ASH8

This is all I can find on 09 S2 Oil Pressure from the USA Mazda Factory WS Manual..

Tells us nothing more than we already know, 72.5 PSI Hot Oil @ 3000 RPM, so yes if you own a S2 and want an OP Guage this is where you connect, like you would in S1 (Location Wise)

BTW: The 49 0187 280A Oil Pressure Tool Guage (Genuine Mazda) is the exact same one Mazda have sold/recommended....it is over 40 years old, design and part number wise.

"OIL PRESSURE INSPECTION"





Series 1 OP

ayrton012

I don't want to be wiser than you, I never told that I was the first to find these datas and drawings, but these are usually lost between the lot of not related or any other answers-questions in the thread.
I just want to find the solution, and let start the regulator spring shim projects, but it seems like it won't go without real life data.

Did I told that the emops are pump? No. But how much they regulate the max oil pressure as they are partly a regulators? Nobody knows until real life data.

TZ250

As far as I can tell from the flow diagram in the S2 highlights the OCV will have virtually no effect on engine oil pressure. It's only job is to keep the OP in the MOPs constant and the MOPs are moving insignificant amounts of oil. The OCV is certainly getting a little more than what is actually being pumped at the MOPs in terms of supply and diverting some to the oil pan. But unless the OCV design is totally in left field, it is still a minute ratio of the total oil being pumped, and has no real effect on the oil pressure. I conclude the OCV does not regulate oil pressure or act as a relief valve in any real sense. Did I miss something?

ASH8

Mate, it just gets repetitive what has already been asked ..It has nothing to do with who is "wiser"..

The only real life data will be from someone (S2 Owner) who installs an OP guage from the "blind" plug area.
To what...Oil Pressure data, well I beleive what the factory are saying it has been written on 3 separate documents, it is obvious they are referencing at the same point, they say a 50% increase at 3000 RPM and this is oil going into the engine from the rear end first.

The question can also be asked, how are Mazda's Specification Guages "calibrated"?, how accurate are they when compared to "aftermarket" owner add ons?, frankly IMO the Manufacturer's should be accurate. I just don't know if I believe the 50.8 PSI @3000 and 212F in Series 1 but IMO there is an OP issue with S1, and it is a fact that oil viscosity and oil temp does have a bearing on OP.

The OCV (spool design) does by pass oil back into the sump so you can call that whatever you want...
Yes, the ONLY Oil Pressure Switch is mounted on one EMOP, so the pressure is more significant than you think. So when your Dash Oil light comes on it is at this point and only point which monitors engine oil pressure and a warning light response.

The "regulating" the EMOP's do are when they are in Cleaning Mode when all returned oil goes to Oil Pan as a by pass it can not go anywhere else apart through Oil Nozzles for internal lubrication job.

Remember Oil goes from OCV to EMOP's/Oil Pressure Switch in that order. Oil is By passes or returned to the Oil Pan Sump at the OCV and from the EMOP's.

madcows

Just some thoughts...

We know that the S1 oil pump could supply more oil to the engine simply by increasing the by-pass limit of the regulators.

With that said, unless the S2 needed a significant increase in OP on the high end (beyond whatever point the old pump could no longer supply oil), then the main benefit of a pump with increased capacity is to increase the pressure/flow lower in the rev range. This has probably been done to satisfy the pressure requirement of the emop at various rev ranges, but is it possible the the rotors would benefit from an extra flow?

Ash, I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned, but with 22 pages worth of info in various threads (and for me, across different sites for different cars), but is the OP reading from the blind plug on an S2 when we see shortly after the pump, or is it post-OCV?

ASH8

Well, it is basically divided after Oil Filter...
From Oil Pump, to Oil Coolers, to Oil Filter, then it is Split to OCV/EMOP's and also to Rear Oil Intake (Blind Plug Area) into e-shaft.

All previous rotaries would go Oil Pump, Coolers, Rear By pass, Oil Filter, split Rear Intake into e-shaft and MOP.

TZ250

Thanks, Ash. Lots to learn. The whole concept of cleaning mode is new to me. I was unaware of it. I have to buy a workshop manual.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Its as accurate as their initial "250 hp" figure.

madcows

Very interesting...... So, when you gonna throw a gauge on yours?

TZ250

I tried to order a set for the '09 from RB. They told me they had no solution yet and would get back to me. That was 3 weeks ago. So much for customer service.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Buy a good gauge...electronic or manual...install on test plug hole in 09 with correct fitting

It ain't rocket science guys.....

