Want a long lasting high mileage Renesis?
10-07-2005 | 04:42 AM
#1
Thread Starter
The game changer!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 298
Likes: 1
From: Tx
Want a long lasting high mileage Renesis?
This storey was so enlightning I just had to post it over hear.
Now the amazing part about this whole storey is that this 12A engine has over 511,000 miles on it.
With all the preventative maintenance that was done to this car, I'm specifically interested in the regular OMP (oil metering pump) rebuilds and the use of engine flush before the oil changes. It's damn near impossible to tell when the OMP goes bad. The regular coolant flushes seem to keep the coolant seals from going prematurely (which is very common in the Fd). Also the engine flush is surprising to me. I would have never realized that it prevented carbon build-up. Carbon sticking of the seals is one of the main reasons a NA rotary doesn't last as long as it should. I felt this may be something you Rx8 owners could implement into your routine maintenance especially with all the storeys about these engines already having carbon sticking problems.
This is the story behind the car the first person to own the car was a Navy Commander Woman who bought it in March of 1978 she got the GS package with the 5 Speed Tranny and sunroof and wider rims and all. Every 7 months she put the car in the dealership for a full tune-up and replacement of everything, ignition wires, points, oil, radiator fluid, fuel filter and filled the car with 89 or 91 octane fuel to reduce carbon deposits.... etc. Yes she kept a running log of all this. I will have to bring it all to a meet or something sometime. It is incredible.
Next she sold it to a Staff Sargent in the Marines and he drove the car to and from a base in California for 4 years. Just about no records from this guy except he replaced the starter, fuel pump, points.
Next he sold it to a 2nd class petty officer in the Navy who took the car to his duty station in Texas. He didn't drive it much at all and sold it to my dad who was stationed there and my dad drove it back to NC.
My Dad loved rotary engines ever since they first came out and he especially loved the SA Series 1 RX-7's '78-'80. He is a maintenance buff on these things.
Every 2 months it was always the same routine; complete change of Oil to 10W40 non synthetic Pennzoil, replace spark plugs with Bosch plugs, replace points and set the gaps which he checked every week. Always used '93 octane Pump Gas. At every oil changed used a can of this stuff called engine flush to flush the oil lines oil Pan and engine of carbon deposits and gum.
I know Engine flush works Excellent because every time he changed the spark plugs they almost looked brand new and he shined his flash light into the holes and it looked shiny shiny shiny the rotors looked shiney and he would crank the rotors around until we could clearly see an Apex seal and those things looked Excellent and were shiney as well!!
He replaced the oil metering pump and lines every 2 years and the radiator once. He put on new fuel lines and oil sending unit to a dummy light since it doesn't have a oil pressure gauge. every 3 years he rebuilt the carburetor with a full rebuild kit.
The car still has its stock thermo reactor and exhaust. Really it is weird. But the exhaust has leaks out the wazoo. he always kept the cars engine bay washed out and the undercarriage washed as well. He always used racing ignition wires and plugs.
He has all service records from it and not one states that engine failure has been documented. But here is the catch. The engine does have compression loss. It doesn't have the power it should have but it is fast none the less.
The whole rear end has been replaced with my '83 GSL and full front suspension as well from my '83 GSL. I must say the oil cooler for the '78 RX-7 is front mounted right below the radiator like in the GSL-SE, which I had and kick myself daily for getting rid of the GSL-SE.
In a nut shell a FULL TUNE UP EVERY 2 MONTHS is what keeps these cars going full strong. I do the same with my '93 and '85 RX-7. a full tune-up every 2 months which includes plugs, plug wires, oil change and engine flush to also flush the turbos from carbon deposits which I will talk about in a moment. I change my '93's oil with 10W30 as prescribed in the owners manual.
