renesis removal/rebuild
#102
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What Mazda have recognised is the poor lubrication of the centre area of the Apex seals, hence the 3rd (middle) oil injector for series II RX-8's.
Let's see, the Renesis was released in 2003, the Series II car in 2009. So are we saying that it was in the 41st year, or the 46th, that Mazda pooled nearly a half-century of learning to realize that a 3rd oil injector was necessary?
I am disappointed that they did not discover this before the RENESIS release as a poor reputation is hard to shrug off. They've earned it.
Mazda was relying on a new generation of rotary fans (youth) to re-lite a revolution.
Let's see, the Renesis was released in 2003, the Series II car in 2009. So are we saying that it was in the 41st year, or the 46th, that Mazda pooled nearly a half-century of learning to realize that a 3rd oil injector was necessary?
I am disappointed that they did not discover this before the RENESIS release as a poor reputation is hard to shrug off. They've earned it.
Mazda was relying on a new generation of rotary fans (youth) to re-lite a revolution.
This is my fourth Mazda, so I think I have demonstrated a fair amount of brand loyalty. And I have had very few problems. So why am I carping? Because we sports car fans need every reasonably priced product we can get, and how many auto companies have been willing to even get involved? ($Half-million doesn't count.) And now we have Global Warming and The Great Depression, Part II. How many more affordable, mainstream enthusiast automobiles are we likely to see in the next decade? I do not think Ford is going to look too kindly on this chain of events.
We have needed every model we could get, and not only affordable ones, but reliable and economical ones (within reason). We need them even more now.
#103
Super Moderator
Good info. I have to believe that for whatever reason the average 8 runs consistently warmer than 207, to see the amount of cracking at the sparkplug holes that I have seen in the engines I have thus far. Either something about the quality of the rotorhousing has changed (for the worse), or the temps in that area are higher than those in previous rotaries (including the aforementioned hot-running FD which sees 10psi boost in stock form), because of the severity of this issue at relatively low mileage.
All the series II RX-8's now have two oil coolers (Australian spec, auto and manuals only had one) with larger intake area and a larger radiator air flow intake (hence the larger grille), I am not sure yet if the actual oil coolers and radiator are larger in size, or if Mazda have adjusted the electric fan(s) on/off temp range.
As far as spark plug/housing cracking goes, we know that rotaries generate a lot of heat around that plug area, could the Iridium spark plugs generate more heat then previous NGK's?
Also on the subject of heat, I would like your opinion on all the plastic engine/battery (etc) covers in the engine bay. I wonder how efficiently heat is extracted away, rather than "hanging" around particularly when the car is stationary.
#104
Super Moderator
I don't think they were going after the youth market with a 4-door, 4-seat car. They were going after Yuppies with kids: "Hey, you can have a family and a career and a midlife crisis (sports car). But that's beside the point. RR is right. I first had an RX-7 (two, actually) as a daily driver beginning in 1984. It was fun, quick if not fast, nimble...and reliable. I think Mazda has seized defeat from the jaws of victory with our car. Yes, I do love driving it and, lucky for me, I have needed only a water pump in 70k miles. However, I doubt that many drive the car as gently as I (uh, most of the time).
This is my fourth Mazda, so I think I have demonstrated a fair amount of brand loyalty. And I have had very few problems. So why am I carping? Because we sports car fans need every reasonably priced product we can get, and how many auto companies have been willing to even get involved? ($Half-million doesn't count.) And now we have Global Warming and The Great Depression, Part II. How many more affordable, mainstream enthusiast automobiles are we likely to see in the next decade? I do not think Ford is going to look too kindly on this chain of events.
We have needed every model we could get, and not only affordable ones, but reliable and economical ones (within reason). We need them even more now.
This is my fourth Mazda, so I think I have demonstrated a fair amount of brand loyalty. And I have had very few problems. So why am I carping? Because we sports car fans need every reasonably priced product we can get, and how many auto companies have been willing to even get involved? ($Half-million doesn't count.) And now we have Global Warming and The Great Depression, Part II. How many more affordable, mainstream enthusiast automobiles are we likely to see in the next decade? I do not think Ford is going to look too kindly on this chain of events.
We have needed every model we could get, and not only affordable ones, but reliable and economical ones (within reason). We need them even more now.
