Rotor #2 failures/misfires?
#26
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interestingly enough, it looks to me like the WBO2 sensor bung on the RE Anemiya header is actually in the rear rotor exhaust... not sure if that was for this reason or if its was just a packaging deal
#27
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those are some damn sexy headers up there........
Anyways, I talked to MM about this more. He said what Mazda should have done is sprial the coolant passages around the housing. This is because in a rotary only one side is hot while the other two "areas" are realatively cool compartively. So if they sprialed the coolant passage after it went through the combustion area to either the intake or exhaust areas, then fresh colder coolant would be circulated to the rear rotor combustion area housing. This is of course wouldn't work for one of us to modify, but it's what Mazda should have done.
And the more I think about it, making a seperate coolant circut for the rear housing would be nearly impossible. Someone may be able to pull it off, but it won't be me.
It's an interesting delima we face now. Hopefully when Mazda comes out with a new Wankel they will sprial the coolant passages.
Anyways, I talked to MM about this more. He said what Mazda should have done is sprial the coolant passages around the housing. This is because in a rotary only one side is hot while the other two "areas" are realatively cool compartively. So if they sprialed the coolant passage after it went through the combustion area to either the intake or exhaust areas, then fresh colder coolant would be circulated to the rear rotor combustion area housing. This is of course wouldn't work for one of us to modify, but it's what Mazda should have done.
And the more I think about it, making a seperate coolant circut for the rear housing would be nearly impossible. Someone may be able to pull it off, but it won't be me.
It's an interesting delima we face now. Hopefully when Mazda comes out with a new Wankel they will sprial the coolant passages.
#28
Rotary , eh?
iTrader: (1)
those are some damn sexy headers up there........
Anyways, I talked to MM about this more. He said what Mazda should have done is sprial the coolant passages around the housing. This is because in a rotary only one side is hot while the other two "areas" are realatively cool compartively. So if they sprialed the coolant passage after it went through the combustion area to either the intake or exhaust areas, then fresh colder coolant would be circulated to the rear rotor combustion area housing. This is of course wouldn't work for one of us to modify, but it's what Mazda should have done.
Anyways, I talked to MM about this more. He said what Mazda should have done is sprial the coolant passages around the housing. This is because in a rotary only one side is hot while the other two "areas" are realatively cool compartively. So if they sprialed the coolant passage after it went through the combustion area to either the intake or exhaust areas, then fresh colder coolant would be circulated to the rear rotor combustion area housing. This is of course wouldn't work for one of us to modify, but it's what Mazda should have done.
I would love to see water temps before entering the block compared to before and entering the rear housing and then upon exit of the block. i have a guess as to where the large spike in temperature is.
Last edited by mac11; 05-29-2007 at 11:20 AM.
#29
Smooth Criminal
I get the rear rotor misfire code at every track event I go to. I can get it to happen at the same place on track, every time. I have tried a lot of things to get rid of the problem, with no luck. I only get the CEL on the track, and have not been able to make it happen on the street, even if I try to simulate conditions.
#30
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I'm not sure what real effect that would have. The coolant isn't going to lose an appreciable amount of heat until it exits the motor and reaches the radiator. It will pass some to the outer housing of the motor but not a large amount. Re-routing the coolant in the motor will only mean for a longer duration the hot coolant is in the block before "fresh" is brought in to replace it. And the big issue that was being looked at was that the rear rotor is recieving coolant that is already heat soaked. Therefore its ability to efficiently cool the rear rotor is severly compromised.
I would love to see water temps before entering the block compared to before and entering the rear housing and then upon exit of the block. i have a guess as to where the large spike in temperature is.
I would love to see water temps before entering the block compared to before and entering the rear housing and then upon exit of the block. i have a guess as to where the large spike in temperature is.
#31
Rotary , eh?
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well you're sending the hottest coolant (combustion area passage way) to the coolest area of the motor, and the coolest coolant to the hottest area of the motor. That has to make a difference- I can't see why it wouldn't. Because it is right now, the same coolant is used to cool both combustion areas of both housings, so the coolant is already heak soaked prior to getting the #2 housing. By sprialing the passage ways, the hot coolant can dissapait some heat in the other areas of the engine and the colder coolant can absorb more in the combustion area.
You have to remember even after compression and combustion the hot exhaust gasses are swept further around the motor to the exhaust port. Its not like they are immediately moving out of the motor. So now you have a lot more area of the motor that is being heated to combustion chamber temps than you are accounting for. From looking at Charles Hill's plates I would estimate maybe only 1/3 of the housing is going to be appreciably cooler than that of the "combustion area".
To get the coolant in the rear rotor to be much cooler you somehow need to deliver fresh coolant. I have an idea in my head that I would like to try out when I get some free capitol.