I stand by engine flush 100%
I just recently bought a non running '93 RX-7. When I replaced the Boost sensor she cranked right up but was slow as the day. My '85 could outrun her . I engine flushed the car the first time I changed the oil and I couldn't really tell a difference so after a week I changed the oil again and it was pitch black. So I engine flushed her and put new motor oil in her and I noticed a difference in power levels almost immediately. So after a week again I changed the oil and engine flushed her. I put new 10W30 Motor oil in her cranked her up and took off and man oh man let me tell you what.......... " I am sitting in mid air and where in the hell is my car of **** let me go run after it it left me sitting in mid air and took off.... " I believe the engine flush flushed all the carbon deposits out and flushed her turbos of carbon build up and I use it every 2 months and I just recently did one when I got back from Rotaries at the Zoo in with the Raleigh Rotary Crew! and the oil was still looking new. I went ahead and engine flushed her and I changed her plugs. I crawled up underneath the car and put a mirror next to the Spark Plug hole and it was shiny in there just like my '78 and that's when I knew that she was happy and revving freely and I use the K&N Oil filter BTW on all my cars.
**** if you read all of that man you are a hero!
Sorry for the long post but you asked and so you received the info you requested.
Claim BS all you want but I know better because I have lived it.
Next she sold it to a Staff Sargent in the Marines and he drove the car to and from a base in California for 4 years. Just about no records from this guy except he replaced the starter, fuel pump, points.
Next he sold it to a 2nd class petty officer in the Navy who took the car to his duty station in Texas. He didn't drive it much at all and sold it to my dad who was stationed there and my dad drove it back to NC.
My Dad loved rotary engines ever since they first came out and he especially loved the SA Series 1 RX-7's '78-'80. He is a maintenance buff on these things.
Every 2 months it was always the same routine; complete change of Oil to 10W40 non synthetic Pennzoil, replace spark plugs with Bosch plugs, replace points and set the gaps which he checked every week. Always used '93 octane Pump Gas. At every oil changed used a can of this stuff called engine flush to flush the oil lines oil Pan and engine of carbon deposits and gum.
I know Engine flush works Excellent because every time he changed the spark plugs they almost looked brand new and he shined his flash light into the holes and it looked shiny shiny shiny the rotors looked shiney and he would crank the rotors around until we could clearly see an Apex seal and those things looked Excellent and were shiney as well!!
He replaced the oil metering pump and lines every 2 years and the radiator once. He put on new fuel lines and oil sending unit to a dummy light since it doesn't have a oil pressure gauge. every 3 years he rebuilt the carburetor with a full rebuild kit.
The car still has its stock thermo reactor and exhaust. Really it is weird. But the exhaust has leaks out the wazoo. he always kept the cars engine bay washed out and the undercarriage washed as well. He always used racing ignition wires and plugs.
He has all service records from it and not one states that engine failure has been documented. But here is the catch. The engine does have compression loss. It doesn't have the power it should have but it is fast none the less.
The whole rear end has been replaced with my '83 GSL and full front suspension as well from my '83 GSL. I must say the oil cooler for the '78 RX-7 is front mounted right below the radiator like in the GSL-SE, which I had and kick myself daily for getting rid of the GSL-SE.
In a nut shell a FULL TUNE UP EVERY 2 MONTHS is what keeps these cars going full strong. I do the same with my '93 and '85 RX-7. a full tune-up every 2 months which includes plugs, plug wires, oil change and engine flush to also flush the turbos from carbon deposits which I will talk about in a moment. I change my '93's oil with 10W30 as prescribed in the owners manual.