Remember around 50% of all RX-8's are sold in North America.
Yes, I totally agree with you on wanting affordable enthusiast cars, and am very concerned on the future of Mazda and the Auto Industry now we have this "Financial CRISIS", aren't you sick of hearing about it..already!..
Personally, and sadly, I am almost certain Mazda will be shelving any new RX-8 or rotary for some time until alternative fuels (hydrogen) becomes mainstream.
Why, the face lift RX-8 sales have been very disappointing, 355 a month in the US and 40 a month in Australia, 150 in Japan, and I am guessing about the same in Europe, so we are talking about 9000 units a year, not enough to warrant a new model, unfortunately, and again the high gas price has almost killed any type of new fuel guzzler.
#105
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iTrader: (3)
well at least i live in a part of the country were i am able to get the temps to 180F and never cooler than 165F ---even on track with ambiet of mid 70's. Street temps are that even in the high 90's. Just takes a few little mods to do it.
Nice info--thanks .
following with interest
OD
Nice info--thanks .
following with interest
OD
#106
Hmmmmmm.........
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Well, I bought myself a second hand engine as a backup for my tired, low compression current engine. The "new" engine is supposed to be off an '04 model that was pulled with 10,000km's on the clock due to low compression. I bought in from someone interstate so had a rotary shop check it out. Their opinion was the engine was fine, it was just carboned up (especially the apex seals).
Here are some pics I took of the rotors. I haven't yet taken the housings out of the packaging.
Curious what people think.
Cheers
Andrew
Here are some pics I took of the rotors. I haven't yet taken the housings out of the packaging.
Curious what people think.
Cheers
Andrew
#108
Hmmmmmm.........
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Last one and I have a few questions on it.
Is the flame front moving from left to right in this picture?
What is the "hole" right near the tip?
What causes the "tappering" of the carbon build up on the outsides towards the tip?
Cheers
Andrew
Is the flame front moving from left to right in this picture?
What is the "hole" right near the tip?
What causes the "tappering" of the carbon build up on the outsides towards the tip?
Cheers
Andrew
#109
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#110
Lubricious
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Here's my wild guess -- The tapering is from oil that wept past the apex seal; enough to keep carbon from sticking there. This would indicate the direction of rotation would have that rotor rotating from left to right as it sits on the table. The little hole in the carbon in the center of the rotor face just past the seal would be from a puff of hot compressed gas exiting the spark plug recess, being released as the seal moves past.
#111
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iTrader: (3)
i dont think there is enough oil there to cause a difference in carbon deposits like that. that hole is from the leading sparkplug.
the patterns of the carbon is almost exactly like the different heat ranges on the rotor face during combustion?
that is a lot of carbon for that many miles--the sides are more interesting to me.
look and see how much carbon is in the lead sparkplug area on the housing.
i wonder what compression that engine ended up having!
it sure could have used a water meth system
OD
the patterns of the carbon is almost exactly like the different heat ranges on the rotor face during combustion?
that is a lot of carbon for that many miles--the sides are more interesting to me.
look and see how much carbon is in the lead sparkplug area on the housing.
i wonder what compression that engine ended up having!
it sure could have used a water meth system
OD
#113
Super Moderator
Andrew are you positive that RENY has only done 10,000KM (6,000 miles) ?
That is a lot of carbon for a very low mileage.
What did the owner do, stay under 2500 RPM all it's life, is it a 6 or 4 port, I guess a 4 from an Auto.
Most dealers here are throwing away the old engines and or give them away if you know the right person.
That is a lot of carbon for a very low mileage.
What did the owner do, stay under 2500 RPM all it's life, is it a 6 or 4 port, I guess a 4 from an Auto.
Most dealers here are throwing away the old engines and or give them away if you know the right person.
#114
We will just try to help each other out
#115
Hmmmmmm.........
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Ash, as far as I know it was 10,000km. At worst it was 20,000km.
Its a 6 port and in the early days, all engine pulled HAD to go back to Mazda Australia for "research".
bes50, what are you picking the engine up for? If they are cheap I would definately be hoarding them because they are rare as hens teeth in most places.
I will hopefully get a chance to pull the housings out next week and post some pics up.
