Titaniumtt

iTrader: (1)

That would be all of you!

I'm new here, not to rotaries though and I have an interesting project that might take a different approach and I want and value your opinions, assuming of course you don't flame me. I'll get this out of the way first, I'm building an auto-x road-course FC (which I will drive to work on nice days of course - its a 27 mile pure backroad commute :D) with a 13B-RE with some REW sequentials bolted on the side & I want to back it with the FE 6-speed..... Not for bling either, the gear ratios on paper look WAY better than the S5 TII trans that I already have. & yes I know about going from the FC .719 to the FE .84 overdrive... I know it's not a cut a paste swap, I know the trans tunnel may be notched, I know I'll need a new driveshaft, & I know I'll need to fabricate my own tranny mounts, none of that bothers me. What bothers me are the rumors I hear about FE trans' blowing up after a few thousand miles. I'm not going for big torque numbers here.... 300ftlbs torquw, 350-375 RWHP @ most I would expect from this package, but, that is more than the stock Renisis. My question to all the experts out there....

1) How mcuh torque can the FE tranny's handle if maintained and shifted reasonably well?
2) Are there any aftermkt gear sets/syncros/bearings readily available?
3) What is the long term durabilty of these trannies? I know some guys are making more power than I'm looking for, I've heard rumors of a UK FB with the FE trans running sub 10's in the quater. What are your impressions of the FE trans.

Lets be reasonable here too. If I get ~15k miles out of the tranny, I would be VERY happy.

Thanks for your help guys, I feel like an outsider jumping the fence here but I would really like your help. Are there any strange Renni initiations/hazings I should be aware of?

-B

Titaniumtt

iTrader: (1)

So out off all of you here, no one has broken a tranny and can tell me at what rear wheel torque it broke at. Well that's slightly encouraging. But we all know that a 13B makes more torque than a renni. (I figure if I **** someone off they may brag about a busted tranny)

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

rading ya man--several of us have broken the trans. I know Team 8 had some trouble--may want to pm him, but on the other hand Charles Hill has nitrous and runs his hard and has never had a trans/driveline problem. my crew tracks a lot and we havent had any issues(we all run the synthetics of course.
olddragger

Titaniumtt

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. I run the redline in my other aisin tranny ('98 Cherokee) and it seems to help. But if you put more torque than it's designed to handle through any box, it's gonna break. But if you guys are draggin these things hard and leaving from 7+RPM, that's a good indication that auto-xing & road racing aren't going to destroy it to quickly. Assuming I'm not jamming gears.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

No one can give ya a definite answer.

Titaniumtt

iTrader: (1)

I know, but if you broke a tranny you can tell me ~ RWTQ and how you broke it. If I get alot of people saying realtively stock motors on road courses, than the tranny is way to weak. But if all the people who are breaking the trans are doing it at the strip dropping the clutch off the rev limiter while spraying..... I have a good chance.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

sorry to report that it's both, it will really depend on how hard you intend to hammer on it

I'd go with an FD3 trans before the SE3P one

I've blown out 2nd gear twice on a stock motor, once on DOT-R tires another on Yoko Advan Neova street tires, both immediately following a hard 1-2 upshift, the first one was at 4500 ft elevation on the DOT-Rs so the motor was even down on power. I've got another spare in the waiting as it's just a matter of time before #3 goes

You can call AW Racing and discuss it with them. They're very familiar with the RX-8 trans, they worked closely with Mazdaspeed developing an upgraded rebuild for road racing, told me it would cost $3000 + parts + trans. I spoke to the guy who does the work for them. He told me it's a real POS from the factory, very sloppy tolerances and such.

as far RWTQ, in my case it's under 145 ft-lb

Titaniumtt

iTrader: (1)

WOW! I expect to be at almost double that. Thanks for the info. I will call Tony, as I have a few of his peices already. I didn't know he was familiar with the SE3P trans. I spoke with Tom over @ 7's Only, he uses this trans in his GT-2 Spec car with alot of success. Powered by a 340 RWHP 13B P-port. Granted not that much torque but lets face it, this is racing where 95% of my time will be on the street. He seems to have developed a fix for about $700 that seems to fit hand in hand with what you're reporting. The hard 1-2 speed upshift. But thanks for the info guys, I appreciate the first hand experience.

TeamRX8 - I have, in my possesion an S5 TII trans with the exact same ratios as the FD. I'm hesitate to use it though becauase the ratios absolutely SUCK for auto-x'ing. @ reline I'll be @ ~43 mph in 1st and well over 70mph in second!! Where as with your FE tranny I'll be a touch over 60 in second. Really much much more suited for tracking the 7 with a 4.1 rear. Thanks again guys, keep the experience coming please.

