Car wont start (Out of town and desparate)
10-22-2010 | 04:11 PM
#26
Thread Starter
04 and still lovin it
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 297
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From: Toronto
Nice write up VooDoo, sounds exacly like what I ran into.
I'll have to visit item 5. Things have been good for a few weeks but not fixed. Today it returned, but started on a second attempt with hesitation. Battery was tested last week, passed with flying colors.
I'll have to visit item 5. Things have been good for a few weeks but not fixed. Today it returned, but started on a second attempt with hesitation. Battery was tested last week, passed with flying colors.
So I just had the same scenario happen to me. 700 mile drive over two days (majority highway at 65 - 80 mph), homeward bound leg with about 150 miles left to go, car has been running flawlessly. Getting to be early evening, need a rest stop break and a bite to eat so pull into McD. In and out a few minutes later, car starts fine as always. Drive another 20 minutes and get to a Sunoco station with decent prices for 93 octane so pull in for a refill. Refill complete, turn the key and... one click on the starter.
Get out and check fuses, relays, battery terminal connections, etc. Only thing I find is connector to negative terminal on battery is a wee loose (can jiggle it a tad). Also note just a little white powdery oxidation on back half of negative terminal connector. Brand new Diehard Platinum battery so chalk that up to a little settle in the connector since I installed battery a few weeks earlier. No tools with me (had just transferred to my truck for the winter). Pretty much dead meat. Another guy pulls up to the pump about 20 minutes later and sees me hunched over the engine bay with the hood up - takes a minute to ask me what's up - I tell him no start. Ask him if he could help push the car to the end of the parking lot (about a 30 foot haul) where there is a small drop off in the pavement - hoping to build up enough momentum to be able to pop the clutch. He agrees, we do it, car starts, I drive home without shutting off again. Once home, try a few more times but still... one solid click.
First chance to work on it was last night. Step one is to mix a baking powder and water solution, pour over the negative battery terminal (careful not to get any near positive terminal and make a connection via water), and dissolve the oxidation. Then check battery voltage - solid 14+ volts so no problem there. Then try starter... one solid click.
Step two, prop the car up crawl under it and visually inspect starter. Looks fine. Test current coming from the battery to the main power terminal on the solenoid - also 14+ volts so no problem with incoming juice. Give the solenoid a couple of good whacks with a hammer just in case the solenoid is hung up. Try starter... one click.
Step three, start checking connections on starter one by one. First one is the main power lead coming into the solenoid. Note that it is secure, but about a quarter turn from being completely snug. Remove and clean this connector with a little fine grit sandpaper, put it back on and snug it down. Try starter... one click.
Step four, next check the connector for the ignition switch. It is on tight but note it is a little dirty. Clean the connector tab with fine grit sandpaper, reattach the connector, and try starter... one click.
Step five, check the connector on the solenoid with the lead to the starter itself. It is snug. Take it off anyway and clean with sandpaper. Reinstall and snug down. Try starter and... It Starts Right Up!!!
Started and restarted a half dozen times after it warmed up - flawless.
Go out for a drive to start resetting fuel trims, etc (since I disconnected the battery back in step 1) - shut down / restart at least another half-dozen times - still flawless.
Keeping fingers crossed now that it was only the connections that needed a little attention!!!
Get out and check fuses, relays, battery terminal connections, etc. Only thing I find is connector to negative terminal on battery is a wee loose (can jiggle it a tad). Also note just a little white powdery oxidation on back half of negative terminal connector. Brand new Diehard Platinum battery so chalk that up to a little settle in the connector since I installed battery a few weeks earlier. No tools with me (had just transferred to my truck for the winter). Pretty much dead meat. Another guy pulls up to the pump about 20 minutes later and sees me hunched over the engine bay with the hood up - takes a minute to ask me what's up - I tell him no start. Ask him if he could help push the car to the end of the parking lot (about a 30 foot haul) where there is a small drop off in the pavement - hoping to build up enough momentum to be able to pop the clutch. He agrees, we do it, car starts, I drive home without shutting off again. Once home, try a few more times but still... one solid click.
