renesis removal/rebuild
#126
Super Moderator
30,000 miles NA
20,000 miles turbocharged (9-12 psi, so 280-350 whp range)
-------------------------------
50,000 miles total
Rebuild done because of mazsport ignition coils + detonation cracking the front iron (See rebuild thread for details). Engine still ran fine, had normal compression. When it was being rebuilt, I expected further damage, but everything was OK besides the cracked front iron, which wouldn't even be an issue if it wasn't for the fact that oil was leaking from it. I had already bought all new parts, and with 20% restocking fee for most of it, I decided to use the new parts even though the engine didn't need them... so my engine is pretty much brand new. Only the center and rear iron, and rotors were retained from the old engine. All new seals, all new gaskets, all new rotor housings.
I premix at 4-6 oz per tank. FP+ and Idemitsu.
I use the sohn adaptor, and run synthetic oil in the engine. I used to use 10w30, I now run 10w40.
I change coolant, transmission oil, spark plugs, and coils once a year.
oil is changed every 2500-3000 miles.
I now use the accessport and increased omp flow rates, but that came after the rebuild, so it doesn't count.
only 93 octane due to the turbo. I boost all the time with it.
see my sig for the photos and rebuild threads.
rebuild video, including what the cracked iron looked like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDgJZA0aI5E
I dare say that most people do not take care of their rx-8 like I do.
20,000 miles turbocharged (9-12 psi, so 280-350 whp range)
-------------------------------
50,000 miles total
Rebuild done because of mazsport ignition coils + detonation cracking the front iron (See rebuild thread for details). Engine still ran fine, had normal compression. When it was being rebuilt, I expected further damage, but everything was OK besides the cracked front iron, which wouldn't even be an issue if it wasn't for the fact that oil was leaking from it. I had already bought all new parts, and with 20% restocking fee for most of it, I decided to use the new parts even though the engine didn't need them... so my engine is pretty much brand new. Only the center and rear iron, and rotors were retained from the old engine. All new seals, all new gaskets, all new rotor housings.
I premix at 4-6 oz per tank. FP+ and Idemitsu.
I use the sohn adaptor, and run synthetic oil in the engine. I used to use 10w30, I now run 10w40.
I change coolant, transmission oil, spark plugs, and coils once a year.
oil is changed every 2500-3000 miles.
I now use the accessport and increased omp flow rates, but that came after the rebuild, so it doesn't count.
only 93 octane due to the turbo. I boost all the time with it.
see my sig for the photos and rebuild threads.
rebuild video, including what the cracked iron looked like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDgJZA0aI5E
I dare say that most people do not take care of their rx-8 like I do.
What a great Video, and superb job by Charles (how is your back! sore) In just 3 days.
Your old engine looked in great condition and well cared for.
Gee that side seal in the old engine was very short/loose!
Did you replace the rotor housings for any specific reason (mileage)?.
I for one agree, if you can afford to you are better off replacing them as now you virtually have a complete brand new motor and no chance of having warped rotor housings in the rebuild because you renewed them.
Side housings (irons) were also in terrific condition (the 2 good ones), clean and mirrored surface...well the video shows that.
Fantastic job Charles , here is a man that is a do-er and has the experience and knowledge, a man of similar age to myself...great job again guys...
Merry Christmas too...I have just got home from our family dinner/turkey.
#127
Super Moderator
Forgot to ask,
I take it the rotor and stationary gear bearings were all OK, as the eccentric shaft also looked brand new with no wear marks...
I take it the rotor and stationary gear bearings were all OK, as the eccentric shaft also looked brand new with no wear marks...
#129
Banned
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2004 (2003) is the first "generation".
2005 is the first minor change.
2006 - 2008 is the second "generation".
2009 is the third "generation", but since it is the first re-tooling, it would probably be considered the second "generation" by most.
If you use past models as an indicator, we are really still in the first "generation" since the design really hasn't changed and the production code is still SE3P (VIN FE).
The next "generation" RX-8 would be FF.
2005 is the first minor change.
2006 - 2008 is the second "generation".
2009 is the third "generation", but since it is the first re-tooling, it would probably be considered the second "generation" by most.
If you use past models as an indicator, we are really still in the first "generation" since the design really hasn't changed and the production code is still SE3P (VIN FE).
The next "generation" RX-8 would be FF.
#130
Less Fast, More Furious
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2006 engine
2004 (2003) is the first "generation".
2005 is the first minor change.
2006 - 2008 is the second "generation".
2009 is the third "generation", but since it is the first re-tooling, it would probably be considered the second "generation" by most.
