RenesisPower

This is my first rotary and the more I study the engineering aspect of this car the more I think that Mazda engineers did a superb job of maximizing power/torque from the Renesis.

Is this why there is hardly any upgrades worthy of consideration out there from after market tuners. Yes, several companies talk about it or are promising it but nobody has a turbo, supercharger or even a credible cat-back system out there.

What do you think? Curious.

Psylence

Too new.

Engineers making cars for the masses will always compromise somewhere in the interest of their bottom line. That means that there is always more power to be had from the stock unit. No engine would ever be sent out of the factory tuned to the hilt at the very upper limit of its power, it just wouldn't hold together long enough.

I know its frustrating for now.. Personally, I can't wait until my RX8 is putting down 300 NA horsepower, and I firmly believe that this will happen.

RXhusker

Have you completely missed Canzoomer's fuel controller mod Of course there are compromises made to the stock set-up for emissions, fuel econ, noise, etc. We just need to be patient -- I am patiently waiting for my fuel controller :D

bureau13

Why would you say there are no credible cat-back exhausts? Go read all the rave reviews of the Borla, I have yet to find a negative review from someone who has one.

jds

Psylence

Canzoomers fuel mod is a good idea, but I don't know that it is the best solution for someone who will be doing more that just a "chip" upgrade.

Exhausts.. intakes.. etc.. these things change airflow and when that changes, fuel *MUST* change accordingly. You are not going to get that in a one size fits most chip.

The very fact that some RX8's are blowing engines and some are not makes me even more hesitant about accepting such a solution. I will continue to wait for a fully programmable unit that can be matched to my car and my modifications specifically.

wakeech

i'm not sure what your issue is. if you're thinking that when you increase "flow" (which happens everytime RPM of the engine increases) that the engine could potentially lean out, your concept of how the ECU works isn't quite right.

the computer measures how much air is moving in, and adds the "correct" amount of fuel. canzoomer's piggyback plays with the ECU, fooling it on one side or the other, resulting in a different amount of fuel being metered in for x amount of air. he will (i think?) be offering chips which push ignition timing and fuel mixtures to the limit, to try and maximize power in the upper reaches of the rpm band.

if you're worried that the RX-8's fuel system isn't up to task, the high power models have quite a bit to spare over stock duty loads. but yes, if a race engine is what you have in mind, or a +350hp turbo motor, the stock system won't do at all. if all you're doing is aftermarket "bolt-on" modifications, then you won't have anything to worry about, as far as that's concerned.

Psylence

Yes, but until you know exactly what the parameters of the stock ecu are, you dont know how much it will allow for increases before there is a problem...

300 na hp aint gonna come with bolt ons and "chip tuning."

wakeech

buuuut, canzoomer does know the parameters, and is getting closer to shipping his piggy back every day.

and it's really easy to figure out about how far you're pushing the fuel system: you just have to analyse the duty cycles.
but yes, i agree that 300hp, even at the flywheel probably is unattainable without opening up the engine.

will we see +300hp without doing a p-port (ie: keeping it streetable and semi-legal)?? can't say yet...

RenesisPower

Look at the Z car, there were several after market upgrade kits available for it soon after its intro.

I am an engineer but not an automotive engineer, it seems like Mazda engineers have squeezed a lot out of this engine with side ports, air flow control, complex 32-bit ECU, etc. thus making it difficult for after market tuners to come up with easy bolt on kits, be it turbo, supercharger, etc. The other issue is the relative low number of Renesis engines out there, 60,000 a year is highest the Hiroshima plant (maybe wrong on the city) can produce for worldwide consumption.

I guess we will have to wait longer for credible upgrades(I am not talking about garage designed and un-tested products from rookies) for the 8.

bureau13

Apparently you had your mind pretty much made up when you started the thread, so I'm not sure what your point is. Why are the existing upgrades for exhaust and intake "not credible." Why is Canzoomer's ECU mod "not credible." Just because it doesn't say GReddy on it doesn't mean these things are "garage designed and un-tested."

jds

RenesisPower

Not really!

I am not sure who Canzoomer is and what his/her credentials are but have you tested his mods ? Do they work ? Is it ready yet ? I have seen the specs according to the posts but I believe it when I see it.

Where are the other guys? you know the ones who have a good reputation on mods for the RX-7 ?

renotse

If I'm not mistaken Canzoomers engine failed shortly after road testing his new ECU mods. I think that the dealer concluded oil injector failure. I hope that was the case and the ECU mod was not a contributing factor.

For more data See "Good News/Bad News" thread HERE

renotse

Here is a thread that seems to validate RenesisPower's point

MoTec ECU for RX8

Psylence

That doesn't mean that the car is optimized in any way.

It just means that everything is controlled by that ECU, which makes a total replacement situation very difficult or impossible depending on what level of "stock" funcitonality that you want to maintain.

When I had a Motec M4Pro installed in my STi, I lost air conditioning, cruise control, stepper motor idle control. Car is a lot more powerful tho...

Time will tell. A device like an Apex'i PFC would seem to offer the most benefit; keep all stock functionality but it can still be tuned for the individual car.

bureau13

The problem with something like a PFC or any other standalone is that for the RX-8, in comparison to the RX-7, it will have to do SO MUCH. I don't know if they're putting out PFCs for cars with similarly complex ECUs as the 8 though...maybe its no big deal for them.

rxcaliber

The car is too new to even really have a market other than wheels or asthetics. Not enough mass demand. Most people buying the car don't want to void their warranties. So there will probably not be much "performance" stuff out there for at least 2-3 more years. The other issue about forced induction is that the port velocities and EGT's will probably exceed the tolerance of the gap between the iron center exhaust ports causing a crack(s). (Check out an exhaust manifold from a second or third gen RX7) This may not be an issue if they used some space aged material to line the ports, but I highly doubt it at the selling price of the vehicle. At any rate a stock block probably wouldn't last too long o forced induction. I think that any engine mods will be in the naturally aspirated realm, which is still impressive for the engines displacement. Just my two cents for the moment until more info on the exhaust ports is available.