-B

HeavyMetal699

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...&highlight=rx8

They are running a 20B with the RX-8 tranny. It is modified but here is a quote from rgonza

"I USE THE RX8 6 SPEED, WE UPGRADED INPUT SHAFT AND BEARINGS, tHE iNPUT SHAFT YOU CAN SEND THE OLD ONE TO MACHINE SHOP AND THEIR CAN FABRICATE ONE TO YOUR SPECS. THE YOU CAN FIND IN YOUR LOCAL INDUSTRIAL BEARINGS SUPPLY, WE SELECT A DUAL ROLLER SEFT LINING BEARING IT MORE STRONGER AND CAN HANDLE MORE RPM AND LOAD. wE PROVE THIS TRANSMMISSION AND IT IS DURABLE WITH THE EXEPTION OF THE SECOND SINCRONIZER AND 2 GEAR CROWN. MAYBE YOU NOT HAVE PROBLEM BUT ALL DEPENT OF THE DRIVER SKILLS."

Titaniumtt

iTrader: (1)

This is some great info guys, thanks, keep it coming.

In the interest of sharing, here's what I've found from talking to Tony (AWR) and Tom (7's only) They both agree on the problem, they disagree somewhat on the fix. Tony is rebuilding the trannies from the ground up with much tighter tolerances, reshimming the gear stack, New bearings, polising shafts and gears, machining hubs etc etc etc. Generally run ~$22-2800 GENERALLY DON"T QUOTE ME. 7's only are dissambling trannies, fixing what needs fixing, machinging the hubs, fixing the main cause of the failures and putting them back together. Cost ~$700, again, don't quote me. After the fix though both guys say that the box is stout and they use it for racing. Tom uses them in his turn-key GT-2 Spec 340 RWHP 13BP-Port cars that spin to 10,400 RPM.

Another option that Tony mentioned was Quiafe is now making a 6-speed ratio for the FD trannies. We didn't talk price on that though becuase I know it'll be way more than I want to spend. I want a good box for $1500-$2000.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Like I said, there are issues with 2nd gear.

I take exception to the driver skill comment though because my white '05 routinely cut the best 60 and 200 ft times of all the Stock class RX-8s, the same one that broke two of them. When you have 500+ HP and you're not in serious competition you can afford to take your time between shifts. Now I'm running against AWD turbo cars that are puttting out 320 hp to the rear wheels. I don't have that luxury, nor do the rules allow me to modify the trans internally. Road race competitors regularly blow up non-blueprinted/modded trannies with NA engines too, so it's not just a drag shift phenomena. One of the issues they have is overheating. This would generally suggest internal friction issues.

Note that this is my direct experience, I'm not just dragging up somebody else's quote.

Titaniumtt

iTrader: (1)

Yes I understand. Thank you. The mod that both Tony & Tom are doing aren't allowed by your sactioning body. I would suggest however that your failures seem to be right on par with what both of them are telling me are thier greatest occurance of failures and that if you did have them rebuild/mod your trans, it would happen with much less frenquency. A piece of machinery is only as strong as it's weakest link. This box's weakest link from what numerous people have told me, people such as yourself, people with actual experience not just internet parrots, is the second geat syncro/hub. I'm going to take a chance and have this box modded and throw it in back of my twin turbo Cosmo. Worst that happens, $1500 goes up in a blaze of glory & I get a few new paperweights for my office and maybe a trophy ontop of the entertainment center. Then I drop the S5TII trans right in there becuase the flywheel and clutch are the same :D

BTW - I appreciate the first hand experience, the only way things in the net can be trusted.

HeavyMetal699

"I'm not just dragging up somebody else's quote."

You're right, I don't have any experience with it. So I did some of the leg work so he could talk to someone with experience. TeamRX8 and rgonza are probably the 2 most experienced people on the forum concerning the transmission.

As for internet parrots I could of always told you to search. I apologize for attempting to be helpful.

Titaniumtt

iTrader: (1)

Don't aplogize, You read that wrong. I'm sorry. Over on rx7club & TeamRC3S there is alot of internet parroting. Go search those two forums for the FE 6-spd and you'll get alot if information, none of it reliable, none of it first hand. That is the reason I came to the source & asked the experts. I did search and found alot of tidbits strewn throughout alot of threads and found nothing about a fix. Just blownd-up 2nd gears. This was helpful, and I learned a few things.

-B

Jax_RX8

I agree and that is why I have been encouraging many to just try BG Syncroshift II.

I had the slow, stiff shifting, whining, grind-prone trans that many here seem to be plagued as well with until I changed to this fluid. Syncroshift II instantly and totally loosened up my trans and has reduced the syncro spin-up time to where I can shift very fast when warm and shift reasonably quick when totally cold with no grinding and no more syncro whining.

I think the forced fast shifting (before the syncros can catch up) and the use of GL-4/GL-5 combo fluids (GL-5 high pressure additives are hard on and slow syncro operation) are what is ultimately resulting in broken trans for some.

Switching to a fluid that allows faster syncro operation will reduce syncro wear and reduce fast-shift gear breakage.

Titaniumtt

iTrader: (1)

I have an Aisan tranny in my Cherokee and are proned to the same slow 2nd shift. Redline is what I used to cure mine. Good to know though, even after the fix a good lube that gets ff the syncros quick and allows them to speed the gears is always good to have. I was unaware of so many choices though.

-B