Let's try this
 

Why should they be different from everyone else? ;)

Thanks for keeping on everyone's butts and getting this through. 8 year warranty ain't a bad deal for something like this. And they have admitted to a failure rate.

Now I guess we wait for the TSB.

Ken

The 8s at seven stock should all put a sign in their window along the lines of "Will Mazda replace my clutch pedal brackets?"

Why? I wouldn't want them to do that.

then please tell me dear, if they are not structural and thus not under any load/stress... WHAT THE F*CK do you think makes those spots snap??

furthermore, lets say little yard gnomes are crawling under your feet and causing all this non-structural spot welds breaking nonsense...
then WHY THE F*CK when they fail does your clutch do all kinds of thing it is not supposed to do in terms of planes of movement?

have you EVER looked into this before, or was this the first time you had ever glanced at the issue(i hope so)?

AH, I am NOT defending Brettus, BUT, your anger is misdirected because IF you remembered Brettus has had his Clutch Bracket FAIL..(Right Hand Drive)

The Interesting thing is the Right Hand Drive bracket IS Different by Part Number, and as of about 8 months ago Brettus was the Only New Zealand/Australian who has an issue..this according to my Parts contact at Mazda Australia....

Look...I have not studied the LHD "epidemic" of these things wearing out, BUT, is it just age, and is a possibly when the Clutch mechanism (C-Plate and Pressure Plate) has/is also worn. Could it be that those who have also changed Clutch to aftermarket and or just plain "almost" worn out that this is transferring Pressure back to the Clutch Pedal Bracket..

In other words the cars Clutch is almost Stuffed...and or I am also not sure these 'self adjusting' Clutch Slave Cylinders are that great (for Clutches)...I prefer the Manual adjustable type that was used 20 years ago??.

thats all nice, except that mine, and many others started cracking LONG before it was aged and on the OE clutch parts.

and if it isnt a structural part as Brettus is saying(what im arguing), then it wouldnt matter what happened. if it isnt structural, something that is would have to break first to put the stress here

I have actually repaired this bracket myself so if you haven't done it or have not at least pulled the assembly out to look at it then you are just blowing smoke out of your arse . But even if you did look at it I don't expect you have the ability to analyse what is going on so I'm probably wasting my breath here .

The spot welds break because the bracket itself is not strong enough and it flexes about the two bolt holes .
Now IF that 0.5mm piece of 'paper' was actually triple the thickness that it is then I would agree that welding the bracket to it Would improve the its strength by preventing the flex around the area of the hole .
However it is not thick enough to make a difference so putting a good weld on it is not the way to ensure that the bracket wont break again .

BTW - I did have the ACT HD clutch installed so pedal pressure was about double what the stock pedal would see .

I recall when Mazda first started using the Self Adjusting Slave Cylinders around 20+ years ago we had issues of Hard Clutches, Premature wear on Clutch Plates, Hard to engage Gears (Hard Clutch Pedals), all transferring weight/strain to Clutch Pedal Bracket where you could see the bracket flexing (those days bulk heads etc were much stronger), anyway, I recall Mazda's changes of Slave Cylinders every year or so to overcome "issues"..sorry I cant remember the exact year or Mazda models....but I do remember seeing a few cars with techs showing me under dashes the Flexing of the Clutch Brackets.

i have pulled and welded more than one. of course the damn bracket flexes brett, its by design(not necessarily a smart one IMO, but nonetheless).

i give up on ya man, i'll leave you alone from now on

(and btw, lateral flex isnt the only problem/weakness to it, even on OE parts)

So that pressure would transfer to the area of "least resistance or strength"..possibly Clutch Bracket..;)

Well if all you did was repair the break and weld that plate to it then what you did was restore the bracket to it original condition (maybe 10% stronger if you were lucky )- should be good for another 50,000 miles or so .

But if you really think that welding a piece of sheet metal to it so thin that you could do origami on it with your bare hands , solves the issue , then more power to ya brother .

i agree more or less with the first statement. the lateral flex needs to be removed as well honestly.

and likewise, if you really think the spots arent structural in any way, run with it man. doesnt matter to me

Yep - it's the old story . someone believable says it's so and the rest follow like sheep .....

