My engine rebuild.
05-26-2010, 12:43 PM
#152
Well since I have no experience with rebuilding rotary's I default to my good eye, my friend's help, and of course my common sense.
Oh yea the workshop manual, RR's threads, the rebuild DVD, and pinapple's short clips have helped out as well.
Oh yea the workshop manual, RR's threads, the rebuild DVD, and pinapple's short clips have helped out as well.
05-26-2010, 12:58 PM
#154
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05-26-2010, 12:58 PM
#155
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Shady: on the plus side, I think you're about to set the record for the LONGEST engine rebuild, ever. 
Just bustin' your chops man, hope all goes well with this project and you're back on the road soon.
Just bustin' your chops man, hope all goes well with this project and you're back on the road soon.
05-26-2010, 01:16 PM
#156
Super Moderator
If you are Buying "Genuine" Oil Control Rings (Here I know of no other) they are Bought as a SET...that is a one Inner and one Outer as a SET, I would be VERY surprised if a Dealer will Split 2 sets for 2 outers only.
Also, they are sold/boxed as a SET of 4 for a Reason, they should be Renewed as a SET.
That is the Mazda Parts box they come in has 4 sets (4 Inner and Outer) with Qty 4 on the Box...again you order 4 x N3Z1-11-S10A for one engine.
You may find a Dealer prepared to split a Box of 4...( I would not personally)..I would tell you to replace ALL of them....Still do.
Sorry, I don't agree on the above..for you..at all.
4 X N3Z1-11-S10A OCR at $80 = $320 US
Plus springs and O rings.
Last edited by ASH8; 05-26-2010 at 01:30 PM.
05-26-2010, 01:24 PM
#157
Super Moderator
BTW..Same OCR's for R100 10A, 12A, 13B, 13B REW, Renesis...
05-26-2010, 03:57 PM
#158
Just to add to the oil control seal debate . My builder told me he only insists on replacing them if they show a wear 'land' more than a mm or so on the sealing surface .
If you look at a new one you see it comes to a point - badly worn ones show a 'land' .
If you look at a new one you see it comes to a point - badly worn ones show a 'land' .
05-26-2010, 06:19 PM
#159
Bullshit.
They should be "renewed" based on their wear, individually, on a case-by-case basis.
This is not only the proper method for everything in the motor, it is the method explained in Mazda's own Renesis engine rebuild manual.
Mazda dealers sell them individually, just like apex seals.
This is correct.
I wonder where one might find such a manual?
They should be "renewed" based on their wear, individually, on a case-by-case basis.
This is not only the proper method for everything in the motor, it is the method explained in Mazda's own Renesis engine rebuild manual.
Mazda dealers sell them individually, just like apex seals.
I wonder where one might find such a manual?
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 05-26-2010 at 06:22 PM.
05-26-2010, 10:31 PM
#160
Super Moderator
Bullshit.
They should be "renewed" based on their wear, individually, on a case-by-case basis.
This is not only the proper method for everything in the motor, it is the method explained in Mazda's own Renesis engine rebuild manual.
Mazda dealers sell them individually, just like apex seals.
They should be "renewed" based on their wear, individually, on a case-by-case basis.
This is not only the proper method for everything in the motor, it is the method explained in Mazda's own Renesis engine rebuild manual.
Mazda dealers sell them individually, just like apex seals.
OH do they now...You would know then with all that Mazda Parts Sales Experience...
THEY SELL them as a set of TWO..ONE inner and ONE outer..
YOU CAN NOT BUY JUST THE OUTER Only RING SEPARATELY...Or the Inner ONLY Ring Separately.
They are sold as a QUANTITY OF FOUR Sets, so Smart *** why do they sell '4' in a BOX when there are a TOTAL of 8 Oil Rings ????
As I said YOU MAY get a Dealer who will take One Pair/ Set out of a Box..I never would...It is UP to the PARTS DEALER.
As I said, 1 (0ne) ( N3Z1-11-S10A ) is ONE outer and ONE Inner Oil Control Ring.
OR perhaps you might like to Show us the Part Numbers for the Single Outer and Single Inner OCR??
I AM TALKING Genuine MAZDA PARTS...
Who in their right mind would renew only one side of 4 rotor faces with ALL new OCR's and leave the other 3 rotor sides with old ones that have done maybe 50,000 miles, it is almost like replacing one piston with new rings and leaving the other 5 (6 Cyl Banger) as used..
Yes, you can buy an Apex Seals and Corner Seal or Springs and O rings 'Singularly', but again Who would just renew One Apex Seal and leave the other 5 used ones in.??