#32
^^ You are missing the point.
Its not about lowering the temperature of the coolant, its about NOT passing 240°F coolant over the combustion area.
If the coolant passage going by the #2 combustion area just came from the intake area of rotor #1, that coolant will be significantly cooler than what goes by there in the current configuration.
Its not about lowering the temperature of the coolant, its about NOT passing 240°F coolant over the combustion area.
If the coolant passage going by the #2 combustion area just came from the intake area of rotor #1, that coolant will be significantly cooler than what goes by there in the current configuration.
#33
LEGOS!!!
Each housing has its own independant cooling, fuel, oil, intake, exhaust IN/OUT ports...
They then snap together via eccentric shaft!!
Brilliant!!
I AM an eccentric shaft!!!
Each housing has its own independant cooling, fuel, oil, intake, exhaust IN/OUT ports...
They then snap together via eccentric shaft!!
Brilliant!!
I AM an eccentric shaft!!!
#35
Same for oil...
Its fuel injected anyways...
spline in the front...receiver in the back...e-shaft secks
Last edited by eviltwinkie; 05-30-2007 at 10:33 AM.
#36
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I have a question...since I think that may be the flashing CEL i had sunday...Would a misfire be followed by smoke from the exhaust? I had a friend behind me say there was quite a bit of smoke that came out from the exhaust.
and
What will mazda say if I bring it in?
________
RedMiledy
and
What will mazda say if I bring it in?
________
RedMiledy
Last edited by dmorales; 09-09-2011 at 03:25 AM.
#38
Perhaps! I didn't think of that.
I wish I had software that is sophisticated enough to log the individual injectors, rather than the groups as a single number.
I guess, when the AccessPort comes around, we will have answers to this sort of stuff.
That said, I don't think its likely that they do individual chamber control since they don't have any way of sensing the temp and A/F differential from #1 to #2 and Mazda's PCMs don't like controlling things that finely without feedback.
I wish I had software that is sophisticated enough to log the individual injectors, rather than the groups as a single number.
I guess, when the AccessPort comes around, we will have answers to this sort of stuff.
That said, I don't think its likely that they do individual chamber control since they don't have any way of sensing the temp and A/F differential from #1 to #2 and Mazda's PCMs don't like controlling things that finely without feedback.
#39
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I stopped by service dept. at lunch, and he gave me the, I don't know that's hard to diagnose, must just be a misfire, it's nomral.
I am brining it in for some ther little problem next week, and will have them look into it more, but if I get anything useful out of this I will let yall know.
________
TylerHart
I am brining it in for some ther little problem next week, and will have them look into it more, but if I get anything useful out of this I will let yall know.
________
TylerHart
Last edited by dmorales; 09-09-2011 at 03:25 AM.
#40
Anyway, this would mean running fairly rich in high-temp situations, which we know it doesn't (or running the front slightly lean, which I would hope it wouldn't).
Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill
I bet Racing Beat knows what's up.
Obviously, RB did NOT succeed in breaking the PCM to any great depth or their re-flash would be considerably more capable.
#45
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A couple of points:
1.Not all 13B engines fail rear rotor,but based on a small personal sample it is 2 rear rotor to 1 front.
2 the oil circuit feeds the rear rotor first and oil removes about 30% of the the total waste heat,this mitigates to some extent the water circuit set up.
1.Not all 13B engines fail rear rotor,but based on a small personal sample it is 2 rear rotor to 1 front.
2 the oil circuit feeds the rear rotor first and oil removes about 30% of the the total waste heat,this mitigates to some extent the water circuit set up.
#46
Thats some nice filler you got there...
#47
A couple of points:
1.Not all 13B engines fail rear rotor,but based on a small personal sample it is 2 rear rotor to 1 front.
2 the oil circuit feeds the rear rotor first and oil removes about 30% of the the total waste heat,this mitigates to some extent the water circuit set up.
1.Not all 13B engines fail rear rotor,but based on a small personal sample it is 2 rear rotor to 1 front.
2 the oil circuit feeds the rear rotor first and oil removes about 30% of the the total waste heat,this mitigates to some extent the water circuit set up.
However, my contention is that with the relatively high flow rate of coolant compared to oil and its elevated relative ability to convey thermal information, the effect of the coolant movement is not negated by the oil.
Certainly, a quick look at the housings with an IR thermometer shows that something is going on.
#48
Destroying Threads
from my personal experience, my first 2 engine replacements were all 2nd rotor misfires, symptoms include violent shake and clank sound at 45-55rpm
death on stoplight, etc etc
death on stoplight, etc etc
#49
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... just investigating on the misfire sound: did you hear that screaming sound like a fan belt slipping? i hear that misfiring (knock on wood) on the wankel is different than misfiring on piston motors