RB flash = overheating on track?
08-30-2007, 12:31 AM
#26
The pump is available by phone call: 1 800 221 5156.
Paul.
08-30-2007, 02:10 AM
#27
road warrior
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Oakland and Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,861
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
There's so much that goes into proper cooling. I wouldn't be quick to blame the flash although the premature cat death has a more logical correlation. You might pressure test your cooling system to ensure there isn't anything else going on.
The pump is available by phone call: 1 800 221 5156.
Paul.
The pump is available by phone call: 1 800 221 5156.
Paul.
08-30-2007, 07:38 AM
#28
Exactly like stock. Our pump simply utilizes much stricter clearances for impeller to pump body and impeller to pump housing. Then our impeller design is the ultimate in race engineering that reduces used hp and prevents cavitation.
Paul.
Paul.
I cheated though..the battery box and intake were already out...I think it took about 10 minutes total.....
08-30-2007, 10:43 AM
#32
Registered
The main issue I see here is that the car was designed and built for street use. That means it is designed to cool an engine that doesn't see regular or sustained high rpm use. Especially not at redline in 100+ degree weather. This car is seeing full track use. As we all know a rotary is an impressive device when it comes to heat generation. Much more so than your average piston engine. We can use large coolers and still not cool as well as many piston engined cars with smaller coolers. That's just the way it goes.
If you want to drive your car on a track for 30+ minutes at high rpms like a race car, you need to look into cooling it down like a race car. I know you can say that "I've done this before and it was fine" etc etc.... So what? It's not doing it now and needs to be addressed. I don't look at the flash as a fault. Which flash is it? Is it their street flash or race flash? I would also never drive a car in this manner and still be running a cat. I'd run a straight pipe.
One thing the flash does is to lean things out for more power. Leaner is hotter and more power produces more heat. If you don't want the added possibilty of potential cat damage then you must not want more power. More power or more cat life. Pick one but it comes at the expense of the other. If you find a way to get both, patent it and get rich.
I agree with the comments about air not getting through the back of the oil coolers efficiently enough. It doesn't. The mounting brackets are straight behind the center of the coolers and immediately behind that is the wheel well liners. Air has a hard time getting through as a result. If you can't get air out of them efficiently, how much you have going to them on the front side is irrelevant. Fans on the oil coolers may help at low speeds as you really just need some kind of flow but they won't do anything at higher speeds if they can't help move additional air past the coolers due to blockage.
The water pump is definitely an issue that needs to be dealt with. I have no reservations in endorsing the Mazmart pump and feel everyone that owns an RX-8, tracked or street driven, should be using it. (Paul I'll tell you where to send my check for saying that!
) I believe that the water pump should be addressed before the radiator. The radiator can't cool efficiently if the water can't get to it due to pump cavitation. Upgrading the radiator can't hurt but the pump must come first. As long as you have a thermostat, you can't run too cold from a system that is too efficient. It will give you that extra headroom for hard driving or harsh conditions. Deal with airflow on the backside of the oil coolers first. Then worry about fans or larger units. Think as a race engine designer would think. I'd rather have overkill on my cooling systems than an overheated and wasted motor.
You may be fine on a 95* track day. You may be fine on a 100* track day. There will come a point in temperature though that you won't be fine at. Where exactly is this point though? If you overheated on a 100* day that was at 60% humidity but not on one that was 100* at 90% humidity, you'll get a pretty good idea. Humidity and temperature both play large roles in it and once you get to the 90's, that limit is close. I see no fault in the RB flash based on this scenario. I see an issue of the car being driving extremely hard for longer than it was intended for at hotter temperatures than it was intended for. I know there were other cars that were probably just fine but the one constant over the years on the track was that the rotaries would always have cooling issues first. That's the nature of the beast. They need special attention to be held up there.
If you want to drive your car on a track for 30+ minutes at high rpms like a race car, you need to look into cooling it down like a race car. I know you can say that "I've done this before and it was fine" etc etc.... So what? It's not doing it now and needs to be addressed. I don't look at the flash as a fault. Which flash is it? Is it their street flash or race flash? I would also never drive a car in this manner and still be running a cat. I'd run a straight pipe.
One thing the flash does is to lean things out for more power. Leaner is hotter and more power produces more heat. If you don't want the added possibilty of potential cat damage then you must not want more power. More power or more cat life. Pick one but it comes at the expense of the other. If you find a way to get both, patent it and get rich.
