Single Oil Cooler
11-27-2009, 04:42 PM
#126
Super Moderator
Yes, they are not that much more expensive about $8.00 or so...
And I would recommend ALL RX-8 owners to use them, even RX-7..
Frankly, being an oldie, I never really like these small pissy bloody Oil Filters, I remember the original rotary ones (which would still fit to an 8) and they were HUGE in filter capacity/size....I used to sell thousands and they were genuine.
In the 09 Mazda have gone back to a filter size of the Early 1980's .
Use the JEY0-14-3029A , is even better than the S1, has the same by pass pressure...and is more like the 09 S2 in Size...
Just checked the N3R1 is about a $1 cheaper than the JEY0.. go figure..
And I would recommend ALL RX-8 owners to use them, even RX-7..
Frankly, being an oldie, I never really like these small pissy bloody Oil Filters, I remember the original rotary ones (which would still fit to an 8) and they were HUGE in filter capacity/size....I used to sell thousands and they were genuine.
In the 09 Mazda have gone back to a filter size of the Early 1980's .
Use the JEY0-14-3029A , is even better than the S1, has the same by pass pressure...and is more like the 09 S2 in Size...
Just checked the N3R1 is about a $1 cheaper than the JEY0.. go figure..
11-27-2009, 05:03 PM
#128
Super Moderator
$6.56 us...
11-27-2009, 05:13 PM
#130
Super Moderator
http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...&siteid=214264
Have you not used Montgomery's??
You must order ON-Line for this price and set up a user..
Have you not used Montgomery's??
You must order ON-Line for this price and set up a user..
11-27-2009, 08:26 PM
#131
Super Moderator
9K,
Was going to ask you now with your Middle Oil Cooler only how much old Oil Piping, Hoses and Tubing have you discarded or removed?.
If one was to 'measure' the total length for the original 2 factory Oil coolers, I would think there would be about 5 feet of TOTAL Oil Lines..?
What would now be the total with your Single OC Mod, about 50% less or a few (2 to 2.5) feet??
Just interested.
Was going to ask you now with your Middle Oil Cooler only how much old Oil Piping, Hoses and Tubing have you discarded or removed?.
If one was to 'measure' the total length for the original 2 factory Oil coolers, I would think there would be about 5 feet of TOTAL Oil Lines..?
What would now be the total with your Single OC Mod, about 50% less or a few (2 to 2.5) feet??
Just interested.
11-27-2009, 08:56 PM
#132
SARX Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
Thanks for the link. Montgomery's?
Okay, yes I removed every part of the factory system, coolers, brackets, everything. The hoses were a PIA to get out. I bought ten feet of hose and did not use it all and I could easily shave off a foot or two of the current setup. Next time I will remove all of the under trays to be able to get in there a bit more. The longest hose is the return hose but if you mounted a cooler more towards the drivers side you could shorten it quite a bit. With some real design and fab expertise it could be packaged a lot better. This seemed a bit easier to do in my head than it actually was. I am still adjusting things and i will continue to refine the system.
I would really like to see the biggest most efficient cooler we could fit in the drivers side front air dam.
9K,
Was going to ask you now with your Middle Oil Cooler only how much old Oil Piping, Hoses and Tubing have you discarded or removed?.
If one was to 'measure' the total length for the original 2 factory Oil coolers, I would think there would be about 5 feet of TOTAL Oil Lines..?
What would now be the total with your Single OC Mod, about 50% less or a few (2 to 2.5) feet??
Just interested.
Was going to ask you now with your Middle Oil Cooler only how much old Oil Piping, Hoses and Tubing have you discarded or removed?.
If one was to 'measure' the total length for the original 2 factory Oil coolers, I would think there would be about 5 feet of TOTAL Oil Lines..?
What would now be the total with your Single OC Mod, about 50% less or a few (2 to 2.5) feet??
Just interested.
Okay, yes I removed every part of the factory system, coolers, brackets, everything. The hoses were a PIA to get out. I bought ten feet of hose and did not use it all and I could easily shave off a foot or two of the current setup. Next time I will remove all of the under trays to be able to get in there a bit more. The longest hose is the return hose but if you mounted a cooler more towards the drivers side you could shorten it quite a bit. With some real design and fab expertise it could be packaged a lot better. This seemed a bit easier to do in my head than it actually was. I am still adjusting things and i will continue to refine the system.
I would really like to see the biggest most efficient cooler we could fit in the drivers side front air dam.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 11-27-2009 at 08:59 PM.
