MC2 Metal Conditioner impressions
05-13-2015, 03:18 PM
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MC2 Metal Conditioner impressions
Discovered a local based product today, that I want to share with you guys! MC2 Metal Conditioner. So.far, I am VERY impressed. I have not.been asked or paid in any way to recommend this product. Not affiliated with these guys either.
So after contacting the company, the owners are allowing me to test their product in my 2006 Mazda RX8 GT ( #rotary engine ) and my 2004 Mitsubishi Endeavor XLS V6 AWD.
First off, let me say these guys are absolutely wonderful, both on the phone, and in person. Classy and gracious.
Having driven from their current headquarters about 7 miles from my home with the MC2 metal conditioner in my vehicle, both as a oil additive and as a fuel premix, I can attest to some immediate results. WAY more shocked than the first time I used Idemitsu.
I poured in 3 ounces into Shell Vpower 93 octane (while they hadn't done any of their own rotary testing, they were adamant that it had been tested as a premix, and worked extremely well in 2 stroke engines), and 13 ounces into my Royal Purple 10w30.
Firstly the engine vibrational harmonics are almost eliminated, and that was in the first 3 miles.
Taking it on the highway, I noticed that not only was there more punch to acceleration overall, but also the throttle response was improved. As if a lightened flywheel had been installed. Revs came on significantly quicker.
The other thing I watched for based the product claims, was temperature reduction. Sure enough, by the time I pulled into my subdivision, the coolant temp gauge dropped by a full notch and a half, and the fans hadn't even kicked on! Now of course I didn't add MC2 to the coolant... But this can only be a result of oil temps being significantly reduced.
Can't wait to test my 0~60 times and gas mileage, and give a long term report! I will also be getting pictures and reporting in the oil at my next change.
If you contact them, let them know Ryan DeClue sent you from the forums, as I was telling them that rotary enthusiasts would be very interested in an additive that does what MC2 claims.
So after contacting the company, the owners are allowing me to test their product in my 2006 Mazda RX8 GT ( #rotary engine ) and my 2004 Mitsubishi Endeavor XLS V6 AWD.
First off, let me say these guys are absolutely wonderful, both on the phone, and in person. Classy and gracious.
Having driven from their current headquarters about 7 miles from my home with the MC2 metal conditioner in my vehicle, both as a oil additive and as a fuel premix, I can attest to some immediate results. WAY more shocked than the first time I used Idemitsu.
I poured in 3 ounces into Shell Vpower 93 octane (while they hadn't done any of their own rotary testing, they were adamant that it had been tested as a premix, and worked extremely well in 2 stroke engines), and 13 ounces into my Royal Purple 10w30.
Firstly the engine vibrational harmonics are almost eliminated, and that was in the first 3 miles.
Taking it on the highway, I noticed that not only was there more punch to acceleration overall, but also the throttle response was improved. As if a lightened flywheel had been installed. Revs came on significantly quicker.
The other thing I watched for based the product claims, was temperature reduction. Sure enough, by the time I pulled into my subdivision, the coolant temp gauge dropped by a full notch and a half, and the fans hadn't even kicked on! Now of course I didn't add MC2 to the coolant... But this can only be a result of oil temps being significantly reduced.
Can't wait to test my 0~60 times and gas mileage, and give a long term report! I will also be getting pictures and reporting in the oil at my next change.
If you contact them, let them know Ryan DeClue sent you from the forums, as I was telling them that rotary enthusiasts would be very interested in an additive that does what MC2 claims.
05-13-2015, 03:31 PM
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Read this: The Disadvantages of Using Anti-Friction Metal Conditioners
As if we didn't have enough wear problems already.
Using "metal conditioners" generally is not recommended. This is because most of these types of products are derived from a chlorinated compound. The chlorine in these compounds is very reactive with a metal surface and will immediately corrode it. The corrosion byproducts and oxides then become a sacrificial friction barrier. This barrier does have a lubricating property, as it is sloughed off to expose fresh material.
Over time, as this cycle is repeated and the freshly exposed material reacts with the additive suspended in the oil, there can be substantial wear (both chemical and mechanical) to the components. The long-term effects of the corrosive chlorine far outweigh any short-term benefit from this sacrificial barrier.
