It's not even about cancer now, must use the same address for everything. Basically what the video was saying is they want a black box like on the aircraft put in cars, and how the NHTSA was under fire from a bunch of different groups and so on for not really doing there job, and some of them getting paid off to look the other way. Maybe I should send it in, then they'd have to look at it, and not pass it up since they are being watched really close now.

Race Roots clutch reinforcement install
 

I got that done this weekend. It was definitely worthwhile to remove the driver's seat from the car beforehand to allow better access under the dash. There's some simple drilling that's not too hard to do. My bracket was likely in pretty good shape to start with having only 13k miles on it, but the reinforcement did make the pedal feel more secure, plus at least for now, a squeak has disappeared.

My 04 broken at 59,000 yesterday. Had it replaced this morning at the dealership. Feels like once your clutch starts squeaking, you've pretty much had it. Filed a complaint at NHTSA, would suggest anybody with the problem do that, so we can get MAZDA pay attention to the problem.

Really bad when you suddenly lose the clutch!

Yep, complaints might help. I debated whether to wait for a potential recall, but decided I didn't want to risk getting stranded somewhere - plus I really hated that squeak. I have my doubts though that Mazda will respond unless forced to do so and the NHTSA has bigger fish to fry right now.

I finally have time to install my reinforcement kit. My '04 is at 47.4k miles, and the clutch started to make a clunking type of sound halfway through the travel (on depression only) about 500-600 miles ago. Here's what I found:

https://www.rx8club.com/picture.php?...ictureid=16279
https://www.rx8club.com/picture.php?...ictureid=16280
https://www.rx8club.com/picture.php?...ictureid=16281

In the first image, you can see the plastic cap on one side of the spring is split and about gone. The plastic cap on the other side is completely broken off and missing. Can the plastic caps be bought and replaced?

I can't see any visible tearing of the bracket, but as you can see there's a section where the 2 stamped metals are starting to separate, like the bottom of the top sheet is bent out. I'm reinstalling with the Fluid reinforcement bracket kit; should I also bother with putting some JB Weld in between the area where the 2 sheets are starting to separate?

I hadn't realized before I put on the RR bracket, that the spring goes over-center during the depression of the clutch pedal. In other words, for the upper part of the travel, the spring forces the pedal up, and for the lower 1/2, it forces the pedal down. If those little plastic bushings are worn, it's going to 'clunk' when the direction of the spring force changes. While the 8 in many ways is a supercar with a $25k price tag, it does suffer at times from the product cheapening department in ways a Porsche would not.

I jus joined the snapped clutch pedal club!hehe!...I actually thought changing the tranny n diff fluid a week ago was the cause of my difficulty in shifting or getting into gear. Thank God it snapped while I was in the driveway and not while I was out of town or on the road!

Anyways, quick question to those who had theirs replaced already with another OEM part. How much does the whole assembly cost from the stealership? I wanna kno if getting the reinforced bracket from raceroot for 300$ is worth the purchase.
link:
http://raceroots.com/index.php/produ...-assembly.html

So aside from the clunk sound from the springs, do I need to worry about further damage - without the plastic pieces in place, will the spring tear through the stamped metal of the bracket?

Also, my long and short pieces of the reinforcement brace don't align. Either the long piece needs to be longer, or the short piece needs to be taller/thicker at the base.

https://www.rx8club.com/picture.php?...ictureid=16312

This is where the hole aligns when my short reinforcement bracket piece is installed, is this correct?:

https://www.rx8club.com/picture.php?...ictureid=16311

Wow! That's a long way off. It's been so long since I did mine, I can't remember all the details. I did put mine in a vice to drill the holes. My bracket was not symmetric as the snapping, twisting and welding all contributed to distortion. However with the supplied temporary brackets for drilling the holes, everything did fit into place but I did have to work with it.

Looks like you caught yours just in time. I think my plastic caps are long gone and I never worried about them. I don't know if the JB would help or not. I suppose it could help with possible squeaking but I wouldn't consider it a substitute for welding.

It's about where mine came out, but can be improved somewhat by placing the long piece on the other side of the tab from what the instructions show which makes the bracket more in plane.


My kit was shipped without instructions by mistake. So, un-encumbered by them, I took the inside RR reinforcement bracket as the reference for drilling the holes. I put that bracket in place and used a scribe with a 90 deg point on the end to scratch circles onto the inside of the Mazda part, through the holes in the RR bracket. Then, looking where the holes were relative to the stamped ridgeline, I center-punched and drilled from the outside in.
Doing that, and referencing the picture above, the hole in the sheet metal came out about 1/2 of a hole diameter towards the 2 o'clock position wrt the hole you're showing in the outside reinforcement bracket.

Wiggling things around and slight bends in the Mazda piece gets things to fit ok. The real issue is that the Mazda part is a POS, and made more so by flexing in use.