11-28-2009, 02:47 AM
#137
Super Moderator
I don't know about you guys, but I have a thing about "Oil Filters", when I was a PM I viewed some shocking quality Oil Filters from some very reputable brands, I had reps trying to sell me these light in weight rubbish filters. Filters trialled that had the filter paper way to coarse and cheap, some that had no by pass valve and even some with just a thin O ring for base of filter seal....Cross threaded mounts rust inside of outer can.
So if I can I will always stick with "Real" genuine, I am talking the same ones installed at the factory, not the "Mazda Approved" ones that MNAO sell and even Mazda Australia, anything that has a 9A ,99 or 9 in the last set of digits in part number end is not OEM, or is sourced out side of Mazda but from their supplier.
That applies to all Mazda Parts and Part Numbers..
Sometimes you don't know what you are getting.
So if I can I will always stick with "Real" genuine, I am talking the same ones installed at the factory, not the "Mazda Approved" ones that MNAO sell and even Mazda Australia, anything that has a 9A ,99 or 9 in the last set of digits in part number end is not OEM, or is sourced out side of Mazda but from their supplier.
That applies to all Mazda Parts and Part Numbers..
Sometimes you don't know what you are getting.
11-28-2009, 03:18 AM
#138
Super Moderator
On the Mobil 1110..this link does not say it is for an 09 at all..
http://auto-parts.myride.com/auto-pa...l-filter-m1110
Down the Bottom it says as a replacement for OEM
•JEY0-14-302-9A
Which has the Lower By Pass and is not technically for any RX-8, but you can use it on a S1...it is technically for Mazda's larger 4 and V6 engines.
But yes, it is a better filter size wise than the "original" S1 Oil Filter B6Y1-14-302A.
For 09 or S2 Owners reading this DO NOT USE MOBIL 1110, it is NOT the correct filter and could be by passing Oil permanently, even if filter is not blocked.
Considering the by pass for 09 Filter is 23 PSI (average) compared to 14 of the Mobil 1110.(if it is at JEY0-14-302A factory spec)
http://auto-parts.myride.com/auto-pa...l-filter-m1110
Down the Bottom it says as a replacement for OEM
•JEY0-14-302-9A
Which has the Lower By Pass and is not technically for any RX-8, but you can use it on a S1...it is technically for Mazda's larger 4 and V6 engines.
But yes, it is a better filter size wise than the "original" S1 Oil Filter B6Y1-14-302A.
For 09 or S2 Owners reading this DO NOT USE MOBIL 1110, it is NOT the correct filter and could be by passing Oil permanently, even if filter is not blocked.
Considering the by pass for 09 Filter is 23 PSI (average) compared to 14 of the Mobil 1110.(if it is at JEY0-14-302A factory spec)
11-28-2009, 09:58 AM
#139
the moble one is the one listed for the 2009 rx8 at auto zone and at moble one web sites. 2009 specific.
Ash you are correct though--best to get the factory one if you can--then you KNOW what you have.
+ the factory filter is known to be a good filter.Buy them by the case!
OD
Ash you are correct though--best to get the factory one if you can--then you KNOW what you have.
+ the factory filter is known to be a good filter.Buy them by the case!
OD
11-28-2009, 01:38 PM
#140
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
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30-40% of the cooling in a rotary is done by the oil.
Two things are required by the oil coolers to pull the heat out.
One is air flow through the cooler and two is oil flow.
This is why both the 3rd gen and the 8 have problems!
When the car is not moving there is NO air and very little oil flow through the coolers.
ALL other rotary car models have a mechanical fan always moving air and the oil cooler is mounted in this air flow.
Oil cooler fans can help but the mounting has it’s problems, the main thing is ducting if you just put the fan on the back of the cooler the hot air just re-circulates around in the wheel well, and if you don’t retain the rubber duct in front you loose some of the ram air effect and the fan air comes back around the front of the cooler.
So the oil coolers needs to be moved towards the center of the car and up a little then seal the front and make ducting in the back so the air will make it out of the wheel well, also ditch the fog lights.
That’s the easy part, the hard part is getting more oil flow through the coolers. The only time you get high flow through the coolers is when the rpm is high enough to get the bypass valve to open, also more oil is going through the oil jets to cool the rotors.
This I believe is why the oil pressure/VOLUME has been increased in the 09 model, and the use of the oil control valve. Another name for this valve should be oil bypass control valve (OBCV).
The oil flow at idle and low rpm is very small, the pressure is low and NO bypass oil to the pan.
Now because you can control the oil bypass electronically, that means you can bypass oil at idle and low rpm which means more flow (VOLUME) through the coolers = more oil cooling.
This still does not help the air flow problem but a lot more oil is going to and from the oil pan.