I stand by engine flush 100%
I just recently bought a non running '93 RX-7. When I replaced the Boost sensor she cranked right up but was slow as the day. My '85 could outrun her . I engine flushed the car the first time I changed the oil and I couldn't really tell a difference so after a week I changed the oil again and it was pitch black. So I engine flushed her and put new motor oil in her and I noticed a difference in power levels almost immediately. So after a week again I changed the oil and engine flushed her. I put new 10W30 Motor oil in her cranked her up and took off and man oh man let me tell you what.......... " I am sitting in mid air and where in the hell is my car of **** let me go run after it it left me sitting in mid air and took off.... " I believe the engine flush flushed all the carbon deposits out and flushed her turbos of carbon build up and I use it every 2 months and I just recently did one when I got back from Rotaries at the Zoo in with the Raleigh Rotary Crew! and the oil was still looking new. I went ahead and engine flushed her and I changed her plugs. I crawled up underneath the car and put a mirror next to the Spark Plug hole and it was shiny in there just like my '78 and that's when I knew that she was happy and revving freely and I use the K&N Oil filter BTW on all my cars.
**** if you read all of that man you are a hero!
Sorry for the long post but you asked and so you received the info you requested.
Claim BS all you want but I know better because I have lived it.
Now the amazing part about this whole storey is that this 12A engine has over 511,000 miles on it.
With all the preventative maintenance that was done to this car, I'm specifically interested in the regular OMP (oil metering pump) rebuilds and the use of engine flush before the oil changes. It's damn near impossible to tell when the OMP goes bad. The regular coolant flushes seem to keep the coolant seals from going prematurely (which is very common in the Fd). Also the engine flush is surprising to me. I would have never realized that it prevented carbon build-up. Carbon sticking of the seals is one of the main reasons a NA rotary doesn't last as long as it should. I felt this may be something you Rx8 owners could implement into your routine maintenance especially with all the storeys about these engines already having carbon sticking problems.
Last edited by T-von; 10-07-2005 at 04:57 AM.
10-07-2005 | 11:45 AM
#2
Oil Injection
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,672
Likes: 2
From: Orlando, FL
interesting, i think some of it is overkill, but to each his own. 511k miles is amazing!
I change the oil/filter ever 3 months/3k miles, radiator/trany/diff/spark plugs/plug wires/air filter/fuel filter ever year/15k miles and all my cars have run as good as the day I got them.
I havent used it in the RX8 yet (my first rotary) and I dont know if I will, but in the vette (94 ZR1) and the Miata, i would pour 8oz of B12 Chem tool in the oil fill neck, when cold. Then start the car, and drive it around the block till water/oil were up to temp, then park it and drain the oil HOT. It helps get all that gunk out of the car. Good stuff. I also use it to clean the intake manifold and head once ever 2 years on the cars.
I change the oil/filter ever 3 months/3k miles, radiator/trany/diff/spark plugs/plug wires/air filter/fuel filter ever year/15k miles and all my cars have run as good as the day I got them.
I havent used it in the RX8 yet (my first rotary) and I dont know if I will, but in the vette (94 ZR1) and the Miata, i would pour 8oz of B12 Chem tool in the oil fill neck, when cold. Then start the car, and drive it around the block till water/oil were up to temp, then park it and drain the oil HOT. It helps get all that gunk out of the car. Good stuff. I also use it to clean the intake manifold and head once ever 2 years on the cars.
10-07-2005 | 12:05 PM
#4
Oil Injection
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,672
Likes: 2
From: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by 10kRPMS
why would you use oil flush in the rx8, all the oil doesn't come out on a change and would leave oil flush in the crank case
I dont want to leave an agent in the oil system that disolves the oil gunk...cause over time it could eat up the oil lines or thin out the oil to much.
Also i dont want the stuff injected into the combustion chamber cause im not sure what it would do to the seals iside the motor.
Piston motors fine, but i dont think I will use anything but oil, in the oil.
10-11-2005 | 03:22 AM
#5
Thread Starter
The game changer!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 298
Likes: 1
From: Tx
Originally Posted by 10kRPMS
why would you use oil flush in the rx8, all the oil doesn't come out on a change and would leave oil flush in the crank case
Because apparently it's not hurting the engine. Thats a lot of miles. Deposits still build up over time. I love the way it's keeping the rotors from carbon build-up which is very important in keeping up the engines compression and controlling detonation. I'm sure there is still left over flush in the engine because of the oil coolers. You guys have to also understand that older rotary engines were able to expel carbon deposits away from the apex seals out of the peripheral exhaust port. This is completely different for the side exhaust Renesis. Not all of the deposits will exit these engines therefore possibly leaving additional carbon build-up in the apex seal grooves causing them to stick as your mileage goes up.
