olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Well I cant stand it anymore. I have additional findings I have to throw out. I have a weak tolerance for holding newly discovered information.

Ok here it is and too me it is the most important finding of all.
not only did my oil pressure change(duh) but my OIL TEMPS did too.

You have to understand that I monitor my car constantly, and have the same driving patterns most days. I have been concerned with the cars coolant temps since 2004 and have been monitoring them (coolant and oil) since that time. I know my cars usual readings in all weather and situations.
I have not changed oil brands or viscosity for some time. So this is apple to apple comparison.

Before my oil temps during daily driving would always be 5-10 degrees F COOLER than my coolant. (I do have coolant mods). For example I have to drive to work in a mixture of suburban, interstate and city driving for about a total of 8 miles. When I turn onto the interstate ramp my engines coolant is usually around 140F and oil is around 130F. Interstate travel at this time of year and the cooler ambient temps usually gives me a coolant temp of 160F and a oil temp of 150-155F. When I get off the interstate (about 5 miles of travel)and go into city driving for about 3 miles my coolant will go up to 180F and oil will be at 170F give or take a few degrees. Less air flow.
Get the picture?

Since I have placed the mazmart kit my oil temps (once the engine is warmed) is now CONSISTANTLY WARMER THAN MY COOLANT. The interstate driving as stated BEFORE NOW has my oil temps at 170-175 versus coolant at 160F. My city driving as stated before is now showing 190F . THATS A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE. When this 1st occured I actually pulled over thinking that maybe I had an oil leak somewhere that was causing this. I was glad I didnt.
AND THATS NOT ALL.
My oil temps warm quicker. My oil temps warm quicker. In other words my temps warm faster than before lol. These are very good findings.

I also want to mention a subjective finding I have observed. I also hate when I do this but I feel it is important here. .....At certain rpms my engine has gone from being smooth to "silkalicious" . I noticed this the 1st time I drove it. It is hard to explain but I swear its there. I am pretty connected to my car and can notice these things. But, for forum discussion I hate subjective annoucements like this.
I did it anyway. I can always say i was under the influence of happiness

IMHO MY OIL IS NOW TRANSFERRING MORE HEAT AWAY FROM THE ENGINE. THAT WOULD INCLUDE THE ROTOR FACES PEOPLE.

I may even go so far as to conject that maybe it is possible that the increased oil flow/pressure has changed the dynamic balance of the rotors? That is the only thing I can think of that would explain my increased vacuum readings and the silkalicious feel. Thoughts??

Sorry Paul I HAD to throw this out.

These findings have changed what my 1st mod would be to a pre 09 RX8.
Now I would do this kit before I would address cooling issues . Its #! . Cooling mods would have to move to a very close #2. Probably better to do them both at one time?

Thats it---now to get a 150psi oil pressure gauge to see what my max pressures are--i expect 130-140psi at over 5-6K. My redline is 7.5K.

Whew------I have had a Merry Christmas with this.
Paul get a lot of these kits ready!
I am sure there will be much discussion and some may disagree with my thoughts. Thats ok--world needs all thoughts and opinions to keep on spinning.
olddragger

PhillipM

I'd be inclined to agree with that, and it ties in with all our previous research in these threads.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

That is good, what do you think will change during hard driving or higher ambient temps? So did this kit come with instructions?

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

Apologies for not following the flow schematics in detail, but I have a simple question - will this mod also increase flow across the oil coolers?

RenKat

More likely you are making more heat due to pumping losses.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

to install this kit all you do is remove your oil pan and unscrew the rear bypass and replace it with the one Paul gives you. Then on the front it is just unbolt the spring cap, remove the spring and piston(it drops down) and then insert the washers into the piston and then reinstall. Very simple. The replace your oil filter with the one from mazda for the 09 + model.

Oil cooler flow is not thought at this time to be an issue. Paul did have time to think about this one.
olddragger

PhillipM

Must be doing something if there's a 15psi pressure drop across those and the lines at the stock pressure though...

ayrton012

There are a lot of new findings and informations. Same oil pump's rotor thickness, way better lubricating (cooling), very high oil pressure at 1500 rpm (S2). That's great!!!

Maybe we would have to mod all of the S1 and send the invoice to Mazda Japan.


Of course.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

RenKat--- explain pumping losses?
If you mean its has more resistance now thats true--but to point out--it is has no more resistance that previous rotary engines?
Plus it is a fixed volumne pump so it doesnt care where the oil goes--its going to pump the same volumne regardless.
I cant see where the oil pump is causing this much more heat in the oil?
OD

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

So the washer go between the piston and the spring or you put the washers in first then the spring and the piston? Sorry, I am trying to get a visual.

madcows

Also, since no where near as much oil is able to sneak through the bypass anymore, more oil is being used for lube, and cooling. I almost can't believe Mazda neglected a substantial amount of cooling capacity.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

inside the piston--so between the piston and spring. The front bypass is mounted vertically so when you remove that cap the sping will drop out, the pistong may not due to its oil film. Just get a little pick and help it out.
Read up on uninstalling and reinstalling the oil pan--there are a couple little things you need to pay attention too. Nothing hard.
OD

madcows

Pay up, suckers!