Over time, as this cycle is repeated and the freshly exposed material reacts with the additive suspended in the oil, there can be substantial wear (both chemical and mechanical) to the components. The long-term effects of the corrosive chlorine far outweigh any short-term benefit from this sacrificial barrier.
As if we didn't have enough wear problems already.
Last edited by RIWWP; 05-13-2015 at 04:07 PM.
05-13-2015, 04:05 PM
#4
So.. in 7 miles .. the newly introduced metal conditioner coated all of the contact surfaces sufficiently to eliminate all vibration and add more than 5hp (threshold of a difference you can actually feel) AND reduced engine temperature to a point that the thermostat was no longer able to maintain normal operating temperature.
Sounds like a winning formula. Ship it.
Sounds like a winning formula. Ship it.
05-13-2015, 04:13 PM
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Snake oil is an expression that originally referred to fraudulent health products or unproven medicine but has come to refer to any product with questionable or unverifiable quality or benefit.
05-13-2015, 11:13 PM
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I'm not really sure. DIY was the closest thing I could find to additive/chemical recommendation. I guess move it to wherever it could help the most of us. The improvements I'm feeling are definitely real, and I'm really hoping it helps other owners out.
I'm well aware of this thread and this quote. I was sure to specifically ask them if this product was chlorinated in any way at all. It isn't.
Why are all of you guys pessimists?
Maintain normal operating temperature? Are you unaware how our temp gauges don't work properly? Or the fact that the more heat you can eliminate, the better the efficiency and performance of an internal combustion engine?
7 miles, when already up to temp, is plenty of time and distance to implement fully, a friction reducing substance.
I never said all vibrational harmonics were eliminated, I said a hell of a LOT were.
I know my car very well at this point. I know what it feels like and how it goes, and I KNOW the difference I have felt so far.
There are several products out there that do what they claim. Could it not be possible that there odds a new one? One that may be hugely beneficial to rotary engines?
Furthermore, I never claimed a horsepower increase, nor would I be stupid enough to claim that from a chemical additive.
I said there was more of a punchy feeling to acceleration, and that the revs seemed to come on much quicker.
Changing gear ratios will have this same effect, and doesn't add a single horsepower.
I'm well aware of this thread and this quote. I was sure to specifically ask them if this product was chlorinated in any way at all. It isn't.
Read this: The Disadvantages of Using Anti-Friction Metal Conditioners
As if we didn't have enough wear problems already.
As if we didn't have enough wear problems already.
Maintain normal operating temperature? Are you unaware how our temp gauges don't work properly? Or the fact that the more heat you can eliminate, the better the efficiency and performance of an internal combustion engine?
7 miles, when already up to temp, is plenty of time and distance to implement fully, a friction reducing substance.
I never said all vibrational harmonics were eliminated, I said a hell of a LOT were.
I know my car very well at this point. I know what it feels like and how it goes, and I KNOW the difference I have felt so far.
There are several products out there that do what they claim. Could it not be possible that there odds a new one? One that may be hugely beneficial to rotary engines?
So.. in 7 miles .. the newly introduced metal conditioner coated all of the contact surfaces sufficiently to eliminate all vibration and add more than 5hp (threshold of a difference you can actually feel) AND reduced engine temperature to a point that the thermostat was no longer able to maintain normal operating temperature.
Sounds like a winning formula. Ship it.
Sounds like a winning formula. Ship it.
I said there was more of a punchy feeling to acceleration, and that the revs seemed to come on much quicker.
Changing gear ratios will have this same effect, and doesn't add a single horsepower.
So.. in 7 miles .. the newly introduced metal conditioner coated all of the contact surfaces sufficiently to eliminate all vibration and add more than 5hp (threshold of a difference you can actually feel) AND reduced engine temperature to a point that the thermostat was no longer able to maintain normal operating temperature.
Sounds like a winning formula. Ship it.
Sounds like a winning formula. Ship it.
Last edited by RIWWP; 05-14-2015 at 07:19 AM. Reason: multi-quoting is your friend. Ours too
05-13-2015, 11:58 PM
#7
"the coolant temp gauge dropped by a full notch and a half"
"Are you unaware how our temp gauges don't work properly?"
Look up what a thermostat does please.
