9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

When I install the RE-medy OP kit I will be sending in a sample of Mobil1 0W-40 with about 2500 miles on it.

Spirograph

Yeah, I'd love to see what effect the magnets have on a uao compared to a test with the same mileage, and driving conditions. If the purpose of your uao is to check for metal content to see which parts are wearing down and need to be rebuilt, you'd want to test oil that was run without the magnets attached. If anyone is posting results to the uao results thread, please mention if you are using magnets on your filter and/or sump.

ASH8

All Mazda Oil Filters for the past 35 years or so have been 'Full Flow Types', meaning all the Oil Supplied to the Oil Filter Goes through the oil filter's paper cone filter.

The only time the Oil is By Passed is when the filter paper is restricted or blocked (too old), the Filter Cone is then lifted up (about 4 mm) so that engine oil will still flow, but, won't be filtered.

An issue as I see it is when S2 RX-8 owners use a non genuine or after market filter that has a much lower by pass pressure.
From what I can tell if this filter is only a few hundred miles old the engines higher oil pressure and flow may cause the filter cone to lift and by pass without filtering your Oil...and you would Never Know!..BAD..

This is another reason why I will stick with the Mazda factory S2 Oil Filter for my S2, all the non-genuine filters listed say it is the same as the Series 1, which is totally incorrect.

Using an S2 filter on an S1 could have complications also IF the owner does not regularly change their Oil Filter as the S2 filter cone becomes blocked there may not be enough engine oil pressure to lift the cone and by pass oil...yet another problem!!

If you have done the Engines Oil Pan By Pass Valve mod like OD, then you have higher oil pressure and hence an S2 filter should be fine to use.

So, NEVER put an S1 Oil Filter of ANY Kind on a S2 engine.

And ONLY put an S2 Oil Filter on a S1 if you have Higher Oil Pressure than the standard spec.

Spirograph

"We also --for those that track--need the latest baffles in the sump pain"

I didn't see, did someone post a link to compatible sump baffle mod parts for S1?

Spirograph

How does Rotella Heavy Duty 15-40 Diesel oil compare to Valvoline Blue 15-40 Diesel oil?
Do both meet the minimum specs/ratings required for falling under the Mazda USA's needed to preserve the 100K warranty?

Also, if I installed the pressure bypass valve kit and switched to '09 OEM filters, would those be issues of contention in 100K warranty honoring by Mazda USA? The filter would be easy to swap on the spot before bringing it in, but if you left the bypass kit installed, would they be able to deduce that it is installed if they read the oil pressure during diagnostic tests for a car brought in for low compression?

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I doubt very seriously the dealer would even notice anything was changed.

Flashwing

If you tell the dealer you are running anything other than 5w-20 non-synthetic or that you have altered any part of the oil system I can almost promise they will void your engine warranty.

Spirograph

Are you sure? The 5W-20 is "recommended", but they allow for you to choose depending on the climate where you live. I'm in AZ too, so I think it would be okay to run something higher since 120 F is the max ambient temp for 5-20. I've heard that dealerships are more often now asking for receipts. Wouldn't they be able to tell that you were running something else just by looking at the descriptions or item #'s listed on the receipts? I'm pretty sure many of those people delivering receipts are running other than 5-20.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

dealers are different from one another--thats for sure. heck in my hometown in ga -even the dealer does not put 5w/20 oil in. Seriously.
no one ever questions (at a dealership) the engines oil pressure. They do not have a way of checking it unless they remove the oem one and then attach a special tool. I have never seen one do this, or heard of one doing this.

It would be my luck though that i would be the 1st it would happen too.

Is there anything in the shop manual diagnostic section that instructs the tech to check the oil pressure?

And arent dealerships instructed to not open the engines?
the georgia RX8 club is having a tech day in which several members are doing this mod.

Forgot --the shell diesel oil is an excellent choice. Another member here in ga uses it.

olddragger

Spirograph

Aside from the oil viscosity, I think something that definitely could create a problem with warranty claims for people doing the oil system upgrade, is lack of receipts for acceptable oil filters for the S1. Since you want to use the S2 filters for the increased bypass pressure, that's the only receipts that you'd have available. And I can't imagine that Mazda wouldn't take issue with using S2 filters on an S1.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

on what grounds?
OD

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Trust me they are not going to look at what type of filter you are using. You think Jiffy Lube uses the best filters? They accept those receipts without issue (trust me on this ). Hell on my second motor they didn't ask for ****. The dealers are all over the map.

Spirograph

Hmm, looks like I posted my last thought only half-baked. I was thinking of the reverse situation; i.e., having an oil filter bypass that was triggered at too low of a level; as you would have if running an S1 filter on an S2. But, couldn't they say that the filter isn't properly matched, and that the higher pressure oil filter bypass created a lack of oil flow due to blockage, resulting in starvation?

FWIW, if ordering a 10 pack of S2 filters with the bypass kit, it may be prudent to order separately so the bypass kit doesn't show on the same itemized receipt.

If this mod becomes widespread enough, dealers might start testing OP if they're really in the business of hunting for reasons to void warranties.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

You give the dealers way too much credit, they would never drop a pan and look for this mod. They are not even allowed to pull a motor apart if it fail the compression test.

Spirograph

Thanks for the replies. Regarding the Jiffy Lube filters, I hear what you're saying. But my concern (in regards to warrany) isn't about the inherent quality of the filter, but about the bypass pressure rating of the filter. I'm assuming that Fram, Mobil1, and K&N filters for the S1 all match the S1 OEM bypass pressure range, correct?

ganseg

iTrader: (5)

Still seeing less milky stuff in your oil, OD? It is bad for me in MN. Thankfully this is the first winter this car has been driven.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

less---BUT i just covered BOTH oil coolers with some old cut to size magnetic race panels with the race numbers showing (looks kinda cool) because the morning temps in Ga are now down in the 30's. This did help push my oil temps up to between 180 and 200F on the way to work on those chilly mornings. As a result I am seeing less and less of that condensation.
I am beginning to think this is a real issue.

