Renesis engine issues finally identified?
#228
#231
Out of NYC
iTrader: (1)
"Mazda tested their engines more than any of us ! So they know best ! There is no defect in the design ! Stock is perfect !"
Im premixing so Im pretty sure Im ok for now ... After scanning thru all the papers released so far from Mazda, Hmm, at least they know what really went wrong, lets just hope that the 09 will have longer life.
#232
Pump me up
Okay Renesis, I will premix you. I will 'upgrade' your water pump. I will feed you a 10-30 synthetic. I will drive out your carbon with my lead foot.
Will you live?
Surgery -- 2007 RX8 (2100 miles)
Will you live?
Surgery -- 2007 RX8 (2100 miles)
#234
No means yes
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A rough translation of the Japanese text accompanying the diagram:
So..
- better oil injection specifically to address apex seal lubrication (there you go, RG )
- a knock sensor that works??
- a variable redline????? (edit - nevermind, all this does is display the current redline on the tach based on coolant temp)
Use of the new e-mop increases oil supply accuracy and gas seal [= apex seal?] lubrication.
At the same time, the front and rear rotor housings each receive a twin knock detection system and a variable redline system, improving the range and stability of engine performance.
At the same time, the front and rear rotor housings each receive a twin knock detection system and a variable redline system, improving the range and stability of engine performance.
- better oil injection specifically to address apex seal lubrication (there you go, RG )
- a knock sensor that works??
- a variable redline????? (edit - nevermind, all this does is display the current redline on the tach based on coolant temp)
Last edited by CnnmnSchnpps; 03-14-2008 at 12:01 AM.
#238
road warrior
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I wonder what an engine that has received premix from the start would look like. Mine has had premix since about 2,000 miles on the clock, though I stopped for a few tanks in the middle due to the alarm about fuel pumps clogging. It's probably spent about 27,000 miles of it's 32,000 mile life on premix.
#240
Lubricious
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70% Light Aromatic Oil (Naptha) - good lubricant and decent cleaner (because it's aromatic)
29% Mineral Spirits - decent cleaning and the carbon formation preventer
38 parts per million (ppm) Boron - very effective barrier lubricant
900 ppm Phosporous - very effective barrier lubricant (and will not hurt cat at this level diluted in fuel)
1/2% 1, 2 ortho-Dichlorobenzene - friction reducer
1/4% 1, 4 para-Dichlorobenzene - friction reducer
Oil of wintergreen - for the scent
Red Dye - for the color
29% Mineral Spirits - decent cleaning and the carbon formation preventer
38 parts per million (ppm) Boron - very effective barrier lubricant
900 ppm Phosporous - very effective barrier lubricant (and will not hurt cat at this level diluted in fuel)
1/2% 1, 2 ortho-Dichlorobenzene - friction reducer
1/4% 1, 4 para-Dichlorobenzene - friction reducer
Oil of wintergreen - for the scent
Red Dye - for the color
Any consensus about the Phosphorus? This is the only part that worries me, as it's a known catalyst poison. Whether 900 ppm diluted to say, 4 or 5 ppm in gasoline, has any meaningful impact, I don't know. Anyone?
Other than that, the recent Mazda TSB/MSP seem to imply that a constant trickle of Naptha and spirits might not be such a bad idea to keep carbon deposits at bay. Seafoam is basically Naptha plus isopropyl alcohol.
Perhaps the most important question -- will my exhaust smell like Wint-O-Green?
#241
Is that the breakdown for MMO? If so, I used it ever few fill ups and swapped out a quart ever two or thee oil changes in my old Explorer. No it wasn't a rotary, but it had 268k on the clock and running smooth with the stock cat when I traded it in. Should have kept it for the beans they gave me in trade.
I'm using good old Idemitsu for the RX8 though
Oh yeah, Marvel Mystery oil will make your car smell minty fresh
I'm using good old Idemitsu for the RX8 though
Oh yeah, Marvel Mystery oil will make your car smell minty fresh
#242
Registered
Thread Starter
They actually just ran the hose into the runners in the carb under the throttleplate so it trickled in but it's all the same effect in the end.
#243
Got Another Rotary
Any consensus about the Phosphorus? This is the only part that worries me, as it's a known catalyst poison. Whether 900 ppm diluted to say, 4 or 5 ppm in gasoline, has any meaningful impact, I don't know. Anyone?
Other than that, the recent Mazda TSB/MSP seem to imply that a constant trickle of Naptha and spirits might not be such a bad idea to keep carbon deposits at bay. Seafoam is basically Naptha plus isopropyl alcohol.
Perhaps the most important question -- will my exhaust smell like Wint-O-Green?