Looking at the bracket it's obvious that Brettus is correct. The spot weld only serves to hold the spacer/rod holder in place.
Attachment 255005

Here we see how the bracket was tearing from fatigue and the spot weld is still intact. The metal of the bracket is too thin to withstand the constant flexing under load. The flexing is concentrated near the two bolts that support the load.
http://silvereightstudio.com/misc/Br...t/DSC_1862.JPG

someone answer me this. what happens to your bracket if there were NO spot weld at all.

:icon_no2:

It would be harder to install... Sorry... Too flippant

I think the spot welds do make the assembly less prone to fatigue.

That said, this sort of welding job will improve the overall strength but will it be enough to compensate for the thin metal?
http://silvereightstudio.com/misc/Br...t/DSCF0857.JPG

Mazda should look at reinforcing the stress points near the bolts

The existing aftermarket reinforcement bracket may be overkill but it solidly transfers the load
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...onstrRX8/4.jpg
Disclaimer : I am not associated with any product or service offered here.

Darkbrew, no need to be tactful with me. I can assure you I won't be with most of the forum. :)

and if they hold no loads/stresses/not structural, how do you propose they do that? transportation of the forces in question via some kind of energy beam?


the entire fucking thing needs to go, but fabricating a replacement is beyond most people, and most shops that would be interested. so you're stuck with making what we have work.

Cool. :)
I'm "thinking out loud"
Looking at the location of the bolt and the spot weld it looks like they were trying to prevent a rocking motion in the metal of the bracket as it flexes under load.
I do not think that the metal near the bolt is rigid enough for this to be effective.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

You nailed it the first time ....

I'm not a mechanical engineer so I'll try to control my natural arrogance... :lol: :rolleyes:

Seriously, I think that they cut this one too close to the edge and ended up making a flimsy clutch bracket.

exactly, thank you. and what would happen to the pedal if, while being flexed these spots give way?


i agree with this as well... the whole damn design is faulty, but we dont have the option of replacing the whole assembly. welding can repair/add to the strength of the assembly as designed. brackets can stop the lateral motion, but not the stress that happens perpendicular to that. doing both is ideal as far as our options go

I am , so I have an excuse ....

^^really... wow

Well, I do not have a complete data set; I only have the pictures I borrowed.
It looks to me like metal fatigue in the bracket causes a tear near the bolt which then causes the spot weld to break.
So the main failure mode seems to be metal fatigue.

Welding will support the metal and reduce fatigue but additional support should be added near the bolt holes.
The aftermarket brace will also transfer the load away from the thin metal to prevent fatigue.

Electronics for me.
Semiconductor Test Engineering :eek:

Well not these days - would not be able to waste time on here if I was still doing that .

i wont argue this, but the metal doesnt always tear, mine didnt.

lets pretend that the sheetmetal used is not too thin(just like mazda did) and go back to this question directly...

....

Just wondering one thing...

Mazda thinks the problem arises from improper tightening sequence. I've seen enough stuff go bonkers from improper sequence, so that's plausiable.

So...does anyone know what the proper tightening sequence is for the bracket? And would it make sense to loosen the bolts and re-tighten in the right sequence?

Ken

I think your original question was better . What would happen if there were NO spot welds ?
You would see the same failure you do now but there would be no damage to the thin plate because there would be no join to it.

Pretty good intuitive stress analysis for a non mechanical engineer.

This is what I said a long ways back.

Never saw that but well said .

Plus the fact that it has been reported (in this very thread) that some people that just welded the plate to the bkt have had recurring failure should have put this BS to rest ages ago .

lol wow i just installed my new pedal last weeek.... fail.

ask Mazda to pay you back.

Thanks...
School of Reality plus good troubleshooting skills.

Quite right.

Next person to weld a bracket please add reinforcement where it's needed; at the bolt holes as pointed out on the previous page!