Theoridical scenario:

cold morning start. Your car has a 40W oil --you start it. I believe the oil's viscosity during the really cooler temps is too thick to freely flow through the oil filters medium on a cold start. If this is true then this would cause the filters bypass to activate. Now that means oil is flowing through the engine that is unfiltered...........
Thats means that the condensation that is present in the oil will also be circulating through the engine. There is a lot more of this stuff than what shows on the dipstick. If you dont believe it then just drop the oil pan on that cold engine. I think the amount would surprise people. Now you have to realize some engines would have more than others. Any circulating would not be good. I believe if this is occuring then over time and many cold starts this could be causing some problems.
This condensation also contains fuel and other nasty stuff that usually gets boiled off during driving. How long it take to get boiled off is dependant on the oils temperture. The hotter the oil the quicker it boils out.
My 1st used oil analysis results verified that enough of this stuff was present to adversly affect my oils viscosity in 2.5K miles. That caused me to take a second look at this. i am still looking and will do another uoa in 3K.
olddragger

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yes, I can't wait to see my UOA. I can't wait until Feb or March when it gets hot gain.

ganseg

iTrader: (5)

I have mine covered and still get the milky stuff with my 20 mile drive to work and revving it up near the end. I would love to find a soln to shut off the flow outside of my engine either for winter or if oil temp is below some level. Probably the former.

I am not a mechanically inclined guy but i am motivated to do something. THis is the first winter for my car and I don't want to be the guy that ruins it! In the mean time, i will keep up what I am doing. (covered coolers, longer drives, revving at end, 2000 mile oil changes.)

Any more experienced or talented folks got some ideas for me?

turborx8

iTrader: (1)

Ok so all we need is the RE-medy Oil Pressure Kit and our oil pressure issues are solved?

If so it seems like a cheap fix.

Flashwing

Perhaps, if you are convinced that there are pressure "problems" in the first place.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

please remember its not increased oil pressure we seek---its better oil flow.
proper viscosity and increased oil flow is believed to be needed for those that track/autocross/drag/or have frequent episodes of spirited driving Most of the data that we have been speaking about has been subjective in nature, BUT objective data is starting to surface.
The 09's oil system/flow was totally redesigned--why? 09+ cars have much higher oil pressures than earlier models----why? it cost them big bucks to change.
previous rotor engines had higher pressure etc etc-- for those interested read this entire thread.
Is this the holy grail for the renasis engine--No its not.
monitoring the oil through analysis on a consistent basis will help to determine the benefit of this easy low cost mod.
My 1st one BEFORE this mod was installed --on a new engine and 2.5K miles traveled was surprising. It caused me to change some things in the way i drive and in getting the oil to a higher temp during these cooler months. The next one is 1.5K miles away and will be the 1st one after the bypass's were modifiec.
OD.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

Ran into my local rotary guru tonight. He was rebuilding his 380 hp FD/REW at a shop I frequent. This guy is quite knowledgeable about rotaries, has great fabrication skills (he made my mid-pipe, and it's a thing of beauty) and oh yeah, he is a mechanical engineer in his day job, but don't count that against him LOL.

While I was looking at his disassembled REW (first time I'd seen one in person, BTW), I mentioned this discussion and the rapid bearing wear problem we have been seeing. Without my prompting him, he volunteered that the key was to keep the pressure high, over 120 psi. I looked him in the eye and said "to keep the flow high - correct?" and he said yes – keep flow and heat removal high. I mentioned the Mazmart mod, and he agreed it was the right thing to do. That, and install Mazcomp bearings with their oversize galley, but that last one is a little more work.

He also mentioned that the mod should result in more rapid oil heating, again without my pointing out OD's experiece in that matter.

No, he’s not a Renesis guru, but it’s another data point that reinforces what Paul & company are doing.

Also, as a data point, he uses Redline 20w-50, but he did point out that his is a rather extreme applicaiton, with the heavily tracked & boosted FD, and that he wouldn't necessarily reccomend that for a street & stock Renesis.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Good info. I will time how long it takes for my oil to reach normal (for the cold we are experimenting) operating temps that way I can measure it after I install the RE-medy mod.

Flashwing

The problem is we're grasping at straws for the reasons why the oil system was redesigned. Since we don't have a resident Mazda engineer here to tell us why certain things were done we're more or less pissing in the wind making guesses.

I'm not trying to raid on anyone's parade here. These kinds of things are helpful but since we don't really know what's going on inside the motor it's anyone's guess. I just want to make sure we're not, as a community, jumping to conclusions too quickly. If this is a fix for this car I'm all for getting behind it.

In general I've just grown tired of products being released claiming to fix something or provide a performance benefit with no data or facts to justify it.

Again, I'm not making any claims about anyone in particular but just being the guy who wants answers just like everyone else.

Edit:

Just saw this: I'm curious as to WHY there is rapid oil heating. If it's due to the volume being reduced cause of pressure (which causes heat) then that's an easy one to explain. If it's because the oil spends less time in the coolers then I worry for high heat situations like the track or harsh climates. Either situation could and very well might result in a cooler upgrade which would be a PITA in my opinion.

His 20w-50 sounds like it's a bearing decision. If he's running larger oil gallies then the increased viscosity might be a need. This is one situation where he's building the engine for a certain spec and the oil needs to match.

Don't forget everyone that you get increased flow and heat sheding through a thinner viscosity as well :-).