It should be a lot easier than the 04-08's where you needed to make a spot for an oil connection

ASH8

I agree Dan,

The Blind plug is there to monitor or test your Oil Pressure, I am convinced it is at this point where Mazda References their results, as their Workshop manual says.

The blind plug is very simple and I again agree would be easier that S1's, I am thinking an 8 to 10 MM (Metric) fitting will do the job.

ASH8

...

That first pressure Guage (49 0187) Mazda say you can use is a really old Mazda Special Tool, we had one back in 1975, it first came out in 1969 (approx)!!, so yeah me thinks this one is the real deal...

ASH8

Bloody Hell... we are having a HEAT WAVE and it is still Spring!!..

36,38,39,39,38c , that is..96,100,102,102,100F!!
Hottest November on record!!

ASH8

I am considering it....

But like I said the 50% higher OP in S2 of 72.5 PSI @3000 RPM IMO is referenced from the same location as Series 1's, and we have to remember being USA manuals (info) I would think 5W20 engine oil would be used when taking data and at 212F...

As we know Oil Viscosity and Oil Temps can change results, so the guys who are comparing should be using 5W20 and on a Hot engine...

According to Mazda a S1 should be about 50.8 PSI @ 3000 RPM, 212F???

Well yes, and again it is pretty obvious that Mazda's Reference (72.5 PSI) is taken from that rear (Blind Plug) oil inlet location which goes to the e-shaft and rotors, the oil from this point does not go to any other device or any other purpose other than for internal engine lube, rotors, bearings...that is all..
The other diverted oil is at the front cover up to the external OCV and then to EMOP's.

When you look at a Series 1, at the same rear point the Oil is filtered, and then divided into the e-shaft and also along the top left of engine to the front cover mounted MOP also at a "lower" Oil Pressure...allegedly.

So IMO this is where the two Series RX-8's are totally different and this is the significant difference in engine Oil lubrication/Bearings and Oil Cooling.

ayrton012

Every S1 owner's gratitude will chase the first one.

PhillipM

-12AN, 10's would probably be fine but we went larger in case we ended up having to relocate the oil cooler further away.

I monitored the pressures this weekend when I had chance, if I set the idle to 850rpm, then the pressure sits about 36-37psi, at our normal 1050-1100rpm idle, it's 44-46psi.
~3000rpm gives 81psi, and it levels out at 90psi after 4.2krpm, just creeping up to 92 towards the limiter @ 9.6krpm.

bse50

I wonder why you see this pressure Phillip!
Is it possible that your 20b block (and maybe oil pan) play some role in it?

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Ash,

Thanks for the fantastic info on the oil pressure measuring point on the 09s.

I will reserve most statements regarding how any of it works on the 09s until we have ours apart and inspected.

Paul.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Sweet Paul--we await the data.
Wait PhilM has a 20B?
I have a 1200rpm idle and at oil temps of 190F with 40 wgt diesel i do not see that high of oil pressure-- mine being right at 30psi. At 3 K I am around 71-72 and max is 81 period. I take my readings from a sandwich plate at my remote oil filter site.
????????????????.
So if Phils gauge readings are correct he is getting more flow.
OD

ayrton012

20B??? What are you talking about? Is it a joke?
I'am thinking for two weeks why Phillip has 90 PSI pres, and you said he has a 20B.

ayrton012

Like mine, but my idle is 800 rpm, and i've got 17,4 PSI there.
As I told earlier If the lines diameters has any effect on the oil pressure we should see pressure fluctuation, as the by pass valves are opening and closing around 197 F oil temp, but my pressure are stable.

The only oil pressure fluctuation (huge) is between 122-140 oil temp, when the e-shaft pellet closes the bypass holes of the e-shaft. Keep the rpm constant at 2000 rpm, and see how the pressure goes up (with thinning!!!) as the oil temp gets from 122 to 140F.

PhillipM

No I haven't got a 20b, I think perhaps you are mixing me up with one of the other Phill's on here?

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Hmm, I'm curious if my pressure will change with the single cooler installed. Also, why have none of the 09' guys added an OP gauge when they have the perfect spot to do it.

madcows

I'm curious as to how much the OCV can affect the overall system pressure on the S2. It should be interesting when we finally get to see some OP readings. If we don't see much higher OP in the upper rev range, then it might be safe to say the higher capacity oil pump was implemented almost exclusively for the purpose of supplying the EMOP with the correct pressure under most conditions.