Last edited by ASH8; 05-26-2010 at 10:37 PM.
05-26-2010, 10:35 PM
#161
I understand that you are/were a Mazda parts cashier, but how many Renesis builds have you actually done?
Even if your personal preference for the spec are much tighter, the vast majority of the oil and cutoff rings out there have absolutely no wear and can be reused with no consequence as long as you change the O-ring.
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 05-26-2010 at 10:38 PM.
05-26-2010, 10:46 PM
#162
Super Moderator
Nope. You can do it. I have. You are wrong. Sorry.
I understand that you are/were a Mazda parts cashier, but how many Renesis builds have you actually done?
There is a spec for these parts and it is very tolerant.
Even if your personal preference for the spec are much tighter, the vast majority of the oil and cutoff rings out there have absolutely no wear and can be reused with no consequence as long as you change the O-ring.
I understand that you are/were a Mazda parts cashier, but how many Renesis builds have you actually done?
There is a spec for these parts and it is very tolerant.
Even if your personal preference for the spec are much tighter, the vast majority of the oil and cutoff rings out there have absolutely no wear and can be reused with no consequence as long as you change the O-ring.
As I said....PLEASE SHOW me the Mazda Part numbers for a Single OUTER and a Single Inner OCR that YOU CAN BUY or Have Bought from a Mazda Dealer??
As I said the Single ONE SET gives you Both one Inner and one OUTER, that is THE ONLY WAY you can BUY them From Mazda...SO Sorry YOU are Wrong.
For a Mazda Maniac I am surprised at your lack of knowledge concerning this issue..
How many Rotary Engine Parts sets have you sold since you were a teenager??
05-26-2010, 10:52 PM
#163
I don't buy from a Mazda dealer - I buy from a supplier that purchases directly from Mazda.
Sorry, but parts-counter people are generally uninformed. You just have your particular, parochial vantage point and that's it.
I can (as can anyone else) purchase every single part of the motor piecemeal. Every seal, spring, gasket and O-ring.
I've done this with quite a few different motors over the years.
The trick is to steer clear of dealership parts departments.
Sorry, but parts-counter people are generally uninformed. You just have your particular, parochial vantage point and that's it.
I can (as can anyone else) purchase every single part of the motor piecemeal. Every seal, spring, gasket and O-ring.
I've done this with quite a few different motors over the years.
The trick is to steer clear of dealership parts departments.
05-26-2010, 10:57 PM
#165
Super Moderator
I understand that you are/were a Mazda parts cashier
What do you think Mazda Parts Dealer managers and staff just stand there behind a cash register and take the Money in some type of customer self serve parts department warehouse..like Wallmart...
HA...HA....HA...
05-26-2010, 11:03 PM
#166
In fact, when you do find a parts counter guy who is "involved", it is usually a considerable hindrance, not help because the ignorance/misinformation level is very high.
Don't misunderstand - I have a VERY high prejudice against dealerships and dealership parts and service workers. They are almost entirely the scum of the earth.
I have been fighting this battle almost since the beginning.
Almost every parts guy thinks that, because he has access to the exploded views, he is an expert.
I don't know you. But you have already demonstrated the exact sort of ignorance that I am talking about.
Get your nose out of the book (screen) and see what the people who actually use these parts are doing and who they are talking to.
They certainly are NOT going to dealer parts departments unless it is useful to them.
05-26-2010, 11:13 PM
#167
Super Moderator
I don't buy from a Mazda dealer - I buy from a supplier that purchases directly from Mazda.
Sorry, but parts-counter people are generally uninformed. You just have your particular, parochial vantage point and that's it.
I can (as can anyone else) purchase every single part of the motor piecemeal. Every seal, spring, gasket and O-ring.
I've done this with quite a few different motors over the years.
The trick is to steer clear of dealership parts departments.
Sorry, but parts-counter people are generally uninformed. You just have your particular, parochial vantage point and that's it.
I can (as can anyone else) purchase every single part of the motor piecemeal. Every seal, spring, gasket and O-ring.
I've done this with quite a few different motors over the years.
The trick is to steer clear of dealership parts departments.
Where do you "Think" a Mazda Dealer BUYS them from? Disneyland?
What percentage do you get off List price??with your Direct deal..50 or 60% maybe..
Until you can show me the Part Number of a SINGLE OCR either inner or OUTER..I call you BULLSHIT..because I Know you can not...not from Mazda..they DO NOT PACKAGE THEM in that manner..Fullstop...they are in pairs.