I agree with the comments about air not getting through the back of the oil coolers efficiently enough. It doesn't. The mounting brackets are straight behind the center of the coolers and immediately behind that is the wheel well liners. Air has a hard time getting through as a result. If you can't get air out of them efficiently, how much you have going to them on the front side is irrelevant. Fans on the oil coolers may help at low speeds as you really just need some kind of flow but they won't do anything at higher speeds if they can't help move additional air past the coolers due to blockage.
The water pump is definitely an issue that needs to be dealt with. I have no reservations in endorsing the Mazmart pump and feel everyone that owns an RX-8, tracked or street driven, should be using it. (Paul I'll tell you where to send my check for saying that!
) I believe that the water pump should be addressed before the radiator. The radiator can't cool efficiently if the water can't get to it due to pump cavitation. Upgrading the radiator can't hurt but the pump must come first. As long as you have a thermostat, you can't run too cold from a system that is too efficient. It will give you that extra headroom for hard driving or harsh conditions. Deal with airflow on the backside of the oil coolers first. Then worry about fans or larger units. Think as a race engine designer would think. I'd rather have overkill on my cooling systems than an overheated and wasted motor.You may be fine on a 95* track day. You may be fine on a 100* track day. There will come a point in temperature though that you won't be fine at. Where exactly is this point though? If you overheated on a 100* day that was at 60% humidity but not on one that was 100* at 90% humidity, you'll get a pretty good idea. Humidity and temperature both play large roles in it and once you get to the 90's, that limit is close. I see no fault in the RB flash based on this scenario. I see an issue of the car being driving extremely hard for longer than it was intended for at hotter temperatures than it was intended for. I know there were other cars that were probably just fine but the one constant over the years on the track was that the rotaries would always have cooling issues first. That's the nature of the beast. They need special attention to be held up there.
08-30-2007, 11:24 AM
#34
Registered
Which means that sustained high rpm use on a track in those weather conditions is even worse.
This isn't a new problem. The 3rd gen RX-7's would overheat idling in traffic in 90* heat.
This isn't a new problem. The 3rd gen RX-7's would overheat idling in traffic in 90* heat.
08-30-2007, 12:29 PM
#36
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the race flash runs even hotter than the street flash. Also, aftermarket cats are in general weaker than OEM cats.
08-30-2007, 03:26 PM
#37
agreed--thats also why as I am on a budget (so my wife says
) to do the pump 1st then do the radiator if needed. I probably wasnt clear in that--sorry. I also wonder Paul if the pump would benefit from a higher flow type of thermostat like the Milodan barrel design. i dont think anyone has them, but i was wondering --- sure would be nice to have less restriction on all that coolant that beatiful pump is flowing.
By the way my birthday is coming up (about the only thing lately that is!) and the short trip may be in order. I dont have temp problems, but I am not as bullet proof as I would like to be. (Maybe fi in the future??? maybe not --i hell just dont know yet--still researching--i like tracking and fi on the track is another ball of worms.)
Yall keep them in stock?
olddragger
) to do the pump 1st then do the radiator if needed. I probably wasnt clear in that--sorry. I also wonder Paul if the pump would benefit from a higher flow type of thermostat like the Milodan barrel design. i dont think anyone has them, but i was wondering --- sure would be nice to have less restriction on all that coolant that beatiful pump is flowing. By the way my birthday is coming up (about the only thing lately that is!) and the short trip may be in order. I dont have temp problems, but I am not as bullet proof as I would like to be. (Maybe fi in the future???
maybe not --i hell just dont know yet--still researching--i like tracking and fi on the track is another ball of worms.)Yall keep them in stock?
olddragger
08-30-2007, 07:21 PM
#39
don't bother following the thread ....
There's so much that goes into proper cooling. I wouldn't be quick to blame the flash although the premature cat death has a more logical correlation. You might pressure test your cooling system to ensure there isn't anything else going on.
The pump is available by phone call: 1 800 221 5156.
Paul.
The pump is available by phone call: 1 800 221 5156.
Paul.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
hufflepuff
Series I Wheels, Tires, Brakes & Suspension
6
05-30-2016 10:45 AM
duworm
Series I Wheels, Tires, Brakes & Suspension
1
10-01-2015 04:57 PM
tommy26Germany
Series I Trouble Shooting
11
09-29-2015 10:33 AM
