Clutch Pedal SNAP OFF 8 Year Warranty-Recall ~~~
09-01-2010, 11:17 AM
#852
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Why should they be different from everyone else? 
Thanks for keeping on everyone's butts and getting this through. 8 year warranty ain't a bad deal for something like this. And they have admitted to a failure rate.
Now I guess we wait for the TSB.
Ken
Thanks for keeping on everyone's butts and getting this through. 8 year warranty ain't a bad deal for something like this. And they have admitted to a failure rate.
Now I guess we wait for the TSB.
Ken
09-01-2010, 02:32 PM
#855
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....the thin piece (where those welds are)at the bottom of the bkt. is not a structural part of the bracket . I would bet that the only functions it performs is to hold the actuation rod horizontal while the bracket is installed and to hold the bulkhead spacers the right distance apart for the bolts to go through.
It provides zero strength to the bracket itself - and that is why Mazda only spot welded it on in the first place .....
It provides zero strength to the bracket itself - and that is why Mazda only spot welded it on in the first place .....
furthermore, lets say little yard gnomes are crawling under your feet and causing all this non-structural spot welds breaking nonsense...
then WHY THE F*CK when they fail does your clutch do all kinds of thing it is not supposed to do in terms of planes of movement?
have you EVER looked into this before, or was this the first time you had ever glanced at the issue(i hope so)?
09-01-2010, 03:19 PM
#856
Super Moderator
then please tell me dear, if they are not structural and thus not under any load/stress... WHAT THE F*CK do you think makes those spots snap??
furthermore, lets say little yard gnomes are crawling under your feet and causing all this non-structural spot welds breaking nonsense...
then WHY THE F*CK when they fail does your clutch do all kinds of thing it is not supposed to do in terms of planes of movement?
have you EVER looked into this before, or was this the first time you had ever glanced at the issue(i hope so)?
furthermore, lets say little yard gnomes are crawling under your feet and causing all this non-structural spot welds breaking nonsense...
then WHY THE F*CK when they fail does your clutch do all kinds of thing it is not supposed to do in terms of planes of movement?
have you EVER looked into this before, or was this the first time you had ever glanced at the issue(i hope so)?
The Interesting thing is the Right Hand Drive bracket IS Different by Part Number, and as of about 8 months ago Brettus was the Only New Zealand/Australian who has an issue..this according to my Parts contact at Mazda Australia....
Look...I have not studied the LHD "epidemic" of these things wearing out, BUT, is it just age, and is a possibly when the Clutch mechanism (C-Plate and Pressure Plate) has/is also worn. Could it be that those who have also changed Clutch to aftermarket and or just plain "almost" worn out that this is transferring Pressure back to the Clutch Pedal Bracket..
In other words the cars Clutch is almost Stuffed...and or I am also not sure these 'self adjusting' Clutch Slave Cylinders are that great (for Clutches)...I prefer the Manual adjustable type that was used 20 years ago??.
Last edited by ASH8; 09-01-2010 at 03:24 PM.
09-01-2010, 03:25 PM
#857
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AH, I am NOT defending Brettus, BUT, your anger is misdirected because IF you remembered Brettus has had his Clutch Bracket FAIL..(Right Hand Drive)
The Interesting thing is the Right Hand Drive bracket IS Different by Part Number, and as of about 8 months ago Brettus was the Only New Zealand/Australian who has an issue..this according to my Parts contact at Mazda Australia....
Look...I have not studied the LHD "epidemic" of these things wearing out, BUT, it is at age, and is a possibly when the Clutch mechanism (C-Plate and Pressure Plate) has/is also worn. Could it be that those who have also changed Clutch to aftermarket and or just plain "almost" worn out that this is transferring Pressure back to the Clutch Pedal Bracket..
In other words the cars Clutch is almost Stuffed...and or I am also not sure these 'self adjusting' Clutch Slave Cylinders are that great...I prefer the Manual adjustable type that was used 20 years ago??.