Other than that, the recent Mazda TSB/MSP seem to imply that a constant trickle of Naptha and spirits might not be such a bad idea to keep carbon deposits at bay. Seafoam is basically Naptha plus isopropyl alcohol.
Perhaps the most important question -- will my exhaust smell like Wint-O-Green?
I think most of the phosphorous gets burned up in the combustion leaving very little ever reaching the cats - and this is not more than is already in normal SL motor oil anyways.
I agree MMO might be the perfect premix for the rotary - it needs the carbon cleaning.
And, yes it does make the exhaust smell like peppermint (I smelled it)
Seafoam is similar to MMO, but without the lubricity and barrier additives - many use MMO for this exact same procedure. It is very good for piston/ring soaks.
#244
Metatron
iTrader: (1)
JaxMan -
The subject is pre-mix, not snake oil.
MMO is not a good lubricant, and it has no place in any engine made after 1945.
Phosphorus is a catalyst poison - spin it anyway you like, it still kills cats.
Phosphorus cannot be "burned up" before reaching the cat - Physics 101 - the only way out is thru the cat, and it's not paper, it's an element, it is phosphorus forever.....
Your previous assertions that the dichloro-benzene components are "friction reducers" is just fantasy - they are just there to stop it getting slimy and moldy while sitting on the shelf. They have no uses as any kind of lubricant, no matter how much you want them to.......
MMO is a pitiful and antiquated form of WD-40 and I personally wouldn't use it in/on my lawnmower.
S
The subject is pre-mix, not snake oil.
MMO is not a good lubricant, and it has no place in any engine made after 1945.
Phosphorus is a catalyst poison - spin it anyway you like, it still kills cats.
Phosphorus cannot be "burned up" before reaching the cat - Physics 101 - the only way out is thru the cat, and it's not paper, it's an element, it is phosphorus forever.....
Your previous assertions that the dichloro-benzene components are "friction reducers" is just fantasy - they are just there to stop it getting slimy and moldy while sitting on the shelf. They have no uses as any kind of lubricant, no matter how much you want them to.......
MMO is a pitiful and antiquated form of WD-40 and I personally wouldn't use it in/on my lawnmower.
S
#245
Got Another Rotary
JaxMan -
The subject is pre-mix, not snake oil.
MMO is not a good lubricant, and it has no place in any engine made after 1945.
Phosphorus is a catalyst poison - spin it anyway you like, it still kills cats.
Phosphorus cannot be "burned up" before reaching the cat - Physics 101 - the only way out is thru the cat, and it's not paper, it's an element, it is phosphorus forever.....
Your previous assertions that the dichloro-benzene components are "friction reducers" is just fantasy - they are just there to stop it getting slimy and moldy while sitting on the shelf. They have no uses as any kind of lubricant, no matter how much you want them to.......
MMO is a pitiful and antiquated form of WD-40 and I personally wouldn't use it in/on my lawnmower.
S
The subject is pre-mix, not snake oil.
MMO is not a good lubricant, and it has no place in any engine made after 1945.
Phosphorus is a catalyst poison - spin it anyway you like, it still kills cats.
Phosphorus cannot be "burned up" before reaching the cat - Physics 101 - the only way out is thru the cat, and it's not paper, it's an element, it is phosphorus forever.....
Your previous assertions that the dichloro-benzene components are "friction reducers" is just fantasy - they are just there to stop it getting slimy and moldy while sitting on the shelf. They have no uses as any kind of lubricant, no matter how much you want them to.......
MMO is a pitiful and antiquated form of WD-40 and I personally wouldn't use it in/on my lawnmower.
S
Actually, everything I have stated is from many sources including BITOG, MMO's own forum Q&A, and Oil analysis. Take it for what it is is worth - as much data as I have been able to find, my actual results when using, and some opinion.
There are many that have used MMO and seen very good results, just like "musclecarconvrt" above, and at least no dead cats (with 268k on the odo) - so it may not be the next wonder drug, but it is also not the root of all evil either.
#246
Got Another Rotary
JaxMan -
MMO is not a good lubricant
Your previous assertions that the dichloro-benzene components are "friction reducers" is just fantasy - they are just there to stop it getting slimy and moldy while sitting on the shelf. They have no uses as any kind of lubricant, no matter how much you want them to.......
MMO is not a good lubricant
Your previous assertions that the dichloro-benzene components are "friction reducers" is just fantasy - they are just there to stop it getting slimy and moldy while sitting on the shelf. They have no uses as any kind of lubricant, no matter how much you want them to.......