Sorry about my rambling style.
What I am saying is oil pressure is not the issue it’s volume.
You do not get high volume through the bearings.
The bypass valve does more than pressure regulation it also controls oil volume through the cooling system.
If you did not bypass the oil, the flow through the coolers would be a lot less.
Two things are required by the oil coolers to pull the heat out.
One is air flow through the cooler and two is oil flow.
This is why both the 3rd gen and the 8 have problems!
When the car is not moving there is NO air and very little oil flow through the coolers.
ALL other rotary car models have a mechanical fan always moving air and the oil cooler is mounted in this air flow.
Oil cooler fans can help but the mounting has it’s problems, the main thing is ducting if you just put the fan on the back of the cooler the hot air just re-circulates around in the wheel well, and if you don’t retain the rubber duct in front you loose some of the ram air effect and the fan air comes back around the front of the cooler.
So the oil coolers needs to be moved towards the center of the car and up a little then seal the front and make ducting in the back so the air will make it out of the wheel well, also ditch the fog lights.
That’s the easy part, the hard part is getting more oil flow through the coolers. The only time you get high flow through the coolers is when the rpm is high enough to get the bypass valve to open, also more oil is going through the oil jets to cool the rotors.
This I believe is why the oil pressure/VOLUME has been increased in the 09 model, and the use of the oil control valve. Another name for this valve should be oil bypass control valve (OBCV).
The oil flow at idle and low rpm is very small, the pressure is low and NO bypass oil to the pan.
Now because you can control the oil bypass electronically, that means you can bypass oil at idle and low rpm which means more flow (VOLUME) through the coolers = more oil cooling.
This still does not help the air flow problem but a lot more oil is going to and from the oil pan.
Sorry about my rambling style.
What I am saying is oil pressure is not the issue it’s volume.
You do not get high volume through the bearings.
The bypass valve does more than pressure regulation it also controls oil volume through the cooling system.
If you did not bypass the oil, the flow through the coolers would be a lot less.
You're not going to increase the flow rate from by-passing the oil, you're just diverting it away from the engine internals. At lower RPM, where the bypasses are closed, and the pump is flowing as much as it physically can for it's speed, all that oil is still flowing through the coolers.
One way or another, all possible flow is going through the coolers (unless the front bypass is opening), it's just a matter of where it goes after that - I would prefer through the filter and into the motor for lubrication duties, not just back into the pan.
11-28-2009, 03:47 PM
#141
Super Moderator
the moble one is the one listed for the 2009 rx8 at auto zone and at moble one web sites. 2009 specific.
Ash you are correct though--best to get the factory one if you can--then you KNOW what you have.
+ the factory filter is known to be a good filter.Buy them by the case!
OD
Ash you are correct though--best to get the factory one if you can--then you KNOW what you have.
+ the factory filter is known to be a good filter.Buy them by the case!
OD
The M1110 is rated for the JEY0, not the N3R1.
The Series II (N3R1-14-302) Oil Filter is ALL new, never been made before by Tokyo Roki, Mazda's main Genuine Filter maker.
I can not see anyone else making an Oil Filter so soon for a car that is selling about 800 a month world wide.
All Mobil and others have done is physically Look at the filter, it can not have the correct valve, but will fit...at your risk.
Do an Autozone search for an Oil Filter for a 1996 Mazda MPV V6, you get a Mobil M1110, factory filter is JEY0-14-302-9A.
Sorry OD, I also have a "thing" about all these "so-called" EXPERT car accessory and Parts Suppliers...they are the ENEMY!!!...
11-28-2009, 08:14 PM
#145
Super Moderator
11-29-2009, 11:50 AM
#148
Ayrton Senna Forever
Hi OD! I took apart an oil filter in this weekend to see what are you talking about when you say that a part of oil won't be filtered at higher pressures.
Now I have to say that any high oil pressure won't take the filter to get bypass mod. Every oil will be filtered even at 90-120 PSI. Look at the pictures!
The only thing which makes the filter getting bypass mood if there is a pressure difference between the paper filter inner and outer sides, inside the oil filter house. This can happen when the paper gets very dirty (clogging).
My english is not so perfect, but I hope you know what I would like to say.
Now I have to say that any high oil pressure won't take the filter to get bypass mod. Every oil will be filtered even at 90-120 PSI. Look at the pictures!
The only thing which makes the filter getting bypass mood if there is a pressure difference between the paper filter inner and outer sides, inside the oil filter house. This can happen when the paper gets very dirty (clogging).
My english is not so perfect, but I hope you know what I would like to say.