I knew I should have taken pics while I did this. :pat:

This occurs occasionally when the pedal has seen a little to much flexing and the base is a bit warped because of its thin metal. Loosen the bottom bolt so you have more play. Align the Top bracket and the bottom bracket hole with a drill then finger tighten the bottom bolt with the drill piece in place. Drill thru both pieces at the same time all the way to the other side.

Let me know if you need further assistance.

This is a convenience service that we offer. Currently I am out of used cores so you would have to send me yours for me to install on your unit at that price.

A new pedal sells for $215 from the dealership.

We sell a complete new assembly with bracket already installed for $395 shipped

Here's the instructions from the old Mazsport installation which is what I used.

http://picasaweb.google.com/Mazsport...Reinforcement#

Hope this helps.

EDIT:

Decided it would be a good idea to post them here.

^.........didn't see any instructions just pics, so here are the "Old, but Revised Mazsport" instructions!
I think Brice can confirm whether or not the RaceRoots are close..........if not the same.

My clutch pedal went out today with a *pop* sounds coming to a stop light. My car is an '04 with 74k miles on it. I reported it to NHTSA(although it doesn't seem like there are any progress). Does anyone know how long the clutch pedal assembly from race-root takes to get shipped(to Oregon)? Would anyone know what would be the fastest way to get a new clutch pedal assembly? I'm sure the dealer nearby would take about a week to get it.

I feel your pain. This is a very frustrating and senseless issue and the only way to guarantee this will not happen to you is to be proactive and fix the clutch bracket before it happens. Make sure you spread the word and try to save someone else from this irresponsible mistake from Mazda. I know that doesn't address your question but now you are a member of the club and I hear-by declare members of club are by default lifetime members duly bound to help our brethren out.

You can get the clutch overnighted by Fedex or UPS or take the clutch off and have it welded by a local shop. The weld is a quick and painless process and you could have it done and install it back in one day.

Keep us informed of your progress.

Here's another helpful bracket installation link with good pictures:

http://www.coloradomazdaclub.com/for...ead.php?t=2726

Be careful you don't overly compress the starter interlock switch.

btw: Race Roots bracket = Mazsport, so the pdf above is valid.

I had to "reset" that switch (the one that engages when the pedal is down), by pulling rather hard on the stem until it "ratchets" out to full length. Afterwards, pushing in on the clutch automatically resets the length to the proper value. If it's too short, the switch won't sense the depressed clutch, preventing the car from starting.

I knew it was, but I felt like I had to use that disclaimer(of sorts). :suspect:

after months of finally waiting, i have my raceroots reinforced clutch pedal installed. [it was sitting in my closet for a long while].

after waiting a couple months [dealer re-welded the original], i started noticing the pedal start to wiggle a bit, not to mention it was no longer aligned with the brake pedal. it seemed to sag to the left about a 1/4 of an inch and was about 1/2 an inch lower than the brake pedal. so after looking at that, [and scaring the heck out of me] i decided to have it replaced with the reinforced pedal, and i have to say, it is a lot stiffer! if i try to move the pedal from side to side, it wants to hold its ground. at least, i wont be as paranoid as i was before!

FYI: RR group buy
 

That was my impression as well - that even welding may not improve things that much because the stock bracket is just plain flimsy.

FYI: Race Roots is putting together a group buy. The present thread on this is:

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-aftermarket-performance-modifications-23/clutch-pedal-bracket-group-buy-194437/

My bracket also died, 2004 MT with 46,000 miles. It snapped off as I was turning into my Aunt and Uncle's driveway. I'll be sure to file a complaint with the NHTSA and post pics when I get it back from the dealer.

Guys just an update. The raceroots clutch pedal re-enforcement kit group buy is ending in a few days. Get in while its hot! 10 more people and we can get an excellent price. Check it out here:

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=194437

Group buy don't happen too often, get it in for a good price and fix you clutch pedal without worries for the future!

lol! wow

$105 for a bracket that doesn't actually fix the problem? Seriously?

Why would anyone actually consider this?

Just get it properly welded and leave the over-priced band-aids to the Honda crowd.

I have to disagree with you on this one Jeff. Although from a purely semantics perspective the Race Roots bracket doesn't 'fix' the problem, it certainly makes it mechanically near impossible to snap the plate welds. The firewall-slave cylinder bolt attachment points are directly reinforced and adverse lateral forces are minimized.

Obviously as someone who has installed the bracket I can't help but appear jaded, but I did my due diligence prior to purchase and as an engineer was convinced this was a good way to go until, hopefully, Mazda offers a better designed unit.

I would recommend it even if the plate is re-welded for complete assurance as the stock plate is flimsy at best.

my only issue with the bracket is the reasoning the OE braket is barely tack welded in the first place. Its meant to bend/break/give in a crash. Welding the bracket fixes our issues, and reduces the suggested safety feature to some degree or another I'm sure. But i'd bet it will still give on some level. The bracket I dont think would allow it to give any.