RenKat

How much oil volume do you think you can get through the bearings?
There is a point of diminishing returns, more pressure won’t get more oil flow through the bearings.
And when this happens you make heat.
One purpose of the oil bypass is to maintain oil flow through the oil coolers.
I still say that oil temp is more of a problem than oil pressure.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

never wanted increase oil pressure--wanted increased oil flow. but the only way to get it without internal oil passage mods is to increase the pressure.
increased flow to the bearing can occur and has--increased flow through the bearings is dependant upon the capacity of the passageways and tolerances. increased flow TO the bearing will help with internal cooling of the bearing by convection--not as good as modifing the passages/etc but a help non the less.
We didnt make more heat--we are taking more heat away.
Havent you ever done the front stationary gear oil supply mod on the older rotary engines in which rather than letting the internal oil passage ways supply the oil (many 90 degree turns) you run a straight line outside the engine from the rear oil filter area to the fron stationary gear housing? Why is that done? Because if the engine is seeing a lot of high rpm use as in racing then it was found that the front stationary bearing was lacking enough flow because of the several 90 degree turns the internal passeways had. You can substract 2-5psi of pressure for every 90 degree turn to have. Pressure does relate to flow. So to solve this the straight line was ran.
Now with this engine how many times over a period of YEARS does this engine see +8K rpms?
if you add them all up it probably would amount to a lot. Especially the guys that do track weekends, autocrosses and even mountain/canyon driving. The purpose of that mod was to increase the amount of oil supply to the bearing area--not to increase the oil flow through the bearing. IMHO oil viscosity has a more important role with the bearing wear itself. Promoting flow around the bearing area has more to do with removing heat.

One thing to keep in mind also is that the oil passageways seem to be draining the oil back to the sump pan without issues. Thats good too!

Point is the internal lubrication system on this engine needs help for the enthusianst way of driving. This kit addresses some of the issues. I firmly believe that now.
The oil coolers bypass is beening evaulated. 9K has/had some interesting stuff in that regard. It all continues.
In the summer with triple digit temps I may need to upgrade a oil cooler--dont know yet. My normal coolant temps for a triple digit summer day is less than 200F. We shall see.
Olddragger

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I am curious if I do this with my single cooler could I see too much pressure? I guess I can try it and see, it's not a permanent mod.

ASH8

Great results Denny...
I agree this now would be the First mod to do..

It is obvious Mazda F@%$ Up the RENESIS 1 Oil Pressure, the 2 Oil Coolers and all those bendy oil lines Robbing Oil Pressure/Flow...and don't forget the 5W20.

You could install the FC or FD Turbo Oil Pump Rotor Set for increased flow, but it is a lot more work to do that one..

The By Pass Valve Mod is one of the easiest.

MNAO should be modding all the reman engines.

silkalicious,

longpath

iTrader: (1)

Hope the kit is ready for mass sales soon. It's definitely something I'm wanting for mine.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

http://www.mazmart.com/ItemDetail.aspx?id=586

Paul .

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

Wasn't looking for an issue of any kind - just hoping that if indeed the bypass mod pulls more heat out of the motor, that we would also have an increase in flow rate over the oil coolers to extract that added heat from the oil. Is that the case or is the flow rate over the coolers unchanged?

One other question - did you see a drop in coolant temperatures with the mod? It would seem that if the oil is pulling more heat out, the coolant would be pulling less and therefore cooler than it was before the mod.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

We are convinced now that the oil is drawing more temperature from the rotor internals and the real evidence will be when the system is taxed (Like in the summertime as 'od' said). The water side should have a lesser burden.

We are thinking about the best approach for the cooler/s. We have done them regularly before but we need to make things practical for the end user.

Paul.

madcows

With the stock lines/coolers, many of us think that without the front bypass mod, oil is being redirected to the sump before it even hits the coolers, so modding both should certainly create more flow through the coolers.

Also, I believe someone posted on 9K's single oil cooler thread Racing Beat's oil cooler lines. They supposedly claim that the coolers are pretty good, but the problem lies in the lines (and banjo bolts?).

madcows

If oil goes squirting out the front and rear seals, then you have too much pressure

Racing Beat's 1000HP car had over 100psi OP. This mod is really starting to sound

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

The front bypass was modded with 2 specific sized washers--so it would stand to reason that more flow would occur through the coolers if the oil cooler bypass is allowing it--which i think it does? i am not certain. Paul will be monitoring this closely and as warmer ambient temps come around I will also be playing close attention to that also.
I do need to see what max pressure is--anyone have any ideas? I will get a 150psi gauge just cant right now--no time with Christmas and work

No noticeable change in coolant temps at this point. Imho thats a good thing.
If anyone decides to do this --do not forget the 09 oil filter.
OD

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Just ordered mine, now I gotta get an 09' Filter Hopefully I don't see too much pressure with my single cooler.