"Revs came on significantly quicker. "
"Changing gear ratios will have this same effect, and doesn't add a single horsepower"
Well you didn't change gear ratios, did ya now. Cars don't magically go faster without more power coming from somewhere.
I'm not sceptical for nothing, but you're not helping yourself. If the fine folks manufacturing this product want to be taken seriously, start making sense.
"Are you unaware how our temp gauges don't work properly?"
Look up what a thermostat does please.
"Revs came on significantly quicker. "
"Changing gear ratios will have this same effect, and doesn't add a single horsepower"
Well you didn't change gear ratios, did ya now. Cars don't magically go faster without more power coming from somewhere.
I'm not sceptical for nothing, but you're not helping yourself. If the fine folks manufacturing this product want to be taken seriously, start making sense.
05-14-2015, 12:39 PM
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You don't even what? Please prove a single thing I've stated to be wrong.
What the **** is wrong with you Mazda people? Of all the vehicles I've owned and forums I've been a part of, never have I encountered such know it all know nothing bunch of douche bag dude bros like you people!
Doesn't matter what forum I go to, you are some keyboard warrior hateful *******.
Is this just a trait of Mazda owners?
I came here after trying trying a product out that I believe is actually doing what it claims, to share my experience.
These people even offer a free 8oz bottle to whomever wants it. Nothing to lose.
It's not even a big company. It's 2 guys. 2 normal car enthusiasts who are chemical engineers, making a product to help other enthusiasts.
All you guys can do dump on something you've never even tested yourselves.
What the **** is wrong with you Mazda people? Of all the vehicles I've owned and forums I've been a part of, never have I encountered such know it all know nothing bunch of douche bag dude bros like you people!
Doesn't matter what forum I go to, you are some keyboard warrior hateful *******.
Is this just a trait of Mazda owners?
I came here after trying trying a product out that I believe is actually doing what it claims, to share my experience.
These people even offer a free 8oz bottle to whomever wants it. Nothing to lose.
It's not even a big company. It's 2 guys. 2 normal car enthusiasts who are chemical engineers, making a product to help other enthusiasts.
All you guys can do dump on something you've never even tested yourselves.
05-14-2015, 12:58 PM
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circuit, there is a lot of science proving these things to not work, except where it causes damage to the engine. Is this an exception to those rules? Maybe. But it's going to need science to prove it before you make us believers. Given how the rest of them work, there IS a very big reason not to risk damage to the engine. Give us some science, not some possible placeabo evaluations of a few miles of driving.
Without that science, no one here will believe you.
And no, "some guy somewhere that says he is an engineer told me this is what it does" isn't scientific proof.
Without that science, no one here will believe you.
And no, "some guy somewhere that says he is an engineer told me this is what it does" isn't scientific proof.
Last edited by RIWWP; 05-14-2015 at 01:00 PM.
05-14-2015, 01:00 PM
#14
Seriously, do these 2 chemical dudes a favour, and bring something more than "omg I drove 7 miles with some fuel additive and it felt so much better".
You offered 0-60 times and fuel economy figures and pictures (?!) at your next oil change.. so bring it, back your claims up. Otherwise nobody's going to listen to you. It's not a Mazda thing, it's a not taking BS thing.
05-14-2015, 01:20 PM
#16
Until you give hard, concrete statistical facts on paper then all you're explaining is a placebo effect.
I see other side of your coin; sounds more like Mazda owners are less naive and skeptical to butt-feeling claims until they see actual, factual data to prove the product is worth anything
I see other side of your coin; sounds more like Mazda owners are less naive and skeptical to butt-feeling claims until they see actual, factual data to prove the product is worth anything
05-14-2015, 01:24 PM
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^ I'm sure if we were to jump on every possible concept enthusiastically without actually digging into it first, we would only swap labels from "pessimistic haters" to "gullible idiots".
Can't win them all.
Can't win them all.
05-14-2015, 01:28 PM
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You don't even what? Please prove a single thing I've stated to be wrong.
What the **** is wrong with you Mazda people? Of all the vehicles I've owned and forums I've been a part of, never have I encountered such know it all know nothing bunch of douche bag dude bros like you people!
Doesn't matter what forum I go to, you are some keyboard warrior hateful *******.
Is this just a trait of Mazda owners?