Last edited by T-von; 10-11-2005 at 03:26 AM.
10-11-2005 | 03:25 AM
#6
Thread Starter
The game changer!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 298
Likes: 1
From: Tx
Originally Posted by KYLiquid
I dont want to leave an agent in the oil system that disolves the oil gunk...cause over time it could eat up the oil lines or thin out the oil to much.
Also i dont want the stuff injected into the combustion chamber cause im not sure what it would do to the seals iside the motor.
With that many miles on the clock, do you really think that would be a problem? Seriously this engine has been flushed for years and is showing no ill effects and is still running.
Last edited by T-von; 10-11-2005 at 03:27 AM.
05-24-2011 | 11:06 PM
#7
Registered
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Isn't oil flush just a super, super light oil? On rotaries before the Renesis, perhaps this wouldn't be as much of an issue due to the fact that pre-Renesis engines had the middle-seal OMP injectors, and pre-Renesis engines produced lower levels of localized heat. 10w40 barely cuts the mustard in holding viscosity after 3k miles on a Renesis, so you wouldn't want to risk having all of that oil flush sitting in the oil coolers (especially if you have two), at least I wouldn't.
05-25-2011 | 12:40 AM
#10
Registered
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 12,255
Likes: 7
From: Buddhist Monastery, High Himalaya Mtns. of Tibet
Isn't oil flush just a super, super light oil? On rotaries before the Renesis, perhaps this wouldn't be as much of an issue due to the fact that pre-Renesis engines had the middle-seal OMP injectors, and pre-Renesis engines produced lower levels of localized heat. 10w40 barely cuts the mustard in holding viscosity after 3k miles on a Renesis, so you wouldn't want to risk having all of that oil flush sitting in the oil coolers (especially if you have two), at least I wouldn't.
05-26-2011 | 04:46 AM
#11
I know that number sounds really high. But for a 12A to make it to 200,000 and even beyond was quite common. 12A's are basically bulletproof in stock trim. 93 octane in a 12A is also stupid, it had nothing to do with the mileage of that motor.
My god look at the OP's posting date. wtf?
My god look at the OP's posting date. wtf?
Last edited by hornbm; 05-26-2011 at 04:49 AM.
08-27-2013 | 01:30 PM
#14
Rotary Evolution
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 853
Likes: 2
From: Central FL
apparently no one reads.
a) this thread is as old as the 8 is.
b) the renesis is as similar to a 12a as an LSx is to a first gen SBC 2 bolt main.
c) 12a engines regularly made it to 200k+ miles without any issues aside from carburetion/tune up issues.
d) if you think you can ever get 500k out of a renesis, you would be completely wrong.
e) you could probably go to the wrecking yard and pull out a 12a, drop it in something else and it would probably still run just fine. find a renesis at a wrecker and you better cross your fingers it has a good engine in it.
i have yet seen a renesis torn apart with over 130k that wasn't on it's last legs with compression. the magic formula is lubrication, load, internal cleanliness and decarbs regularly. switching out your 10 year old fuel pumps isn't a bad idea either. that said i would be amazed to see a renesis ever last beyond 250k even with everything in ideal harmony, at which point half the chrome would be gone from the housings.
now if mazda ever chose to use ceramic seals, these failures would be so much less common and i could envision even a renesis lasting to that level if maintained properly. low compression is usually a result of worn housings, extremely low compression is usually a result of broken peripheral seals on the side of the rotor which are usually broken due to outside contributors of the engine.
