rotary-tt

Yawn, this has been discussed many times. Good synthetics actually burn cleaner than many dino oils. The idea that synthetics are bad comes from the 2nd and 3rd gen RX-7 owners manuals. That was like 10 yrs ago...

Racing Beat has been around for 20+ years and has been running synthetics for almost as long with no issues. They are pretty tight with Mazda and do the MazdaSpeed Protoge`. They recommend Royal Purple. Also RP has been documented by Racing Beat as giving a 2% Hp increase. Hot Rod mag has also documented up to a 5% increase (in boingers). Go with RP and get back 5hp which will get you closer to the 247 they promised:D BTW my '93 FD runs Royal Purple 10w-30. Think I've already said this but Royal Purple is a speaker at SevenStock (held at Mazda) and they are quoted on Mazda's web site as saying synthetic is ok for rotaries.

Now I'm getting tired of typing this over and over:p The techs and sales reps have the old info stuck in their heads. The old manuals had it explicitly stated. Now the new ones don't. I highly doubt that this was an oversight

wakeech

keep in mind that Racing Beat is an RP distributor... it's in their best interest to tell you it's the best there is, regardless if it's true or not.

crossbow

Just a quick note....(From a mazda6s owner running 0w-20 supersyn)...

It would be extremely difficult for mazda to prove you were running synthetic or dino oil if a warranty issue ever came into question.

The default 5w-20 factory fill is a synthetic-blend anyway (the mazda 5w-20 is motorcraft 5w-20 syn-blend), which would make seperation between the two difficult without an exhaustive oil analysis.

If a warranty issue ever came into question, they'd be far more concerned about how often the oil/filter was changed, more then the oil itself.

Last note...

You can find more information about oils at...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com

If your having your oil changed by the dealer, put a sharpie mark, or a white sticker on your oil filter before you bring it in. (Cheap check on the dealer quality)

You'll be surprised how many dealers don't change the filter...or even change the oil.

RX-EVolved

ROYAL PURP 10-30W !!!

LOOK AT THE ASH CONTENT HERE PEOPLE!

rotary-tt

I doubt they would stake their reputation for the few cents/quart they make. Not like they sell tons of the stuff. More likely that they would not want to jeopardize their high $$ relationship with Mazda by recommending something bad for their motors. Don't forget that the Formula Mazda motors come sealed with synthetic oil.

Hot Rod says RP great stuff and confirms the hp gain.

Anyone know if this question came up again at SevenStock6 this past weekend?

graphicguy

Went to my Mazda dealer for the first oil change (I get them for free). I look at the receipt and it says they used 10W30....WTF? I go to the service advisor and ask him what the story is. He says he can't get any 5W20. Huh? He then goes on to say if I have any problems, I can just tell Mazda "that's the oil the dealer used in my car" and that sould take care of it.

Couple of questions, I always change the oil after the first 1,000 miles of any new car I buy. While it may or may not make a difference in durability in fact, I do believe it makes a difference.

--Will 10W30 be detrimental in the RENESIS?
--If so, should I take the car back to the dealer and demand he put in the oil Mazda specifies (and believe the bull he's telling me that he can't get it)?

RX-EVolved

DONT SWEAT IT... I USE ONLY 10-30W RP RELIGIOUSLY!

mikeb

thats weird
mazda used 5-20 on mine

Kremlar

From mobil1.com:


Using Mobil 1 will void my new-car warranty.
With the exception of the Mazda rotary engine (Mazda does not recommend any synthetic motor oils), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ will not void new-car warranties. Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ exceeds the API and ILSAC motor oil service requirements of all new-car manufacturers, both import and domestic. If in doubt, always check your vehicle owner's manual or contact your vehicle's manufacturer.

graphicguy

Appreciate the input. Couple more questions.....

Since I'm coming up on winter climates where I live, I'm wondering whether the 10W30 will cause hard start problems or a drop in MPG?

Will the 10W30 cause any problems with the oil coolers?