I came here after trying trying a product out that I believe is actually doing what it claims, to share my experience.
These people even offer a free 8oz bottle to whomever wants it. Nothing to lose.
It's not even a big company. It's 2 guys. 2 normal car enthusiasts who are chemical engineers, making a product to help other enthusiasts.
All you guys can do dump on something you've never even tested yourselves.
What the **** is wrong with you Mazda people? Of all the vehicles I've owned and forums I've been a part of, never have I encountered such know it all know nothing bunch of douche bag dude bros like you people!
Doesn't matter what forum I go to, you are some keyboard warrior hateful *******.
Is this just a trait of Mazda owners?
I came here after trying trying a product out that I believe is actually doing what it claims, to share my experience.
These people even offer a free 8oz bottle to whomever wants it. Nothing to lose.
It's not even a big company. It's 2 guys. 2 normal car enthusiasts who are chemical engineers, making a product to help other enthusiasts.
All you guys can do dump on something you've never even tested yourselves.
First off, calm the F down. Second, you have offered no evidence to support a thing you have said about this product other than your personal opinion. Butt dynos and feelings are not an accurate way to test a product. It has nothing to with Mazda, do you think because we own RX-8's that is all we own or drive? Come on man, wake up.
There are a million products like this and 99% of the time when they are tested in a scientific manner, they don't do jack **** or worse they actually cause damage.
And I know a lot of engineers and like any other profession, some are useless and some are knowledgeable and good at what they do. And these two guy are selling the product so of course they will say whatever they need to say in order to sell their product. It's not like they are two unbiased independent engineers giving an opinion.
I mean some of your claims are just silly and you don't have to be a mechanical engineer or a chemical engineer to understand why.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 05-14-2015 at 01:36 PM.
05-14-2015, 01:34 PM
#19
Kidding kidding. *flies rotart flag*
Last edited by Dominarian; 05-14-2015 at 01:37 PM.
05-14-2015, 01:35 PM
#20
Like I said, use the stuff as regularly as you are suppose to for a year and come back and tell us how it went. If you can get a dyno now and another in a year, great and get your used oil tested if you can as well.
05-14-2015, 01:38 PM
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Oh and for ***** an giggles, I looked up the MSDS. I am pretty sure this is the product but I emailed MC2 to be sure. You tell me how acid mixed with a solvent (also used as an oil dispersal product in the oil industry) can help in any way? Oh wait, yes, mixing acid and a solvent that is used as an oil dispersant with your engine oil is a great idea..............
http://www.precisioncoatingsinc.com/...onditioner.pdf
Ingredient #1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphoric_acid
Ingredient #2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-Butoxyethanol
http://www.precisioncoatingsinc.com/...onditioner.pdf
Ingredient #1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphoric_acid
Ingredient #2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-Butoxyethanol
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 05-14-2015 at 02:10 PM.
05-14-2015, 02:09 PM
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Okay I also got this which does actually list the ingredients which is strange for a MSDS. I emailed them asking for specifics.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2B...ew?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2B...ew?usp=sharing
05-14-2015, 03:19 PM
#23
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Well, it looks like MC2 is not very forthcoming with information. All I got was this vague answer when I asked for the specifics on the ingredients from MC2 and this was the response.
No, the ingredients are proprietary, but I can say that it is petroleum based.
05-14-2015, 03:48 PM
#24
Water Foul
The US Navy actually banned use of chlorinated metal treatments after finding problems with corrosion and wear. They found some short-term benefits in testing, but also found long-term problems. Google Militec-1 and find its true history with the Navy for an example of how the above unfolded.
Most of the products of this type, if they list ingredients in the MSDS, boil down to a solvent or other petroleum or alcohol-based carrier, a dispersant, and an active ingredient that consists of a lubricating metals package or a chlorinated component. (Read: fuel injector cleaner plus lubricant.) There is no hard evidence that these products provide any tangible benefits to an engine.
Most of the products of this type, if they list ingredients in the MSDS, boil down to a solvent or other petroleum or alcohol-based carrier, a dispersant, and an active ingredient that consists of a lubricating metals package or a chlorinated component. (Read: fuel injector cleaner plus lubricant.) There is no hard evidence that these products provide any tangible benefits to an engine.