Cheers
Andrew
Its a 6 port and in the early days, all engine pulled HAD to go back to Mazda Australia for "research".
bes50, what are you picking the engine up for? If they are cheap I would definately be hoarding them because they are rare as hens teeth in most places.
I will hopefully get a chance to pull the housings out next week and post some pics up.
Cheers
Andrew
#116
I'm picking them up to help the italian community. If they break an engine i give them a freshly rebuilt one and they give me their broken one + cash to rebuild it.
With 0 income and such it is not a business, but you realize that paying something between 9000 and 12000€ for a new engine makes rebuilds pretty cheap!
With 0 income and such it is not a business, but you realize that paying something between 9000 and 12000€ for a new engine makes rebuilds pretty cheap!
#117
http://img.ircimages.com/ircimages/1...555e9ccb40.jpg
http://img.ircimages.com/ircimages/e...b7fa81434f.jpg
#118
Polish-American Hammarrrr
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exactly. omp injects on the sides, so thats where it's clean. Here's mine with 50k miles:
http://img.ircimages.com/ircimages/1...555e9ccb40.jpg
http://img.ircimages.com/ircimages/e...b7fa81434f.jpg
http://img.ircimages.com/ircimages/1...555e9ccb40.jpg
http://img.ircimages.com/ircimages/e...b7fa81434f.jpg
Just curious...Are you the original owner? What oil do you use? Change intervals?
#122
Super Moderator
exactly. omp injects on the sides, so thats where it's clean. Here's mine with 50k miles:
http://img.ircimages.com/ircimages/1...555e9ccb40.jpg
http://img.ircimages.com/ircimages/e...b7fa81434f.jpg
http://img.ircimages.com/ircimages/1...555e9ccb40.jpg
http://img.ircimages.com/ircimages/e...b7fa81434f.jpg
Do you mind me asking what was your regime of ownership...like
1.Did you pre-mix..and if so what ratio.
2.What engine oils did you use.
3.Type of Gas and Octane.
4.How did you drive it what were you rev ranges.
Was the re-build because of low compressions or other?
Look forward to your reply,
Ash
#123
YES Mate, your rotors look very clean for an engine that has done nearly 90,000KMS (50,000 miles)..
Do you mind me asking what was your regime of ownership...like
1.Did you pre-mix..and if so what ratio.
2.What engine oils did you use.
3.Type of Gas and Octane.
4.How did you drive it what were you rev ranges.
Was the re-build because of low compressions or other?
Look forward to your reply,
Ash
Do you mind me asking what was your regime of ownership...like
1.Did you pre-mix..and if so what ratio.
2.What engine oils did you use.
3.Type of Gas and Octane.
4.How did you drive it what were you rev ranges.
Was the re-build because of low compressions or other?
Look forward to your reply,
Ash
20,000 miles turbocharged (9-12 psi, so 280-350 whp range)
-------------------------------
50,000 miles total
Rebuild done because of mazsport ignition coils + detonation cracking the front iron (See rebuild thread for details). Engine still ran fine, had normal compression. When it was being rebuilt, I expected further damage, but everything was OK besides the cracked front iron, which wouldn't even be an issue if it wasn't for the fact that oil was leaking from it. I had already bought all new parts, and with 20% restocking fee for most of it, I decided to use the new parts even though the engine didn't need them... so my engine is pretty much brand new. Only the center and rear iron, and rotors were retained from the old engine. All new seals, all new gaskets, all new rotor housings.
I premix at 4-6 oz per tank. FP+ and Idemitsu.
I use the sohn adaptor, and run synthetic oil in the engine. I used to use 10w30, I now run 10w40.
I change coolant, transmission oil, spark plugs, and coils once a year.
oil is changed every 2500-3000 miles.
I now use the accessport and increased omp flow rates, but that came after the rebuild, so it doesn't count.
only 93 octane due to the turbo. I boost all the time with it.
see my sig for the photos and rebuild threads.
rebuild video, including what the cracked iron looked like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDgJZA0aI5E
I dare say that most people do not take care of their rx-8 like I do.
#124
btw, I didn't mean to throw this thread off topic. RotaryResurrection does great work and I was actually very close to having him rebuild my engine. We ran into some logistics issues and so it wasn't meant to be.
#125