(sorry, I could not help myself)
Just so that you know, dichlorobenzene is a "chlorinated hydrocarbon", one of several kinds of chlorinated hydrocarbons
In MMO, dichlorobenzene performs 3 functions:
- Extreme Pressure (EP) protection and friction reduction (lubricity). It is most commonly used for metal "cutting" oils.
- It aids the combustion process for more complete combustion
- When burned, it forms Hydrochloric Acid (this is the somewhat controversial part), but this by-product is in such small amounts that it is actually used up in preventing carbon from solidifying during the combustion process and in cleaning existing carbon out of your engine, so it does no harm to your engine metals.
On the EP/lubricity point, from a published study:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...1/ai_n21422243
And for the lazy ones -
"Chlorinated hydrocarbons are commonly added to a base lubricating fluid when it is used for extreme-pressure (EP) lubrication of ferrous metals. It is demonstrated here that the interfacial temperature in the EP regime varies linearly with the applied load in a pin and v-block testing apparatus and that temperatures in excess of 11000 K can be attained. Thermally decomposing chlorinated hydrocarbon vapors on iron heated to these temperatures (1) shows that a film consisting of an iron chloride which incorporates small carbon particles (~50Angstrom) is formed. In this paper, tribological measurements at extreme pressures and the corresponding analyses of the rubbing surfaces and wear particles also indicate that this film, formed from the chlorinated lubricant reacting with these surfaces, is the critical antiseizure material at less severe EP loads and interfacial temperatures less than ~1000 K"
Last edited by Jax_RX8; 03-20-2008 at 10:26 AM.
#247
StealthTL,
We all know how you feel about MMO. I don't know why you hate MMO so much, but your just dead wrong. Is it the best thing since sliced bread? No. Are their better alternatives for premixing in a rotary? Yes. I use Idemitsu. But I have run several cars and trucks over 100k miles and at least two well over 200k miles using Marvel Mystery oil as a cleaner and top cylinder lubricant and have never had to replace a catalitic converter. My engines have run smoother, lasted longer, and been cleaner on tear down with moderate use of MMO. It will help keep things cleaner. I use Idemitsu because our rotaries need more lub than a piston engine's top cylinder, but it isn't going to hurt a thing for those who want to use it.
Have a nice day
We all know how you feel about MMO. I don't know why you hate MMO so much, but your just dead wrong. Is it the best thing since sliced bread? No. Are their better alternatives for premixing in a rotary? Yes. I use Idemitsu. But I have run several cars and trucks over 100k miles and at least two well over 200k miles using Marvel Mystery oil as a cleaner and top cylinder lubricant and have never had to replace a catalitic converter. My engines have run smoother, lasted longer, and been cleaner on tear down with moderate use of MMO. It will help keep things cleaner. I use Idemitsu because our rotaries need more lub than a piston engine's top cylinder, but it isn't going to hurt a thing for those who want to use it.
Have a nice day
#248
Registered
Thread Starter
Actually for that Mazda just had a little Japanese man sit under the hood holding a nitrous bottle in his lap with the hose pointed at the air filter. He was the regulator.
#249
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As I said when I first joined this forum-- I did not think anything could make driving an RX-8 more fun, but this forum does.
I have been premixing since 1000 miles. I now have 38k miles. Passed compression test by mazda with flying colors.
New info. since I had guages installed.
In the summer with Houston temp. above 90 deg.
Water temp. at engine exit can get to 220-240 deg.
Oil temp can get to 240-260 deg.
My RX-8 still runs strong.
I have been premixing since 1000 miles. I now have 38k miles. Passed compression test by mazda with flying colors.
New info. since I had guages installed.
In the summer with Houston temp. above 90 deg.
Water temp. at engine exit can get to 220-240 deg.
Oil temp can get to 240-260 deg.
My RX-8 still runs strong.
#250
Out of NYC
iTrader: (1)
As I said when I first joined this forum-- I did not think anything could make driving an RX-8 more fun, but this forum does.
I have been premixing since 1000 miles. I now have 38k miles. Passed compression test by mazda with flying colors.
New info. since I had guages installed.
In the summer with Houston temp. above 90 deg.
Water temp. at engine exit can get to 220-240 deg.
Oil temp can get to 240-260 deg.
My RX-8 still runs strong.
I have been premixing since 1000 miles. I now have 38k miles. Passed compression test by mazda with flying colors.
New info. since I had guages installed.
In the summer with Houston temp. above 90 deg.
Water temp. at engine exit can get to 220-240 deg.
Oil temp can get to 240-260 deg.
My RX-8 still runs strong.
My car
outside temp, the hottest - 103
Water temp - 102 C
Oil Temp - 102 C