I am really interested to hear how any Seller that is not a Retail Mazda Car Dealership with a legal binding agreement can purchase directly from Mazda Parts Distribution. This side of the world it is impossible Mazda Australia and MMC simply do not allow it.
05-26-2010, 11:19 PM
#168
Well, on THIS side of the world, it is the way its done.
I don't need to demonstrate anything for you. I do it all the time and what I can do is the only thing that matter to me.
We have several sources here in AZ that buy directly from Mazda. That's just the way it is.
Dealerships and their parts departments are just retailers for Mazda and will do as they are told.
If Shady needs just one oil control ring, he knows who he can contact to get one.
I don't need to demonstrate anything for you. I do it all the time and what I can do is the only thing that matter to me.
We have several sources here in AZ that buy directly from Mazda. That's just the way it is.
Dealerships and their parts departments are just retailers for Mazda and will do as they are told.
If Shady needs just one oil control ring, he knows who he can contact to get one.
05-26-2010, 11:22 PM
#169
Super Moderator
Don't misunderstand - I have a VERY high prejudice against dealerships and dealership parts and service workers. They are almost entirely the scum of the earth.
I have been fighting this battle almost since the beginning.
I have been fighting this battle almost since the beginning.
Oh really, and you are in a Business Partnership (BHR) or whatever you think you are??
Almost every parts guy thinks that, because he has access to the exploded views, he is an expert.
05-26-2010, 11:23 PM
#170
Super Moderator
Well, on THIS side of the world, it is the way its done.
I don't need to demonstrate anything for you. I do it all the time and what I can do is the only thing that matter to me.
We have several sources here in AZ that buy directly from Mazda. That's just the way it is.
Dealerships and their parts departments are just retailers for Mazda and will do as they are told.
If Shady needs just one oil control ring, he knows who he can contact to get one.
I don't need to demonstrate anything for you. I do it all the time and what I can do is the only thing that matter to me.
We have several sources here in AZ that buy directly from Mazda. That's just the way it is.
Dealerships and their parts departments are just retailers for Mazda and will do as they are told.
If Shady needs just one oil control ring, he knows who he can contact to get one.
Come on Share it with others.....figured as much..
05-26-2010, 11:30 PM
#171
I see I touched a nerve.
Too close to home? lol
Here is a little anecdote. This is one of DOZENS of encounters that are sadly similar:
I rolled into my local dealership back east with my KL powered MX-3 and asked for a right-side head gasket.
He asked for the VIN.
I explained that the VIN would be useless since the motor in the vehicle was not the OE.
His answer was "That's not possible".
When I walked him out of the parts department to actually look at the vehicle, he claimed that I had simply altered the casting on the block to make it look like I had swapped the motor.
This scenario played out at several other parts counters until I just went out and got a VIN from a wreck at a local yard from an MX-6.
My favorite is still the old guy at Rosenthal who, in 2004, asked me if my RX-8 was the I4 or the V8.
I have absolutely no idea. I don't keep the little plastic bags with the paper tags.
I just tell Glen what I need and the next day he has it.
Too close to home? lol
Here is a little anecdote. This is one of DOZENS of encounters that are sadly similar:
I rolled into my local dealership back east with my KL powered MX-3 and asked for a right-side head gasket.
He asked for the VIN.
I explained that the VIN would be useless since the motor in the vehicle was not the OE.
His answer was "That's not possible".
When I walked him out of the parts department to actually look at the vehicle, he claimed that I had simply altered the casting on the block to make it look like I had swapped the motor.
This scenario played out at several other parts counters until I just went out and got a VIN from a wreck at a local yard from an MX-6.
My favorite is still the old guy at Rosenthal who, in 2004, asked me if my RX-8 was the I4 or the V8.
I just tell Glen what I need and the next day he has it.
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 05-26-2010 at 11:34 PM.
05-26-2010, 11:39 PM
#175
kevin@rotaryresurrection
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I rolled into my local dealership back east with my KL powered MX-3 and asked for a right-side head gasket.
He asked for the VIN.
I explained that the VIN would be useless since the motor in the vehicle was not the OE.
His answer was "That's not possible".
When I walked him out of the parts department to actually look at the vehicle, he claimed that I had simply altered the casting on the block to make it look like I had swapped the motor.
This scenario played out at several other parts counters until I just went out and got a VIN from a wreck at a local yard from an MX-6.
and 
looks is to tell a dealership employee that you've done a major modification or engine swap and try to obtain parts or service from them. It's as if you just divided by zero and they are waiting for a wormhole to appear.