I still can't believe that my dealer can't find 5W20. I went to Sam's Club last night and even they had it. I'm suspecting it's a way for the dealer to save a couple of pennies by using 10W30 instead of a little more expensive 5W20.

rotary-tt

That 'Myth' keeps dropping off and then returning to their web site. That message was up there before the RX-8 came out and has since to be updated.

When I checked their "Which Oil for My Car" a few weeks back it recommended Mobil 1 Synthetic.

Kremlar

The statement only claims that Mazda could void your warranty, not that Mobil didn't recommend their oil for the rotary.

It's not a myth - for quite a while Mazda was very against the use of synthetics for good reason.

There was a rumor back in 2000 or so that Mazda had changed their standing on it, but I haven't heard anything hard to back it up.

Whether you think synthetics are bad for a rotary or not is one thing - but Mazda sure was against it, if not now, then several years ago.

If it were me, I'd try to get a solid stance from someone at Mazda (not a dealership employee) before I made my decision.

rotary-tt

By 'Myth' I was just referring to Mobil1's section of their web site. It's no myth that this was their position, my '93 RX-7 manual says explicitly not to use synthetic. My position now is that the new 8 manual does not explicitly say so now and many in the rotary community have run synthetic for years and years without 1 documented issue. Tons of threads regarding this issue on the www.rx7club.com (BTW run by the same people as this forum).

RCCAZ 1

If you're going to use synthetic, I'd go with Royal Purple. Royal Purple is recommended by Racing Beat. Jim Mederer owner of RB has more than 30 years of rotary engine experience and holds a few land speed records in both the FC and FD categories. RB came to this recommendation after extensive engine testing in their onsite test facilities. It's the only synthetic on the market proven (with data) to improve both emissions and increase horsepower. Some of you guys whining about ponies might pick up a few by switching to this product after break-in. Personally I'd make the switchover at about 5K miles if it were my car. I have a Gen 3 R1 with nearly 50K miles and I'm planning to switch in the near future!!

gam

hay, just left the dealer and the word is do not use synthetic oil in the car. it is not good for the rotary eng.

jsotelo

Jesus.. the never ending debate.. okay well let me say my 2 cents and then everyone can ignore me and what everyone else says and post another thread about this in two weeks ;-)

I have a 1987 RX7 with over 100K miles on it. Runs great and it has had dino oil from day 1. I used to run 10-w30 and oil pressure was only good once the RPMs started getting up there. I switched over to 20w-50 and the car ran better.

(moral of the story.. use the weight that the manuel says to use!) If/when I get an 8 I will not run 10w-30.. that's for Hondas not for rotaries Actualy 10w-30 is fine in colder climates.. at least that's what the manuel says.. but in Cali it gets above 80 so 20w-50 it is.

I have done a LOT of research on Dino vs. Synth and a high quality synth burns with as little if not less ash than a dino oil. Mobil 1, Red Line, Royal Purple. The reason Mazda doesn't want you to run a Synth is because they had some problems with cheap synths not burning clean, leaving carbon deposits in the rotor housings that break the apex seals. They are a faily small company and instead of saying.. Royal Purple is okay.. Mobil 1 is okay but XXX isn't okay they just said.. run dino oil.. it's good enough. They don't want to touch it and have test out every engine with the diff synths.. Imagine them saying that Redline is okay but Castrol isn't.. Castol would be pissed and would push Mazda.. ect.

For the trip to sevenstock I put in Mobil 1 15-w50. I knew we would be doing a Touge run and would be going pretty fast down I-5 so I was looking for some added protection over dino. Once I changed the oil I immediatly noticed a difference. The car seriously ran noticably better and reved more freely. I was sold with syth oils within 10 min or driving around the block. 1800 miles later after hours of driving 100 mph+ with quite a few bursts past 120 my car is running as good as, if not better than it was when I first changed the oil. If I was running Dino oil I would feel some "lag" by now. If you are running why I might be running better, the old "Oklahoma tuneup" seem to work well on our engines to clean up a bunch of junk.