I got it from Mazdatrix though, what should i do

you have to proof that you installed it to your car.

Wait and see what Mazda will say.

Mazda or a person that works for mazda? Cause torque sequence only applies to things that require a lot of torque. Pedal brack is not one of them.

You tell the tech how the BEEP does he / she think there was 3 generations of Rx7 with no BEEPing clutch bracket problems and you don't want to hear any stupid talk about sequence. It's cheap materials & design period.

Mazda. And your belief is not correct. Problems can happen even with low torque items. When something with more than one screw is assembled, correct practice is generally to first put all the screws in, lightly snug them, then tighten. If you start by making one tight the others might not be aligned...hence distortion when they're tightened.

I can picture assembly line workers taking that kind of shortcut. Especially on a Monday morning or Friday afternoon.

Still Mazda's fault, of course.

Ken

if what you said is true. then the biggest issue would be Mazda itself.

Cuz people don't even look at their bracket (or touch them) until the thing snaps. guess who tighten those bolts up in the first place ?

And did I tell you guys that we're not the only one experiencing the same issue. Even people in the far east, RHD, Still getting the same issue. So its not just a LHD thing, its universal.

I agreed with 1/2 of what VashGS said, material is f-ing cheap, design was alright. if they would invest another what, maybe 10 bux extra for each bracket, just to make the metal a little bit thicker. would probably prolong the life of the thing by 2x.

Mazda is just full of shit on this one, they still gotta suck that 8 year/100K warranty up.

10cents more like ....

No matter what the reason, it's their fault. If it's really improper tightening, then they screwed up on training or assembly procedure. That's as big a part of making a product as the materials they use.

Anyway, I can now relax about the squeak in my clutch pedal...the one that goes away every time it's at the dealer. It has four more years to show that it's benign or to fail.

Ken

A clutch pedal should NEVER fail like these. Not in 10 years. Not in 20 years. Certainly not "en masse".
I never had a car in my life where this was an issue. Ever. Haven't even heard about one with any other car, but I may just be lucky (or ignorant).

Provided they will indeed make the announcement about this being covered under warranty. The way they are feeding BS to NHTSA and try to wiggle out of it belittling the issue is anything but reassuring about their stance of real willingness to "suck it up".

I think someone should try to report this to some media like Autoblog or edmunds. Just so that Mazda can't just act like "oh, I didn't know anything"

Hell, Im gonna email them right now.

Autoblog has reported on it before http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/06/r...da-rx-8-clutc/

They've reported on it before, but now it's more or less a recall according to the NHTSA. Big difference. I say more or less because they're just extending the warranty on it so it's not a true recall. That's a pretty cheap shit way to handle it though. It's the same pedal in each car so the chances of a pedal failing are always there. Considering the clutch pedal breaking completely disables the car it's bullshit that they'd just extend the warranty and hope you never come in. Most will only come in after it's too late, and after it's too late is when it becomes a huge safety concern.

My clutch pedal is in the beginning stages of failure as of earlier today. It's moving left and right and making some god awful noises when I push down on the clutch. I planned on just parking the car for a week before I did anything about it anyways so hopefully Mazda acts up while it's just sitting in the garage and I can get this done for free!

One little observation though. I wonder if Mazda isn't announcing anything yet because they don't have a replacement part to install on the car? If they install the same exact one the failure is likely to happen again after all.

Thats when they first "notice" that NHTSA opened a case on this issue.

Now they have the conclusion (sort of)

My dealer said...
 

...that my snapped clutch pedal was the first one he's seen. Guess everyone in Louisville must drive automatics :rant:

a lot of people thought "its normal" and replaced it elsewhere (come on, who wants to do it at dealership, they will probably charge you 400 bux for it, its a 10-15 minute job)

Thats why a lot of "service manager/Mazda themselves" said "first time seeing it/effecting 1% users only"

The shop I have my RX-8 worked on at actually commented on how he's replaced two broken clutch pedals on RX-8's before mine. He NEVER works on RX-8's. lol