The Interesting thing is the Right Hand Drive bracket IS Different by Part Number, and as of about 8 months ago Brettus was the Only New Zealand/Australian who has an issue..this according to my Parts contact at Mazda Australia....
Look...I have not studied the LHD "epidemic" of these things wearing out, BUT, it is at age, and is a possibly when the Clutch mechanism (C-Plate and Pressure Plate) has/is also worn. Could it be that those who have also changed Clutch to aftermarket and or just plain "almost" worn out that this is transferring Pressure back to the Clutch Pedal Bracket..
In other words the cars Clutch is almost Stuffed...and or I am also not sure these 'self adjusting' Clutch Slave Cylinders are that great...I prefer the Manual adjustable type that was used 20 years ago??.
thats all nice, except that mine, and many others started cracking LONG before it was aged and on the OE clutch parts.
and if it isnt a structural part as Brettus is saying(what im arguing), then it wouldnt matter what happened. if it isnt structural, something that is would have to break first to put the stress here
09-01-2010, 03:37 PM
#858
then please tell me dear, if they are not structural and thus not under any load/stress... WHAT THE F*CK do you think makes those spots snap??
furthermore, lets say little yard gnomes are crawling under your feet and causing all this non-structural spot welds breaking nonsense...
then WHY THE F*CK when they fail does your clutch do all kinds of thing it is not supposed to do in terms of planes of movement?
have you EVER looked into this before, or was this the first time you had ever glanced at the issue(i hope so)?
furthermore, lets say little yard gnomes are crawling under your feet and causing all this non-structural spot welds breaking nonsense...
then WHY THE F*CK when they fail does your clutch do all kinds of thing it is not supposed to do in terms of planes of movement?
have you EVER looked into this before, or was this the first time you had ever glanced at the issue(i hope so)?
The spot welds break because the bracket itself is not strong enough and it flexes about the two bolt holes .
Now IF that 0.5mm piece of 'paper' was actually triple the thickness that it is then I would agree that welding the bracket to it Would improve the its strength by preventing the flex around the area of the hole .
However it is not thick enough to make a difference so putting a good weld on it is not the way to ensure that the bracket wont break again .
09-01-2010, 03:42 PM
#860
Super Moderator
I recall when Mazda first started using the Self Adjusting Slave Cylinders around 20+ years ago we had issues of Hard Clutches, Premature wear on Clutch Plates, Hard to engage Gears (Hard Clutch Pedals), all transferring weight/strain to Clutch Pedal Bracket where you could see the bracket flexing (those days bulk heads etc were much stronger), anyway, I recall Mazda's changes of Slave Cylinders every year or so to overcome "issues"..sorry I cant remember the exact year or Mazda models....but I do remember seeing a few cars with techs showing me under dashes the Flexing of the Clutch Brackets.
09-01-2010, 03:43 PM
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I have actually repaired this bracket myself so if you haven't done it or have not at least pulled the assembly out to look at it then you are just blowing smoke out of your **** . But even if you did look at it I don't expect you have the ability to analyse what is going on so I'm probably wasting my breath here .
The spot welds break because the bracket itself is not strong enough and it flexes about the two bolt holes .
Now IF that 0.5mm piece of 'paper' was actually triple the thickness that it is then I would agree that welding the bracket to it Would improve the its strength by preventing the flex around the area of the hole .
However it is not thick enough to make a difference so putting a good weld on it is not the way to ensure that the bracket wont break again .
The spot welds break because the bracket itself is not strong enough and it flexes about the two bolt holes .
Now IF that 0.5mm piece of 'paper' was actually triple the thickness that it is then I would agree that welding the bracket to it Would improve the its strength by preventing the flex around the area of the hole .
However it is not thick enough to make a difference so putting a good weld on it is not the way to ensure that the bracket wont break again .
i give up on ya man, i'll leave you alone from now on
(and btw, lateral flex isnt the only problem/weakness to it, even on OE parts)
Last edited by paulmasoner; 09-01-2010 at 03:47 PM.