I have never used Royal Purple but next oil change I am going to switch from Mobil 1. I met with Dave.. can't remember his last name.. from Royal Purple and he convinced me they had a superior product. Did you know that Mobil 1 oil refineries are a big customer of Royal Purple? They don't even use their own oils in some of the "critical" machines.. they fill them up with Royal Purple. He showed me some metal tests done with Mobil 1 vs Royal Purple and the RP came out WAY ahead. RP also has "detergent" properties that will clean out your engine.

Okay now as for oil voiding your warranty. Why tell Mazda that you are using synth if you have a problem? Dave straight up said that if you were to give him a sample of oil he would have no way of knowing what kind it was without having to spend a LOT of money on lab work.

Finaly.. Jim @ Racing Beat knows his stuff. He says it's cool.. trust me it's cool :-)

Twin 8s!

I asked the dealer the day I picked my up... they stated the same ref SL rating. I have not done it yet but am seriously looking at options. I had a 78 RX-7 in HI and I ran the Amsoil parasynthetic stuff and it really helped the mileage with no ill effects.

Thank you all for the info.

crossbow

jsotelo,

Have you ever performed an oil analysis on your cars?

Just wondering since you seem adamant towards using heavier weight oils.

For the longest time it was a simple argument.

'Heavier oils protect better under extreme conditions"

But this is no longer true. Recently analysis's have shown that the newer "lighter" weight oils actually can protect BETTER then the heavier weight oils.

Not only that, the lighter weigh oils result in a hp increase and mileage increase as well.

This is most likely due to the fact that lighter weight oils come from a much higher quality stock oil then the heavier weights.

Some of the mazda6s guys were extremely concerned with the fact mazda wants us to put 20wt oils in a 3.0 V6. So we did, and followed up with UOA's (used oil analysis's).

Surprisingly, the 0w-20 (thats right, 0w-20) mobil1 in the SUMMER (MD/DC/VA) had better wear numbers then 30 or 40 wt oils.

I encourage you to run some UOA's on your oil via...

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

and check out...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com

You might be pleasantly surprised.

classicred

I am a long time convert to synthetic oil (specifically Amsoil) and have used it for decades. It has been in my supercharged Miata since break in and will be in my V8 Tundra as soon as it's broken in. Howver, I never used it in any of my 4 rotary vehicles - mostly from a financial view.

I am close to the first oil change in my RX-8 and have chosen Motorcraft 5W20 blended -synthetic and dino- oil. There is a limited range of oils of this weight available, and with Ford's involvement with Mazda, I thought it would be a safe bet. Does anyone have opinions on a blended oil such as this?

Gord96BRG

I'm blending my own! The oil capacity of the 8 is somewhere around 7.x litres, yet the oil change volume is only ~3.8 litres. Only half the oil volume gets changed with an oil/filter change. So, every 8000 km I let the dealer do my free oil change, and at 4000 km in between I will change it myself with Syntec. Eventually I will end up with 50/50 dino/synth!

Regards,
Gordon

syntrix

Wow, just noticed this long thread.

I've been saying for a long time here that Mazda does not mention NO SYNTHETICS anywhere in US Owner provided documention.

These other posts, emails, brochures are great, but if Mazda really wanted us all to not use synthetic, they would have to do a circular mail campaign and notify every owner.

I'm still going to run dino oil. However, I could use synthetic no problem... at least until I get notification!!!

Twin 8s!

I had one of the first RX-7s to come into the U.S. After break in, I used Amsoil parasynthetic and had great results.

Nubo

You may be better off sticking with 1 type. The additive packages are not necessarily complimentary

Nubo

Great. So one reason for not using synth is that it "doesn't burn completely". Now we have another reason - it burns "too clean". Argh.

syntrix

Ahahhaah! Internet experts know it all!!!!!

Sharing good knowledge is great... but people have learned it from somewhere. Most often, they don't post the source of their information.

I could be from an engineer. It could also be an arrogant HS kid that's 17 years old that claims more knowledge than an engineer that has hands on experience in the topic!

:D