Msp16 killed my engine!!?? :(
02-26-2010, 07:08 AM
#1
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Msp16 killed my engine!!?? :(
Ok Been on the forums for years new account name, havent seen anything like this posted before.
Yesterday I took my car to get the MSP16 flash done to the car. I had no problems whatsover with the car.(MT 04 @ 62000miles)
Just thought i would keep up to date with the updates. Well after they got done with the re-flash. the car throws a CEL and has a Low RPM idle.
I can get the car to idle at about 700rpm when im stopped but as soon as i try to drive and i let off the throttle the
engine shuts off. It will only stay on if i am at a stand still.
Tech at the dealership said i might need to have my throttle body cleaned.
But i dont see why i would if i didnt have any idle issues before i took the car in.
Also want to mention that my plugs and coils have like 15k so im counting those out for sure.
RECAP_____
MSP16 FLASH Causes
- CAR IDLES AT 700RPM (at times)
-CAR SHUTS OFF AFTER I TRY DRIVING IT
- Now showing CEL
_ VERY bummed owner
Anyone have any idea what could be wrong? They want 190 for a diagnostic i am short 180.haha.. So any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
thank you
Yesterday I took my car to get the MSP16 flash done to the car. I had no problems whatsover with the car.(MT 04 @ 62000miles)
Just thought i would keep up to date with the updates. Well after they got done with the re-flash. the car throws a CEL and has a Low RPM idle.
I can get the car to idle at about 700rpm when im stopped but as soon as i try to drive and i let off the throttle the
engine shuts off. It will only stay on if i am at a stand still.
Tech at the dealership said i might need to have my throttle body cleaned.
But i dont see why i would if i didnt have any idle issues before i took the car in.
Also want to mention that my plugs and coils have like 15k so im counting those out for sure.
RECAP_____
MSP16 FLASH Causes
- CAR IDLES AT 700RPM (at times)
-CAR SHUTS OFF AFTER I TRY DRIVING IT
- Now showing CEL
_ VERY bummed owner
Anyone have any idea what could be wrong? They want 190 for a diagnostic i am short 180.haha.. So any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
thank you
Last edited by DIABLO_8; 02-26-2010 at 07:20 AM.
02-26-2010, 07:42 AM
#2
First of all, the new software update has been in use for 2 yrs now and is the current update for the ECU. There aren't thousands of owners with dead cars, so it wasn't the update.
You need to get the error code that is causing the CEL to show. Sometimes it takes a couple of driving cycles before the ECU can learn the proper operating conditions for your car.
You need to get the error code that is causing the CEL to show. Sometimes it takes a couple of driving cycles before the ECU can learn the proper operating conditions for your car.
02-26-2010, 07:50 AM
#3
Few more questions:
Can you keep it running if you shift into Neutral but keep your foot on the gas (aka, manually keep the idle rpms at like 1k-1500.)
If you shift into neutral while coasting (like before coming to a stop at a stop light) does it still turn off?
Does it shutter, or try to keep it self going or does it just drop right to 0 rpm and stall pretty smoothly?
You car takes some time to re-learn fuel trims, so the rpms at idle should jump around a little bit, it may even stall once or twice until it learns exactly how much fuel is needed to idle.
However, it could be something in your intake structure. It would be worth it to take off your accordion tube in your intake and see if there is oil and inspect the condition of your throttle body.
Just a few ideas.
Can you keep it running if you shift into Neutral but keep your foot on the gas (aka, manually keep the idle rpms at like 1k-1500.)
If you shift into neutral while coasting (like before coming to a stop at a stop light) does it still turn off?
Does it shutter, or try to keep it self going or does it just drop right to 0 rpm and stall pretty smoothly?
You car takes some time to re-learn fuel trims, so the rpms at idle should jump around a little bit, it may even stall once or twice until it learns exactly how much fuel is needed to idle.
However, it could be something in your intake structure. It would be worth it to take off your accordion tube in your intake and see if there is oil and inspect the condition of your throttle body.
Just a few ideas.
02-26-2010, 07:56 AM
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Few more questions:
Can you keep it running if you shift into Neutral but keep your foot on the gas (aka, manually keep the idle rpms at like 1k-1500.)
If you shift into neutral while coasting (like before coming to a stop at a stop light) does it still turn off?
Does it shutter, or try to keep it self going or does it just drop right to 0 rpm and stall pretty smoothly?
You car takes some time to re-learn fuel trims, so the rpms at idle should jump around a little bit, it may even stall once or twice until it learns exactly how much fuel is needed to idle.
However, it could be something in your intake structure. It would be worth it to take off your accordion tube in your intake and see if there is oil and inspect the condition of your throttle body.
Just a few ideas.
Can you keep it running if you shift into Neutral but keep your foot on the gas (aka, manually keep the idle rpms at like 1k-1500.)
If you shift into neutral while coasting (like before coming to a stop at a stop light) does it still turn off?
Does it shutter, or try to keep it self going or does it just drop right to 0 rpm and stall pretty smoothly?
You car takes some time to re-learn fuel trims, so the rpms at idle should jump around a little bit, it may even stall once or twice until it learns exactly how much fuel is needed to idle.
However, it could be something in your intake structure. It would be worth it to take off your accordion tube in your intake and see if there is oil and inspect the condition of your throttle body.
Just a few ideas.