First chance to work on it was last night. Step one is to mix a baking powder and water solution, pour over the negative battery terminal (careful not to get any near positive terminal and make a connection via water), and dissolve the oxidation. Then check battery voltage - solid 14+ volts so no problem there. Then try starter... one solid click.
Step two, prop the car up crawl under it and visually inspect starter. Looks fine. Test current coming from the battery to the main power terminal on the solenoid - also 14+ volts so no problem with incoming juice. Give the solenoid a couple of good whacks with a hammer just in case the solenoid is hung up. Try starter... one click.
Step three, start checking connections on starter one by one. First one is the main power lead coming into the solenoid. Note that it is secure, but about a quarter turn from being completely snug. Remove and clean this connector with a little fine grit sandpaper, put it back on and snug it down. Try starter... one click.
Step four, next check the connector for the ignition switch. It is on tight but note it is a little dirty. Clean the connector tab with fine grit sandpaper, reattach the connector, and try starter... one click.
Step five, check the connector on the solenoid with the lead to the starter itself. It is snug. Take it off anyway and clean with sandpaper. Reinstall and snug down. Try starter and... It Starts Right Up!!!
Started and restarted a half dozen times after it warmed up - flawless.
Go out for a drive to start resetting fuel trims, etc (since I disconnected the battery back in step 1) - shut down / restart at least another half-dozen times - still flawless.
Keeping fingers crossed now that it was only the connections that needed a little attention!!!
10-22-2010 | 04:14 PM
#27
Thread Starter
04 and still lovin it
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
From: Toronto
thanks for the note on the fuse location.That wire is for Lebren's the dip stick light, that light is a great item to have, should have been there from the start.
10-23-2010 | 12:19 PM
#28
Thread Starter
04 and still lovin it
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
From: Toronto
Well had two more no starts this morning.
So back under the car, check for voltage and amperage to the starter, looked good but still not starting. Inspected the three connectors to the starter again (per VooDoo point #5). All "looked good" but I completely cleaned them regardless. put them all back on again, started first try. At this point I'm going with a poor connection but only a bit of time will tell. I'm going to the track tomorrow, not an ideal time to determine the durability of this fix, plan "B" is not to go to the track....ya right.
So back under the car, check for voltage and amperage to the starter, looked good but still not starting. Inspected the three connectors to the starter again (per VooDoo point #5). All "looked good" but I completely cleaned them regardless. put them all back on again, started first try. At this point I'm going with a poor connection but only a bit of time will tell. I'm going to the track tomorrow, not an ideal time to determine the durability of this fix, plan "B" is not to go to the track....ya right.
11-29-2010 | 06:57 PM
#30
Thread Starter
04 and still lovin it
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
From: Toronto
Quick update, After cleaning all the contact points to the starter (despite looking clean) The car has started flawlessly ever since 5 weeks and counting. I'm calling this fixed and thanks for all the assistance , I hope this thread is useful for others.
02-08-2011 | 04:50 PM
#31
I have the same problem with my 8 (wont crank). Only difference is it will only start if the temp is above -8c. Sounds funny, but if I leave it in the garage over night or for a week, it will start no problem. If I leave it outside and the temp drops below -8c then no crank. I still have plenty of power but nothing happens. If I keep turning the key eventually it will start, Its never stranded me somewhere, but it may take a 100 turns and it will finally turn over. The battery and starter are both only a year old and the car has never been flooded. When it does crank, it turns over no problem. I cleaned all the connections and I ran a wire from the "s" terminal on the starter to under the hood. The idea being that when it doesn't start I can see if I'm getting the "start" signal to the starter. So I tried it out today, no crank, check for power at my "s" terminal, NONE. So my starter is not getting the signal when its cold. My question is; Which relay is the starter relay, none of them are labeled as that, the closest is labeled "IGN" but I don't think that is it it. I have all the wiring diagrams but not the locations in the PDM. Any help would be appreciated.
also i've bypassed the starter interrupt switch so it doesn't interfere with rest of my diagnostics, so consider it eliminated.
also i've bypassed the starter interrupt switch so it doesn't interfere with rest of my diagnostics, so consider it eliminated.
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