yes, I am pretty sure that is a true straight edge...if its not the cast iron table on my 1950's craftsman tablesaw was a good vaidation.....and I only wear it on the weekend :)

I assume that wear horizantally across the apex from the rotor slot is normal?

thats was I said...way taller...and OEM are being ordered this week

bolt and a crush washer....09 was rear (note the bolt)
Attachment 231526

I thought about adressing it with atkins but a) they seem to be dicks as far as actually helping the customer....if you just want to buy something then great b) I dont know if I am educated enough to put up a good arguement.

Guess I will just send an email with some photos and see what happens

also got these this weekend....thanks belmetric.com

Attachment 231524

Attachment 231525

no damn wonder you didnt have any compression--if all your apex seals look like that.
I have no idea what made that mark unless one of your springs got caught somehow?
Expensive lessons--and I agree-- send them pics of those seals--thats ridiculous.

you may have seen this site before but for those that havent, look at this
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...QbQqBsnXoMFtFQ

Would it be rude to ask ...........wtf is going on in this thread ?
Was this a reman engine you opened up to find taller (rx7)seals in ?

also - that housing with the chatter marks - does not look bad . Pretty sure i'd use that :suspect:

I took my reman out and it was fubar'd so I bought new irons and slightly used housings which was great, reused rotor and e-shaft....decided to go atkins cryo and not measure everything before installation...big no-no

and no on the taller seals...that is what Atkins sent me.....and I am very confident the springs were installed correctly.

very confused ... were those taller seals installed in stock depth apex seal grooves ?

Brett,

Yes they were.


Houstonrx8er,

That is why I didn't go with Atkins for my rebuild. When I called to ask questions the guys was obviously annoyed with all my questions so I just called the next builder.

^ yea, did get that expierence until after I hit the order button.....educational none the less

plan is oem corners/apex, bearings, e-shaft and taylor 814ce with cedar top......and that is at the wifes orders :)

did you jb wield the 3nd oil nozzle hole or does the bolt fit very close to the end of it?
Does the bolt heat expansion rate match that of the housing somehow? IDK just throwing stuff out there.

i know someone that used s2 housings and hooked up the third nozzle to work on a s1 rebuild

Just interested in this - seems they use a slightly taller than OEM seal (by 0.5mm) but this is not the rx7 seal . The effect of this would be that it would be a bit stronger but also the spring would be compressed more . So is this a good thing or a bad thing ?

Worthy of discussion .....

mute point if the seal isnt flat?


Good question though. i think the pressure on the seal at the lower rpms would be more,( increased friction too) but since c force does the most at the higher rpms......why?

See my builder said order soft seals from atkins real stuff from Mazda and Rotary Resurection as well..I just got my OEM side seals by letter and about to order my OEM rotor bearings. Per my orders from my builder . He always orders just soft seals from atkins everything from MaZda or performance shop for Apex seals.

And yep their customer service stinks. I remember asking questions then I said forget it Hung up called 2 days later and said can I order kit B with frys that's all thanks . Lmao.. their order takers Bro not Racing Beat lmao... Seriously

I did not...I think the screw seats well but I iwll double check

we had discussed that but would the supply be enough with an 04 style pump?

I will just sit and watch it unfold :) I can see extra pressure on the seal a good thing in the right application....but I dont think this is that application

ditto....and it sure as hell isnt flat

would be interested to know if the seal was flat before it went in .. If it was what would cause it to bend in an NA application :dunno:

do you think bent vs. worn? If that much wear in 1500 miles you would think I would have seen some major debris on my oil pan magnet...right

no - any debris would be going out the exhaust . Was it getting lubricated properly ?

yep, you could see the omp fill the lines at start up and I ran almost 2qt through the SOHN in 1500 miles

Were all the seals the same - or only one like that on one rotor ?

they all have what I would call a scalap but the photo is pretty much the worst one. also it is not the same apex in the photo below

I will get all of the seals finished up (I still have 1/2 of a rotor/seals to clean) and get pics of each one with all the measurements and hopefully that will help vs. me trying to explain them poorly :)

Attachment 231470

Thats very unfortunate. This way it will be very hard to judge where wear occured, if the apex seal to slot clearance was correct etc.

A recall one very experienced engine builder claiming, that Atkins apex seals have higher thermal expansion rate than OEM stuff and they need to be instaled with bigger clearance, otherwise they will stuck in groove.


Being 0.5mm taller does only one thing, it pushes spring further, but it doesn't increase its tension. But this didn't caused poor compression.


What do you mean by this?
Does the sliding surface of apex retains its radius? Or its worn-out?

There are too many things going on, I do believe that it may started as clearance problem, but as the apex seals didn't properly seated, blow-by increased their temperature to the level where apex warped or worn-out in the middle:dunno:

I did a clearance test on the rotor groove (didnt document it) and it was within tolerance

interesting about the expansion rate of cryo parts...never thought of that, just how it transfered heat

regarding the scalap, I was refering to the lip at the end of the seal...its called a scalap.
Attachment 231468

I cannot wait to get this stinking work project rolled out....it is totally distracting me from focusing on this rebuild:wallbash:....3 weeks....ugh

ok, housings, apex, corners, bearings, eshaft have all been ordered :)

gonna look at..... finishing my coilover sleeve perches, possible oil cooler flush, and geting the bung redone on my pan :)

hopefuly it will work this time :lol2:

measurements to come shortly

dude... we could make a 4 rotor.


That's been your plan this whole time huh?