09-01-2010, 03:45 PM
#862
Super Moderator
09-01-2010, 04:07 PM
#863
i have pulled and welded more than one. of course the damn bracket flexes brett, its by design(not necessarily a smart one IMO, but nonetheless).
i give up on ya man, i'll leave you alone from now on
(and btw, lateral flex isnt the only problem/weakness to it, even on OE parts)
i give up on ya man, i'll leave you alone from now on
(and btw, lateral flex isnt the only problem/weakness to it, even on OE parts)
But if you really think that welding a piece of sheet metal to it so thin that you could do origami on it with your bare hands , solves the issue , then more power to ya brother .
09-01-2010, 04:11 PM
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i agree more or less with the first statement. the lateral flex needs to be removed as well honestly.
and likewise, if you really think the spots arent structural in any way, run with it man. doesnt matter to me
and likewise, if you really think the spots arent structural in any way, run with it man. doesnt matter to me
09-01-2010, 04:14 PM
#866
Extraordinary Engineering
Heh . Only just saw this .
While I don't disagree that the welds you pointed out were not good . What you and many others don't seem to realise is that the thin piece (where those welds are)at the bottom of the bkt. is not a structural part of the bracket . I would bet that the only functions it performs is to hold the actuation rod horizontal while the bracket is installed and to hold the bulkhead spacers the right distance apart for the bolts to go through. It provides zero strength to the bracket itself - and that is why Mazda only spot welded it on in the first place .....
While I don't disagree that the welds you pointed out were not good . What you and many others don't seem to realise is that the thin piece (where those welds are)at the bottom of the bkt. is not a structural part of the bracket . I would bet that the only functions it performs is to hold the actuation rod horizontal while the bracket is installed and to hold the bulkhead spacers the right distance apart for the bolts to go through. It provides zero strength to the bracket itself - and that is why Mazda only spot welded it on in the first place .....
Here we see how the bracket was tearing from fatigue and the spot weld is still intact. The metal of the bracket is too thin to withstand the constant flexing under load. The flexing is concentrated near the two bolts that support the load.
Last edited by DarkBrew; 09-01-2010 at 04:16 PM.
09-01-2010, 04:20 PM
#868
Extraordinary Engineering
I think the spot welds do make the assembly less prone to fatigue.
That said, this sort of welding job will improve the overall strength but will it be enough to compensate for the thin metal?
Mazda should look at reinforcing the stress points near the bolts
The existing aftermarket reinforcement bracket may be overkill but it solidly transfers the load
Disclaimer : I am not associated with any product or service offered here.
Last edited by DarkBrew; 09-01-2010 at 04:32 PM.
09-01-2010, 04:32 PM
#869
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Darkbrew, no need to be tactful with me. I can assure you I won't be with most of the forum. 
and if they hold no loads/stresses/not structural, how do you propose they do that? transportation of the forces in question via some kind of energy beam?
the entire ******* thing needs to go, but fabricating a replacement is beyond most people, and most shops that would be interested. so you're stuck with making what we have work.
I think the spot welds do make the assembly less prone to fatigue.
the entire ******* thing needs to go, but fabricating a replacement is beyond most people, and most shops that would be interested. so you're stuck with making what we have work.
Last edited by paulmasoner; 09-01-2010 at 04:34 PM.
09-01-2010, 04:37 PM
#870
Extraordinary Engineering
Looking at the location of the bolt and the spot weld it looks like they were trying to prevent a rocking motion in the metal of the bracket as it flexes under load.
I do not think that the metal near the bolt is rigid enough for this to be effective.
09-01-2010, 04:44 PM
#872
Extraordinary Engineering
09-01-2010, 04:45 PM
#873
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i agree with this as well... the whole damn design is faulty, but we dont have the option of replacing the whole assembly. welding can repair/add to the strength of the assembly as designed. brackets can stop the lateral motion, but not the stress that happens perpendicular to that. doing both is ideal as far as our options go