 230(+5)whp, and the 350Z around 235(+5)whp. Do a search on the FA forum or G35drivers forum to see more dyno results. Seems that the difference between G35 sedan and coupes are much less than 20hp, and 350Z dynos in around 5-10whp higher than the coupe. Quarter mile slips on the G35C have been right around 14.1-14.2, which is not too bad.
I don't want to sound like a sales person here, it just so happens I know info on the G35 and G35C better than most on this forum.
The G35 power deficiency issue arised earlier this year, when people started to compare their G35's to BMW counter parts. Some people felt the BMW's 'felt' faster. Some G35 owners complain about the fact that BMW engines with lower power ratings generally performs on par with higher power Nissan engines. (Check Automobile article for the G35C vs 330ci comparison)
When people dyno their G35 sedan and coupes on the FA forum. The same was performed on the MY350Z forum. The basic complaint was that the powertran loss on these new Nissans are about 17% (optimistic owners were expecting 15% from the manual) and that lower models such as Altima, G35 sedan are underrated. Base on several dyno results, the G35 sedan generally dynos in at 220(+5)whp, the G35 coupe around 230(+5)whp, and the 350Z around 235(+5)whp. Do a search on the FA forum or G35drivers forum to see more dyno results. Seems that the difference between G35 sedan and coupes are much less than 20hp, and 350Z dynos in around 5-10whp higher than the coupe. Quarter mile slips on the G35C have been right around 14.1-14.2, which is not too bad.
I don't want to sound like a sales person here, it just so happens I know info on the G35 and G35C better than most on this forum.
Cuz that sounds like a familiar issue, and honestly the threads look exactly the same (really, you could replace the numbers, and names, and have the exact same arguments, even down to good performance numbers against not-so-pretty dyno's), but I missed the RX-8 people over there, calling on Nissan to fix their huge mistake...
#244
KyngNothing, well, at first we were somewhat concerned with the power issue on the VQ35DE engine. Once the dyno numbers came in though, it was pretty obvious the Nissan engines are more or less on target. 17% Powertran loss is pretty standard on the new 6MT sequential shifter and 2 piece drive shaft on our cars, so there is nothing to complain about. If our cars had dynoed with 30% power loss (under 200whp dyno) though~ you can bet we'd be making lots of noise.
Resident Nissan engineers (real Nissan employees who knew what they are talking about) on the G and Z forums explained the transmission loss coefficiency, drive shaft difference and intake difference between the G35 sedan, coupe and 350Z promptly. Everyone came out more informed and were pretty satisfied with the explaination. Now if Mazda would release a reasonable explaination regarding the power loss, I am sure we won't have to scream bloody murder here.
Resident Nissan engineers (real Nissan employees who knew what they are talking about) on the G and Z forums explained the transmission loss coefficiency, drive shaft difference and intake difference between the G35 sedan, coupe and 350Z promptly. Everyone came out more informed and were pretty satisfied with the explaination. Now if Mazda would release a reasonable explaination regarding the power loss, I am sure we won't have to scream bloody murder here.
#246
Forum Vendor
Nissan lies more!
I *used* to own a Spec V.
Nissan claimed 185hp for those.
Actual dyno was 140 - 143.
That is 22.7% below.
Then they dropped the claim to 180hp
That is 20.555% loss.
If we assume 17% loss ( not unreasonable) we see 205whp.
As the dyno results we are getting vary from around 180 to 192, I do not think we have seen much definitive yet.
If we get around 200 I would be satisfied.
As I mentioned before on these forums, my RX-8 is pulling well above 6200rpm, so I do not have any big issues so far.
If anyone is expecting to see dyno runs above 200 I think they are either naive or overly hopeful.
Just my opionion..
Nissan claimed 185hp for those.
Actual dyno was 140 - 143.
That is 22.7% below.
Then they dropped the claim to 180hp
That is 20.555% loss.
If we assume 17% loss ( not unreasonable) we see 205whp.
As the dyno results we are getting vary from around 180 to 192, I do not think we have seen much definitive yet.
If we get around 200 I would be satisfied.
As I mentioned before on these forums, my RX-8 is pulling well above 6200rpm, so I do not have any big issues so far.
If anyone is expecting to see dyno runs above 200 I think they are either naive or overly hopeful.
Just my opionion..
#247
Originally posted by KyngNothing
How long did Nissan take to release those explanations?
How long did Nissan take to release those explanations?
Honestly, the C&D 5.5s on a loaded G35C model seems exaggerated IMO, as most other publications were getting around 5.7-5.8 on a base light model. We have had G35C owners running 14.0-14.1s on a strip, but they are expert racers with years of experience. Similarly, I would question the 5.9s figure on the preproduction RX-8 until we see some time slips from forum members. We need more data from everyone who owns a RX-8 to make a better evaluation. (no, stop watch numbers don't count, and G-Tech Pro alone is not enough. We had people reporting 0-60 on the G35C 5.3s on a G-Tch..... to me that;s just BS)
#248
Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
17% Powertran loss is pretty standard on the new 6MT sequential shifter and 2 piece drive shaft on our cars, so there is nothing to complain about.
17% Powertran loss is pretty standard on the new 6MT sequential shifter and 2 piece drive shaft on our cars, so there is nothing to complain about.
#249
accurate hp reading
if any of you are into car tv programs you might know about the uk program called Top Gear if not let me explain to you who they are...they are a group of 3 guys. one being an ex f1 racer another a tech guy and the third i think is just jo somebody...but anyways they usually test cars at full throtle around town and on the track... on their site about the RX-8 http://www.topgear.com/servlet/tg?DE...Number=02.html they declare the 6 speed to have 228bhp...and they usually dyno the car and not declare what the car company states...so maybe this will help on the whole hp thing