going to start a new thread?

na...same engine same thread :)

Here are some photos and comments...... hopefully I get a good response. Thanks again SARX you guys rock....started at 9ish and by 9 everything is disassembled and all the Irons and Housings are cleaned and sitting on my table

Initial things are:

1) Wear seems VERY similar in the bearing and irons leading me to believe the e-shaft (that I had checked by a machinist) was not properly measured.
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2) there was a good amount of oil in the LIM….what does that mean??? (picture is more of a technicality)
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3) Significant amount of carbon for only 1500miles and note the very odd “carbon free” area on every rotor face? I assume this a "clean spot where the "leak" was occuring?......probably the answer the compression issue?????:dunno:
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4) Some very strange wear on the housings it almost appears to be rust?(housings were slightly used Atkins)
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5) oil in the housing/chamber……Shady seemed concerned about this but I just chalked it up to spinning the motor and we made a mess but better safe than sorry.
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6) 1 of the Apex seals was most certainly still glued but I cannot confirm that was the case with all of them

Overall pretty tired and going to call it a night, I will post pictures of the rotors, seals and springs tomorrow

Oh and just because I like the foam :rolleyes:
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Hey Houston can you change the font size for the picture comments?

Its hard to read with the large pics!

Also can you take a good close look at the pilot bearing and see if it has the same fubar wear that it did before.

done

I dont recall the PB having crazy wear...I remember breaking it because the puller was messed up? I cant find any posed pics....I will get on my other PC later and check out my notes.

mans thanks for taking the time to post all of that. Good job on the speed of the removal and teardown

Many questions:
1- that bearing wear occurred in 1500 miles????
2- chadder marks on the housing?
3-what the heck are the circular "stains" on that one housing?
4- you definitively had different leaks going on.
5- oil control ring/scrapper rings not doing their jobs? the oil is very very clean too. do you still have the pellet in the e shaft?
6- are the irons ok?
7: why are the lim secondary's so clean?

see responses in quote......I am just about to post a few more photos :)

here is a better photo of the rotor....all the faces look pretty much the same
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also most of the side seals had this same discoloration on the end that lines up to what I beleive is the trailing edge of the apex (the 2 clean corners on the rotors). there didnt seem to be any odd wear on the edges of the side seals (for whatever thats worth)
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Man that bearing wear is troubling. I am guessing this is why balancing the assembly is so important?

somewhat but I am not convincenced that "balance" is the whole problem. I am wondering if the thing is bent. I will order a new dial indicator and do my own test......I am seriously considering sending it off to get balanced though.

Is measuring the E shaft something that is covered in the engine workshop manual?

yep and I measured the journals for consistency and tolerance .....they are good to go in that aspect. I do not have v-blocks and the appropriate dial indicator so I asked Bowman to spec out of round for me....I think he put it in his lathe.

Hmmm, is getting the right tools expensive? There are a couple of good engine shops that should be able to measure it if you give them the specs.

Bump...

it would have been cheaper than dissassembing (ha...no its not that bad)

if you are talking about the little burnish mark? its the same and the PB Is good to go....no visual wear

How you plan to flush your oil coolers. I just hooked up my air hose and blew air and got what ever was in their . I didn't want to remove them

actually not a bad idea have to think about that..... once you get the lines off getting the coolers out is only 2 bolts so I was going to flushed professionally.....did you get any sludge out?

it is interesting that the markings on the rotor faces are more or less equal on both sides.
That plus that bearing wear........ how high have to revved that e shaft before? Maybe it has flexed on you?
Remember that post of mine about balancing?? Sorry--couldnt help myself--i will now slap myself in the face..

I think I saw an image of baby Jesus in the carbon on that rotor face!!

Those "clean" marks are from the oil injection...

There is definitely something wrong with the e-shaft or the stationary gears. Or one of the irons is warped enough that the bore isn't straight anymore

As for the Aitkins seals...I know of a significant problem with there seals in full height 13B applications...and I would expect with similar metal and finishing they would be even worse in an RX-8 application. If you are going to do a build for "stock" type power outputs you can't go wrong with Mazda seals.

I will let it slide this time ;) and I have rev'd to redline several times throuhout the last motor and the 1500 miles of this one

I would say the issue is with the e-shaft as the wear is very similar to my reman that came out. e-shaft, rotors and stationary gears were the only things reused (I did add new bearing)

well the plan was to prepare for boost next year and 3mm or ceramics wernt in the cards :)

I guess I will look at rebuild seal kit and new apex's

Did you check the oil pressue on the new build?

yes and no. my OP guage was shipped with a kink in the line so it may have effected the reading....70psi was the normal reading but I saw up to 90 I think

First mod on the new rebuild....a Mazmart oil pressure regulator upgrade. There are no downsides to speak of...and hopefully it should help your bearings live longer.

do u see any marks on the e-shaft? it's pretty easy to measure the run outs. you can get some v-blocks for cheap. and a set of dial indicator is cheap too.

Balancing is not an issue here. and I don't think it's your E-shaft going bad.

even it is a brand new E-shaft is cheap (compare to any older Rotary E-shaft at least)

but don't buy it yet, if I were u I am gonna measure the runout on the e-shaft first, and press new stationary gear bearings in (also cheap)

You should really toss those Atkins out, I rather you use Groopy than Atkins, but if it's me again, I just gonna either use Mazda, cuz Mazda did explain why they don't harden the whole seal, just the tips.

or use Ceramics (Dr.I or NRS)

if you are going boost next year, you might as well mill the Rotors now. Chrismotorsports can do it cheaply and easily. check them out.

I have the mod already but I have had issues with my mechanical guage so I havent seen any readings I would trust my life too:)

yea I have a ton of machinist tools but somewhere along the line my dial indicator disappeared...I will order v-blocks today and work to spec everything out this week

maybe I will look into 3mm seals...I am here again I might as well right?