If you use past models as an indicator, we are really still in the first "generation" since the design really hasn't changed and the production code is still SE3P (VIN FE).
The next "generation" RX-8 would be FF.
2005 is the first minor change.
2006 - 2008 is the second "generation".
2009 is the third "generation", but since it is the first re-tooling, it would probably be considered the second "generation" by most.
If you use past models as an indicator, we are really still in the first "generation" since the design really hasn't changed and the production code is still SE3P (VIN FE).
The next "generation" RX-8 would be FF.
#132
That's how they come from Mazda, and why some people like to cut them to fit instead of using precut.
No reason. I already had the parts. There was a 20% restocking fee @ $650 per housing. So I used them rather than return them.
Yes, it's like a mirror. The photos don't show the condition nearly as well as the video.
Did you replace the rotor housings for any specific reason (mileage)?
Side housings (irons) were also in terrific condition (the 2 good ones), clean and mirrored surface...well the video shows that.
#133
Polish-American Hammarrrr
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#137
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30,000 miles NA
20,000 miles turbocharged (9-12 psi, so 280-350 whp range)
-------------------------------
50,000 miles total
I use the sohn adaptor, and run synthetic oil in the engine. I used to use 10w30, I now run 10w40.
I change coolant, transmission oil, spark plugs, and coils once a year.
oil is changed every 2500-3000 miles.
I now use the accessport and increased omp flow rates, but that came after the rebuild, so it doesn't count.
only 93 octane due to the turbo. I boost all the time with it.
see my sig for the photos and rebuild threads.
rebuild video, including what the cracked iron looked like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDgJZA0aI5E
I dare say that most people do not take care of their rx-8 like I do.
20,000 miles turbocharged (9-12 psi, so 280-350 whp range)
-------------------------------
50,000 miles total
I use the sohn adaptor, and run synthetic oil in the engine. I used to use 10w30, I now run 10w40.
I change coolant, transmission oil, spark plugs, and coils once a year.
oil is changed every 2500-3000 miles.
I now use the accessport and increased omp flow rates, but that came after the rebuild, so it doesn't count.
only 93 octane due to the turbo. I boost all the time with it.
see my sig for the photos and rebuild threads.
rebuild video, including what the cracked iron looked like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDgJZA0aI5E
I dare say that most people do not take care of their rx-8 like I do.
How much increased omp flow rates are you using with the accessport? I am using +20% NA. Just curious how much you are using for a FI car.
#138
question for Rotary Resurrection about side seal clearance: you said the Renesis uses coded side seals that do not need to be clearanced by hand (although you have done it before using extra long ones).
What is the range of side seal clearances in thousanths of an inch that you have been seeing on motors you tear down? Are we talking 6-7 thou here? I believe the max acceptable clearance on the older 13B's was 6 thou. And what did you clearance the side seals to on the 6 port you built for your own car? 2-3 thou ?
Does everyone else here who builds these motors (and I know there are only a few) just use the factory coded seals?
What is the range of side seal clearances in thousanths of an inch that you have been seeing on motors you tear down? Are we talking 6-7 thou here? I believe the max acceptable clearance on the older 13B's was 6 thou. And what did you clearance the side seals to on the 6 port you built for your own car? 2-3 thou ?
Does everyone else here who builds these motors (and I know there are only a few) just use the factory coded seals?
#140
kevin@rotaryresurrection
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I have not actually measured clearance on the engines I have torn down, half the time the side seals fall out of the rotor before you can even get it out of the engine anyway. The ones I have checked by hand, feel about 5-10 thousandths to me.
I was in a little hurry when I built my own engine so I just threw it together with the longest used oem side seals I had on hand (I saved the ones from the cores I tore down). My engine is basically 100% bone stock, built with the best parts out of all the core parts I had at the time.
I was in a little hurry when I built my own engine so I just threw it together with the longest used oem side seals I had on hand (I saved the ones from the cores I tore down). My engine is basically 100% bone stock, built with the best parts out of all the core parts I had at the time.
#141
Certified Mazda Tech
random somewhat offtopic question here, just wondering something.
how long does it take to pull the motor out from the top? dropping the subframe with the trans and engine is how i do it and it takes almost no time (i do it almost twice weekly), so i was just wondering the amount of time the other side of the coin takes.
kevin.
how long does it take to pull the motor out from the top? dropping the subframe with the trans and engine is how i do it and it takes almost no time (i do it almost twice weekly), so i was just wondering the amount of time the other side of the coin takes.
kevin.
#142
kevin@rotaryresurrection
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I'd say a couple hours out the top, give or take depending on how hard you are working.