want something that lasts? buy something that was built at least 30 years ago. nothing new in this world is worth a damn, end of story.
a) this thread is as old as the 8 is.
b) the renesis is as similar to a 12a as an LSx is to a first gen SBC 2 bolt main.
c) 12a engines regularly made it to 200k+ miles without any issues aside from carburetion/tune up issues.
d) if you think you can ever get 500k out of a renesis, you would be completely wrong.
e) you could probably go to the wrecking yard and pull out a 12a, drop it in something else and it would probably still run just fine. find a renesis at a wrecker and you better cross your fingers it has a good engine in it.
i have yet seen a renesis torn apart with over 130k that wasn't on it's last legs with compression. the magic formula is lubrication, load, internal cleanliness and decarbs regularly. switching out your 10 year old fuel pumps isn't a bad idea either. that said i would be amazed to see a renesis ever last beyond 250k even with everything in ideal harmony, at which point half the chrome would be gone from the housings.
now if mazda ever chose to use ceramic seals, these failures would be so much less common and i could envision even a renesis lasting to that level if maintained properly. low compression is usually a result of worn housings, extremely low compression is usually a result of broken peripheral seals on the side of the rotor which are usually broken due to outside contributors of the engine.
want something that lasts? buy something that was built at least 30 years ago. nothing new in this world is worth a damn, end of story.
Last edited by Karack; 08-27-2013 at 01:42 PM.
08-27-2013 | 02:18 PM
#15
Registered
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,382
Likes: 11
C is false, there are some 12A's that made it to 200k, but the vast majority are in that 80-150k ballpark...
additionally, the chrome falls right off the rotor housings, even in the 90's you had to tear down 5 engines to get a marginal pair of 12A rotor housings. also notice that we had that many engines to tear apart...
they like to leak oil from the dowel pins too.
they do wear the irons, and bearings less than the renesis, and they are much less picky about the condition of the internal parts. IE you can slap together a bunch of used parts and it runs, which is nice.
but its a myth that every 12A went 200k, they didn't.
additionally, the chrome falls right off the rotor housings, even in the 90's you had to tear down 5 engines to get a marginal pair of 12A rotor housings. also notice that we had that many engines to tear apart...
they like to leak oil from the dowel pins too.
they do wear the irons, and bearings less than the renesis, and they are much less picky about the condition of the internal parts. IE you can slap together a bunch of used parts and it runs, which is nice.
but its a myth that every 12A went 200k, they didn't.
08-29-2013 | 01:14 AM
#20
I could write code for you haters, you're so predictable.
There, if a moderator could implement this on the backend, then I just saved these haters lots of time.
Code:
def function: noobz_cant_win(rx8clubthread)
str -> str
"This function automates ******* of teh noobz"
IF
noob posts NEW rx8clubthread
THEN
return string "omg search noob"
ELSE
noob searches & posts in OLD rx8clubthread
THEN
return string "omg wow noobs can't read"
END
08-29-2013 | 07:52 AM
#22
08-29-2013 | 09:30 AM
#23
I simlply don't understand the hostility directed toward those posting in old threads.
08-29-2013 | 09:33 AM
#24
You would be hard pressed to find a 'hater' on this forum that works in industry as an innovator, educator, engineer, or problem solver. Welcome to society, where the more educated are burdened by living in a sea of those with no purpose.
Last edited by paimon.soror; 08-29-2013 at 09:38 AM.
08-29-2013 | 08:03 PM
#25
Day Walker
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 585
Likes: 18
I could write code for you haters, you're so predictable.
There, if a moderator could implement this on the backend, then I just saved these haters lots of time.
Code:
def function: noobz_cant_win(rx8clubthread)
str -> str
"This function automates ******* of teh noobz"
IF
noob posts NEW rx8clubthread
THEN
return string "omg search noob"
ELSE
noob searches & posts in OLD rx8clubthread
THEN
return string "omg wow noobs can't read"
END