Plus welding it is just as quick and easy as the bracket, and free for many people to do.

^ Whereas true that automobiles are now designed to protect occupants, to that end with 'crush zones' being prevalent, a weak man-machine interface is a poor compromise imho. It's possible that your safety may be adversely affected by a snapping plate when underway. I'll take my chances with a reinforced clutch bracket that enhances my operational safety. I thereby just might avoid a crash and therefore have no need for this particular crush zone.

It doesnt?

How come everyone that has purchased one never had any further issues of a snapping pedal?

Or the fact that people that snapped their pedals can buy this and the pedal works again...

If you want to say it doesnt work you need to have proof that it doesn't work.

Once again you are making theories based on assumption or purely doing so for being an ass. I am going with number 2.

ICM..right? Or was it ICE...

FML clutch pedal just snapped right now, i barely made it home. Now im gonna be RX8less my clutch went to hell right now, syncros are now done for. I hate the situation i'm in. Now i need a new clutch pedal, new clutch,gonna get a flywheel combo, transmission is gonna need a new rebuild with fresh syncros :/ also im totally considering buying race roots clutch brackets and syncro savers, Brice as you know i need a pricing on clutch,flywheel,clutch bracket,syncro savers, MT90 oil.

^ Well, at least you have a good excuse for installing a lightweight flywheel since it'll be disassembled for the new clutch anyway.

With 12k miles on it, my factory bracket was in perfect shape as near as I could tell. However, it also had a squeak and was easily moved from side-to-side. Welding the base is not going to fix the fact that the thin metal has very little strength moving sideways in the "flat" direction. The bracket adds heft and triangulation that welding does not. Welding thin sheet properly is also a bit of an art, and if not done right it's easy to build in stresses and make the part brittle after welding and thus prone to cracking later.

I'm quite happy with the bracket. There's virtually no sideways motion or squeak in the pedal any longer and the clutch engagement feels more precise. This plus the synchro-saver gives a snick-snick feel to shifting that is very much more pleasant than before, rather like the difference between the "tink" of closing a Yugo door vs. the "thunk" of an Audi.

Better feel, more precise shifts, and most likely a reduction in expensive tranny, clutch, and bracket failure problems - what's not to like?

It's hard for me to see how that 'give' is intentionally engineered in, if, for not other reason, clutch brackets are not failing like this in other cars. If the clutch pedal comes back at your feet in a crash, at worst your foot pushes the pedal down just like we have to do a zillion times per commute anyway.

Nope. It doesn't.

Anecdotal. (and hearsay)

Also anecdotal.

Nope. One needn't prove a negative. The burden of proof is on you as you are asserting an outcome and, as is typical, you are selling over-priced "solutions" that don't actually solve anything.

That is because, as usual, it is easier for you to do this than actually addressing the needed data for your snake oil.

Welding the base fixes the problem of it cracking, not the sideways movement.

For the alloy of metal they are using and thickness it's not that complicated, I've done thinner. MIG or TIG would fix it and not add stress like you think, unless one doesn't know what proper amperage, alloy or technique to use. This isn't cast iron in regards to creeping stress. In fact, I would be more worried over a thick piece for welding when worried about cracking, not thin because of penetration of the weld required.

For thin pieces I'd be worried about blowing right through the piece moreso than cracking.

Not true.

When it is welded properly, it creates a different box-section and the lateral movement is eliminated.

Just fix the pedal for starters . All the other symptoms may well dissappear once that is done .

Those people who think that welding the bottom plate to the pedal bracket does anything really want to have a good look at it and ask themselves how strong is a 0.5mm piece of sheetmetal . All that bootom plate is there for is to hold in place the firewall bosses and that little bkt that holds the shaft up as you install the thing . Welding the bottom plate solid to the bkt will do stuff all to strenghten anything .....

Might want to have that same conversation with your hood, trunk, side sills, floor pans, brake pedal bracket, etc.

The thickness of the metal is not an issue - we are only putting a few dozen ft/lbs of torque on it.
It is the effective box-section that decides the strength.

What are we in court? Seriously your comments can be considered hearsay as well if you were to play silly mind games as well.

You never cease to make me laugh.

While your reasoning is ok - you are still wrong .
That plate under the bracket is little better than tissue paper for strength and the tack welds that hold it in place are a good indicator as to how much work the plate is expected to do - none.
The way these brackets fail is throught flexing of the L shaped piece that the bolt goes through . That part is simply not strong enough .
If the plate below it was made of 1.5mm or thicker I would agree that welding to it would be a benefit .

"our hood, trunk, side sills, floor pans, brake pedal bracket, etc." is not breaking.