For those of us without lifts it is really the only option...how else are you going to elevate the body 4 feet off the ground to clear the engine/subframe assembly?
For those of us without lifts it is really the only option...how else are you going to elevate the body 4 feet off the ground to clear the engine/subframe assembly?
#143
Certified Mazda Tech
you should just invest in a lift, sell your denali, if you still have it , you'll save yourself tons of time pulling motors.
see ya,
kevin.
#144
kevin@rotaryresurrection
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LOL, not hating on you (BTW i'm the same teknics form rx7club, dealt with you a few times, had a big problem with those canada guys doing the ceramic coating a few years ago etc). I was honestly just wondering for my own reference.
you should just invest in a lift, sell your denali, if you still have it , you'll save yourself tons of time pulling motors.
see ya,
kevin.
you should just invest in a lift, sell your denali, if you still have it , you'll save yourself tons of time pulling motors.
see ya,
kevin.
If things dont change in 2009 I will be forced to walk away from the rotary game anyway.
#146
Certified Mazda Tech
I dont have room for a lift...my work area only has a 10 foot ceiling. Plus it would take up valuable room. I have no problem doing it the way I do now, I am quite efficient at it. If I can get an rx7 engine out in 2 hours and an rx8 in 2-3 then I dont think I'd gain too much using a lift, especially since I am only doing about 1 install per month these days.
If things dont change in 2009 I will be forced to walk away from the rotary game anyway.
If things dont change in 2009 I will be forced to walk away from the rotary game anyway.
Hope the best and that things pick up for you asap, warm weather (on the east coast) is right around the corner, hope you see a boost.
kevin.
#147
Super Moderator
Sad, as you appear to be a reliable and trusting repairer.
Has your local economy "switched" off that greatly since the "financial meltdown".
Good luck to you.
#148
kevin@rotaryresurrection
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I normally average 44-50 engines per year which breaks down to right at 1 per week, accounting for 2-3 vacation weeks and holidays. We are now in the 6th week of the year and I have done 2 engines thus far.
The only thing keeping me afloat since October has been small part sales on ebay stores which has done well beyond my expectations, thankfully.
mid/late Feb until early summer is usually the very busy season for me, and it looks like a couple of jobs will be incoming in the next 2 weeks so that looks promising. But I still have to be concerned about the 2nd half of the year, if I am unable to save up enough funds from the busy part (first half) like I have in years past.
That, combined with all the BS as of late in the rx7 community and my falling out with 7club, makes me almost ready to just look for something else to hang my hat on, and maybe just do rotaries part time or not at all.
#149
kevin@rotaryresurrection
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Then the warranty came out. Dont get me wrong...it was a great step by mazda for their original owner/customer base. But it was a bitch slap across the face to me...now I have all these parts on my shelf that are nearly useless (and valueless) because everyone is getting free mazda remans so no one is going to need any internals or pay for any private rebuilding service.
I have had no requests for rx8 work since the warranty extension. I actually lost a job right when the letters were mailed. I'd gotten a call from a local used car dealership who sold an rx8 and a few days later the buyer complained of engine failure and threatened to sue his dealership. He inquired about getting me to go through the engine for him, he was going to split the costs with the buyer as a show of good faith, and I can already do the job for half of mazda's cost to begin with, so it was going to help him out a lot. Well, the letter came to me, and the next day the guy called back asking when I could start on it for him. I was too nice of a guy to take advantage of him, so I explained the warranty letter would be coming to him or his buyer any day, and that he can now take the car back to mazda and get all the work done for free. Well, that and, I knew if I took the job and did the rebuild for him and THEN he/his buyer got the warranty letter, they'd bitch about having to pay me and it may cause unnecessary problems. Or if they got the letter right after I finished the job, they would bitch because mazda probably would not reimburse them for the work they paid me for.
I will still be able to recoup my investment from these renesis cores I have bought, but it will just take 2-3 years longer than anticipated because no one needs any of it right now. Just look at the guy with the NEW set of renesis engine rotors in the classifieds for less than half of what ONE new rotor would cost at retail, and no bites.
Most of my work is actually not local...in fact excluding the one "distributor" that I use to sell my engines through (who is local to me), I do 90% of my work for customers outside the state of TN.
But yes, the local economy has taken a hard hit. This is an industrial town and about half of the factories have laid off, the other half have stopped hiring altogether. My wife's aunt works at a Sea-Ray plant where they build boats. She was temporarily laid off between mid October and early January of this year along with about 50% of the work force. When she returned to work in January they told them that they had 90 days of employment before a permanent layoff.
Last edited by RotaryResurrection; 02-10-2009 at 08:05 PM.