Yea i was thinking the car needed to relearn the program so i left it idle in the driveway for like 30min since i cant drive it. but still had the problem after i took it for a spin.
02-26-2010, 07:58 AM
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First of all, the new software update has been in use for 2 yrs now and is the current update for the ECU. There aren't thousands of owners with dead cars, so it wasn't the update.
You need to get the error code that is causing the CEL to show. Sometimes it takes a couple of driving cycles before the ECU can learn the proper operating conditions for your car.
You need to get the error code that is causing the CEL to show. Sometimes it takes a couple of driving cycles before the ECU can learn the proper operating conditions for your car.
And after i got this done i got these problems. So i am super confused.
02-26-2010, 08:14 AM
#6
Yup i can keep the car running in nuetral as long as i give it gas and if im coasting as soon as i let off the gas it dies. Pretty smoothly just dies. Doesnt try to keep the rpm up.
Yea i was thinking the car needed to relearn the program so i left it idle in the driveway for like 30min since i cant drive it. but still had the problem after i took it for a spin.
Yea i was thinking the car needed to relearn the program so i left it idle in the driveway for like 30min since i cant drive it. but still had the problem after i took it for a spin.
02-26-2010, 08:18 AM
#7
This sounds very very very much like my SSV problem when it first happened. . . but, not ever problem on the RX8 can be traced back to not having a catch can.
Anything else you can tell us? Any white smoke? smell of coolant? Leaky fluids? (low fluids)
Any mods?
Anything else you can tell us? Any white smoke? smell of coolant? Leaky fluids? (low fluids)
Any mods?
02-26-2010, 12:11 PM
#8
RX8. Yeah, I get it.
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Can the mod who is posting here please move this thread out of the S2 forum and put it where it belongs since the OP can't read what forum he's in ?
02-26-2010, 12:13 PM
#9
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MSP15 did not kill your engine.
why did you not get it done much sooner? Running a pre-MSP16 flash all this time is what killed your engine
why did you not get it done much sooner? Running a pre-MSP16 flash all this time is what killed your engine
02-26-2010, 01:20 PM
#10
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They were charging me 95 for the flash didnt have the money before thought i really didnt need it. But since i had extra cash recently thought i would get it done now. regret it though.
02-26-2010, 01:23 PM
#11
meh.
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02-26-2010, 01:28 PM
#14
Well... this engine is not "killed". It still runs and starts fine... it just doesn't stay running...
The fact that it starts and runs (with a foot on the gas) tells us that everything is fundamentally fine. Meaning its getting fuel, spark, and air... So what changes when it tries to idle?
----------------------
Now, I'm not saying this is it... but read through the thread about my car when it had these problems...
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...&highlight=ssv
The fact that it starts and runs (with a foot on the gas) tells us that everything is fundamentally fine. Meaning its getting fuel, spark, and air... So what changes when it tries to idle?
----------------------
Now, I'm not saying this is it... but read through the thread about my car when it had these problems...
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...&highlight=ssv
02-26-2010, 01:31 PM
#17
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diablo: yes, most Autozone's offer to read your CEL for free. (in hopes that you'll buy parts from them to correct the CEL)
02-26-2010, 01:47 PM
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02-26-2010, 03:28 PM
#21
Vyndictive called it right in his first post. My 04 MT had the same thing happen after tHe MSP16, it kept stalling and low idle on the way home. Turned back around and went back to the dealership. They pulled the plugs ( I had just done them) everything looked OK. Service guy said it needed to relearn, I agreed but said it shouldn't outright stall. They called MNAO where they were told that some 8s have this happen after the re-flash, recommended spraying throttle body cleaner, they popped the accordion tube off sprayed cleaner into the throttle body. Everything has been fine since (more than 20K). Simple fix but should still check the code.
02-26-2010, 04:28 PM
#22
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They called MNAO where they were told that some 8s have this happen after the re-flash, recommended spraying throttle body cleaner,
FWIW, when I had MSP16 done, I felt no difference in how the car drove. So, unless the dealer took it for a ride and relearning was quick, needing to relearn isn't a given for this update.
Ken
02-26-2010, 04:54 PM
#23
the OP's description of the "issue" sounds exactly like a ECU that needs to relearn the fuel trims.
You'll need to drive it for a few days and get a few drive cycles under your belt. It will function normally after that.
Alternatively, you can get the cobb accessport and get a custom map that has the correct fuel trims so that even when it's reset, your car drives normally right away.
You'll need to drive it for a few days and get a few drive cycles under your belt. It will function normally after that.
Alternatively, you can get the cobb accessport and get a custom map that has the correct fuel trims so that even when it's reset, your car drives normally right away.
03-01-2010, 04:07 PM
#24
Ken, I haven't seen anything where the throttle body cleaner is mentioned after MSP 16. Only going by what the service writer said, I had it a Faulkner in NE Phila (only decent service dept that I have around here). They must have sprayed the hell out of it because when I got back in the 8 I could smell it coming from the vents. But it sure as heck worked, I was stalling at each intersection as soon as it dropped to idle. Once they called MNAO, they said it only happens to some 8s and they cleaned it while I waited. It has been fine ever since.
03-01-2010, 04:38 PM
#25
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Check all your vacuum lines to make sure none were disconnected or became cracked during the shop work. Make sure the accordion clamps are tight. Check electrical connectors.