The lower 'box' on the bracket adds something like 2-3 mm of metal to the 0.5 mm sheet. The stiffness of an I-beam goes up as about the 5th power of the increase of web thickness. Even being doubly conservative, that piece is increasing the stiffness by something like 4^4=256 times.

A direct comparison of welding vs. adding the bracket might be useful. However, it still doesn't eliminate the fact that most people don't have both the welding equipment and the skill to weld thin sheet in their garage, which means disabling the car and taking it to a shop for welding. Not everyone has an extra car sitting around to do that with. In contrast, anyone with a drill and a little aptitude can do their own bracket installation in an afternoon. Even assuming both techniques work as well, one person may choose one method over another based on their own situation. I made my choice, the bracket, others choose to weld. I am glad to have had the choice, and just because someone else chooses differently, doesn't mean they are idiots. It's called the free market (insert waving flag). If RR items are overpriced and useless (according to MM), the free market will put them out of business. Some call the BHR coil kits overpriced and useless, but I chose to buy them after doing what passes for research. I found very little in the way of facts or comparison testing on the BHR website itself to convince me to buy them. What did cause me to choose to do so were reports 'from the field' which you seem here to think are generated by the "clueless". The very process you depend on for business seems to be okay for you, but not okay for others. As a business, you are of course free to introduce a competing product at a lower price. You may also choose to employ the methods of negative advertising in advance of introducing your own product. The difference is of course that RaceRoots is not some faceless monolith, it's a guy or two. I suspect anyone producing parts for a car as rare as the RX-8 isn't gonna retire rich.

From my own point-of-view, anyone who tries to support such an unusual corner of the car universe deserves a measure of respect. To liken Brice to a snake-oil salesman for an honest attempt to solve a real problem with these cars is at least disrespectful, and, coming from another vendor with possible plans to introduce a competing product, suspicious in intent. From your technical discussions, I can see you're a smart guy, and have enjoyed those discussions. Opinions however, vary, and you are not the only smart guy in the universe, or even on these forums. (This opinion of course is easily discountable, since I just happily bought snake-oil from the snake-oil salesman - good for the digestion I hear.)

^^ agree 100%.

"Snake oil", hummm, This has been some of the best snake oil I ever purchased. Weld and bracket has served me 30+ track events over the the last 2 years (yesterday was 2 years since it snapped). I have added about 40,000 miles on a firm clutch pedal. Much firmer than just the weld. I'm sure I would have done fine with just the weld but I do like the stiffer feel with the bracket. I would do it again.

We already had a "competing product" out for years.
We withdrew it because it wasn't worth the effort.

Don't forget, this is a MazSport product, not a "Brice" product we're talking about, BTW.

FWIW, my 123,000 mile OE bracket was welded 60,000 miles ago and it is absolutely rock-solid on the street and track and cost, essentially, nothing.

Yeah im gonna have a tow truck pick up my car tommorow T-T and have the new pedal under warrenty, my gears kept grinding in 4th. hopefully i can get everything fixed under warrenty hopefully they can squeese in a clutch, im gonna swap it out with a ACT and keep the stock one just in case if anything every happens.

In other words, you charged too little money for it to be worth your effort, but are critical of RRoots for charging more money so it is worth their effort. It seems like free enterprise in action to me. (insert waving flag)

Not sure I ever knew that. Looking through old posts, it seems MS went out of business in part due to taking people's money and not delivering the product in a timely fashion. When ordering the synchro-saver last time RR's Shipping Department :) managed to sent me the tracking number *before* I managed to fully pay for it. [ me: :uzi:---> :icon16: :paypal ]

Glad to hear it, but nothing is free. At this point, I'd rather "waste" $50 than my time to run around and arrange getting the welding done for "nothing", which for most of us means hiring a welder to do the job. Can everyone duplicate the welding locations and technique used without having a shop or access to a skilled welder?

Besides, where is the comparison between your mod and stock in terms of deflections vs. sideways force on the pedal and the data including a stress analysis, yield strength and fatigue properties? Otherwise, quoting MM a few posts above, your evidence is "Also anecdotal." You often employ the same debating tactics that you deride when others employ them, not that I'm saying here that anecdotal evidence is entirely to be trusted. The value of such evidence depends on many factors that are hard to quantify. I believe your anecdote that welding worked for you. I also believe that the bracket worked for Silver8, and in both cases believe it because both of you seem to know something of what you're doing. However, I don't believe that because one technique worked, that the other is snake-oil. YMMV.

Where is the term "snake oil" derived from?

Just for the record, mine is both welded and bracketed.

Also, I suspect that MM has me on ignore since he never responds to me. I'm so disappointed! :tear:

Don can you post some pics of your welded assembly in this thread here: https://www.rx8club.com/race-roots-134/clutch-pedal-bracket-solutions-explanations-now-recall-194975/

Sure, I'll have to do it this evening. Kind a busy right now. :)