I don't recommend ever running an untuned engine hard.

the volume of contaminates prior to the first oil change "could" create uneven wear. once an uneven situation is created it would get exaggerated as time went on.

and the engine oil wont be cleaner....it will be cleaner sooner but initially it will be more contaminated. we are all talking about the same material to wear off and contaminate the system so the faster you introduce the more likely unwanted wear will happen.

What you say makes sense to some extent but I would really like to see some documentation before I commit to that.

I doubt Houston's engine will need any real tuning to run well. Mine ran fine on my NA tune as long as I stayed out of boost. He will need some tuning to get the most out of it however.

concerning the spitting an oil filter---yes i have done that. It was surprising at the amount os "paste" that is captured. And I am speaking of the results from a normal oil change---not just at break in.
Like folks have mentioned---different opinions for how to break in an engine.
I believe metals do wear. If they didnt then the engine should last forever. There are more than bearings inside this engine. There are the stationary gears, the e shaft etc. Metals will also be found in a uao--so metal is wearing somewhere and not just on the seals housings/plates. Also think why it is recommended that a street engine is not broken in with synthetic oil? Is it just for the seals?
I believe that RG is correct in that bearings are not supposed to touch. The oil film should be there. It is when it is not there that you see really bad results---like so many front bearing we see worn in this engine.
RG has a good point is getting the seals to take a set. Centrifugal force does provide the most force to the apex seals to help them seal--but CF actually works agaisn the corner and side seals.
The most important thing in getting a good seal is to have good parts to begin with--flat housings/plates and new seals. Regardless of the break in tech. I try to break my engines in driving like I would nornally do. For the few few minutes after the engine has gotten up to temps--i do use a fair amount of throttle to get the internal gas pressures up which helps the seals burnish the walls. i dont use that high of an rpm. Yes if you break it in driving like you stole it you will get a stronger contact between the seals and housings etc. But, it that small amount of break in wear going to last? No bad advice here.
Oh dude--if the car has been setting for awhile--get some fresh gas in it. Old gas can cause problems!
Main thing in flushing the oil coolers is getting all the old oil out. Home flushing really doesnt clean them much.

I recommended driving it hard for 20 miles and then immediately changing the oil and filter to flush those contaminants out of the system. Even with a slow break in and a first oil change at 1000 or 3000 miles, those particulates are there the whole time. I get them out almost immediately after they get there.

I am still waiting for any good piece of information as to why to break in an engine slowly. Everyone always says the same thing. It has always been done that way. No one knows why and I've got a problem with that. The reality is that not everyone does do it that way.

A million opinions a million outcomes....

I always suggest with following the masses when you aren't 100% sure. Even if they are leading you off a bridge at least you will have some company in the water!

Interesting tid bit: I was watching a show on factories and on that show they had episodes on the Z06 and the Porsche 911 and in both factories they rolled the cars on a dyno at the end of the assembly line and took them to redline. But I am too chicken to do that, forcing something into place always seems to end badly versus taking it slow and easy.

I am going to say this with 100% certainty. If you break in your engine the conventional easy way, you are not going to get all the power the engine can get and you never will. A timid break in results in a timid engine.

iirc quite some time ago team was saying something along the lines that a good engine builder will have dyno tested a fresh motor before sending it to the customer. i think it was said in phishs build thread but im not certain

it "used to be" a slow break in because the oil and clearances where not as good then as they are now.
Define break it in hard? Are you speaking of repeativly going to 9K rpms--or or you talking about using a lot of throttle?
I dont like high rpms ( Cf or not) due to the heat it generates. But using a lot of throttle allows the gas pressure to get under the seals and push outward and to help burnish in the apex/corner and side seals. I dont lug it--but i dont go over 7.5K either.
I would change that first oil before I would drive it hard. I change my first oil after the first warm up. I didnt so a full change--just the normal one--but I can get about 5 quarts out.

Perhaps adding an oil change after the initial 20 minute warm up after starting would be a good idea too. You never know what kind of stuff is hiding inside the engine.

The slow traditional break in method states to avoid full throttle and stay below 4K rpm. I see no reason at all to do this and actually find every reason not to do this.

And thats the reason for very early oil and filter change. Certainly its better than keeping it there for 500 miles and hoping that all the metal shaving remain in filter. And its not just about metal, but also about fuel dilution.

You are talking about wear, but this wear must happen, otherwise components wont seal anything.

Light break-in approach with first oil change after "relatively" long time is worst possible scenario - seals will just polish all surfaces without realizing perfect sealing and this will cause several things, no matter how long it will be run. Such engine will be down on power, it will have higher fuel and oil consumption and it will always contaminate oil faster with combustion byproducts.

I have direct experience with this on two stroke bikes, unfortunately, I was light break-in guy and all the trying to do it "right" resulted in very poor power and torque. My brother was pretty reckless in this regard and his bike was accelerating harder in 3rd gear than mine in 2nd. After disasembly, he didnt have any major blow-by indication on piston skirt whereas I did and very much of it:wallbash:

Another example would be NSU endurance test runs. Engine was being break-in during first 10 hours on engine dyno at full load at 5000 rpms. During this duration, BMEP raised by about 8%, specific fuel consumption decreased by 14% and oil consumption went to half. This wouldnt happen with 10 hours of light throttle operation. Note: run was at constant speed as they were examining tendency to apex seal chatter.

What RG says is correct, hydrodynamic bearings doesn´t have metal to metal contact and only way to properly seat the seals, is to put combustion pressure on them before its too late...

Ultimately, if the engine has some major flaw, it will lead to damage, no matter type of break-in procedure. Only difference is amount of money that goes to the gas before someone applies serious load - heat and something will grow/fail.

now that makes since running under some load for the first 20min or so but def not taking it to 9k, then do the first oil change.

something to consider :)

and as for my gas it is 1 month old and I added stabilizer to it before it set.

well with several accounts of opperator error hoss -05 and I knocked out most of the short block

tomorrow I finish up the pressure plate and front cover.

by the way with all the break in talk I have decided to do this assembly dry...thats right folks absolutely no oil with this assembly....my theroy is why not break it in right and get it out of the way right at start up!!!!:scratchhe....hope I did the right thing:yesnod:


Attachment 233558

Attachment 233559

Nevermind I actually read your post.

call me when you are assembling the front cover I want ot make sure that front stack is aligned and shit.

will do...the rest of my stuff will be in by friday so busy weekend ahead

Looks goo bro. Hopefully I can stop by tomorrow evening to lend a hand.

just to clarify based on overwhelming lack of response....I was joking about the no oil thing :)

Looks good. We doing the install this weekend?

i was hoping that was a joke. maby next time fill it with sand for start up to make sure everything is smooth

I hear dog hair is key to side seal longevity.

i can supply that. my pooch is shedding like crazy

nice looking build room you have there! Bet it is air conditioned too.
Wuss.
now plug up those holes before something gets in them:)

That's how you resurface the housings in a running engine!