Dealer service manager blew my engine
06-27-2017 | 08:13 PM
#1
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From: Canada
Dealer service manager blew my engine
Second update:
Court case won ⚖️ �� without a lawyer obviously.
I successfully sued the Regina Mazda service department manager who is responsible for blowing up the engine on our family RX-8. I also successfully sued the president of Regina Mazda, Regina Mazda and the company that owns Regina Mazda.
I did not have a lawyer so it was obvious that I would win.
Update:
I've issued demand letters separately to to the dealership and Mazda Canada and pursuing small claims court. Very lengthy process. Mazda Canada replied with a wonderfully legalese letter "it's not our problem so don't come after us cuz we'll sue you to death with our million dollar lawyers". However, in the letter they point out that the dealership and service manager should have initially done a compression test. It's like Mazda Canada washed their hands of it and pointed directly to the dealership as responsible. I am very optimistic of a positive outcome for me now because of that letter from Mazda Canada and don't feel like I have to involve Mazda Japan nor Kenichi Yamamoto (he died 2 months ago Dec 2017).
Initial post:
Dealer service manager blew my engine while investigating a noise I’d brought the car in to have checked. (2007 RX-8 GT 150,000 KM)
This is in Regina Saskatchewan Canada. I’d like comments from readers.
20170626 I drove 60 KM without problems to the dealer At 10:00 AM I picked up the manager of the dealer’s service department. I drove us out of the city about 10 KM to be free of traffic. The noise I wanted checked was a kind choking sound and power reduction like lack of fuel or air. This only happens when using power across the RPM range. I accelerated through first, second and third gears. The chattering was present so I let of the peddle when it started (around 7-8000 RPM).
The service manager was eager to get in and duplicate the issue so we swapped places. He floored it to max RPMs through first to forth gears and the engine was chocking worse and worse till it died, engine light came on and there was 5 or 6 loud backfires as we rolled to a stop.
He tried starting and the engine turned freely when trying to start but there was no resistance, the engine and belt turned freely with the starter.
We were out in the country so he had to call a tow truck and a ride. During the wait the service manager speculated it might be the converter in the exhaust is plugged. Or the engine could be blown. He would have to check it back at the garage the next day.
20170627 3:30 PM The Mazda dealer service manager called and said they had done a compression test and the engine is blown. He advised not getting a used engine because it could be just as bad as the one that just blew. He said new replacement cost is just under $7000. The current bill I have with them right now is $130 for doing the compression test. He either forgot or absorbed the cost of trailering the car back to the dealership. I said I didn't know what to do right now as it was a big shock and I'll be in touch in a few days.
Court case won ⚖️ �� without a lawyer obviously.
I successfully sued the Regina Mazda service department manager who is responsible for blowing up the engine on our family RX-8. I also successfully sued the president of Regina Mazda, Regina Mazda and the company that owns Regina Mazda.
I did not have a lawyer so it was obvious that I would win.
Update:
I've issued demand letters separately to to the dealership and Mazda Canada and pursuing small claims court. Very lengthy process. Mazda Canada replied with a wonderfully legalese letter "it's not our problem so don't come after us cuz we'll sue you to death with our million dollar lawyers". However, in the letter they point out that the dealership and service manager should have initially done a compression test. It's like Mazda Canada washed their hands of it and pointed directly to the dealership as responsible. I am very optimistic of a positive outcome for me now because of that letter from Mazda Canada and don't feel like I have to involve Mazda Japan nor Kenichi Yamamoto (he died 2 months ago Dec 2017).
Initial post:
Dealer service manager blew my engine while investigating a noise I’d brought the car in to have checked. (2007 RX-8 GT 150,000 KM)
This is in Regina Saskatchewan Canada. I’d like comments from readers.
20170626 I drove 60 KM without problems to the dealer At 10:00 AM I picked up the manager of the dealer’s service department. I drove us out of the city about 10 KM to be free of traffic. The noise I wanted checked was a kind choking sound and power reduction like lack of fuel or air. This only happens when using power across the RPM range. I accelerated through first, second and third gears. The chattering was present so I let of the peddle when it started (around 7-8000 RPM).
The service manager was eager to get in and duplicate the issue so we swapped places. He floored it to max RPMs through first to forth gears and the engine was chocking worse and worse till it died, engine light came on and there was 5 or 6 loud backfires as we rolled to a stop.
He tried starting and the engine turned freely when trying to start but there was no resistance, the engine and belt turned freely with the starter.
We were out in the country so he had to call a tow truck and a ride. During the wait the service manager speculated it might be the converter in the exhaust is plugged. Or the engine could be blown. He would have to check it back at the garage the next day.
20170627 3:30 PM The Mazda dealer service manager called and said they had done a compression test and the engine is blown. He advised not getting a used engine because it could be just as bad as the one that just blew. He said new replacement cost is just under $7000. The current bill I have with them right now is $130 for doing the compression test. He either forgot or absorbed the cost of trailering the car back to the dealership. I said I didn't know what to do right now as it was a big shock and I'll be in touch in a few days.
Last edited by dgd; 09-23-2018 at 06:23 PM. Reason: Update
06-27-2017 | 09:53 PM
#3
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From: Austin, TX
I wouldn't be surprised whatsoever if he did this on purpose. This is the equivalent of a doctor checking for a broken bone by smacking the **** out of the affected area. Or an apple technician slamming your laptop against the counter because you complained about some hard drive noise.
You brought it in, stated there was an issue, they did not want to deal with it. You then demonstrated the issue to the service manager and at that point it should have been apparent enough that it needed to be looked at. Instead, he jumps in the front seat and floors it to 100 mph until it blows? I can smell the bullshit from here.
You paid for a compression test, get the compression numbers. Don't just take their word for it. Especially when they broke it to begin with.
You brought it in, stated there was an issue, they did not want to deal with it. You then demonstrated the issue to the service manager and at that point it should have been apparent enough that it needed to be looked at. Instead, he jumps in the front seat and floors it to 100 mph until it blows? I can smell the bullshit from here.
You paid for a compression test, get the compression numbers. Don't just take their word for it. Especially when they broke it to begin with.
Last edited by Reoze; 06-27-2017 at 09:55 PM.
06-27-2017 | 09:56 PM
#4
I think the key here is he kept pushing when the engine was clearly showing signs of trouble. I'm sure it's not his first RX8, he should have known the signs without abusing the engine.
Aside from that, I'd say you're on shaky ground, it may sound like he just did what you did a few minutes before. The fact that it failed for him and not you could just be bad timing.
Thing is, his diagnosis might be correct, it sounds consistent with cat clogging. He's also right about used engines, unless you find one with some kind of proof of compression results.
Aside from that, I'd say you're on shaky ground, it may sound like he just did what you did a few minutes before. The fact that it failed for him and not you could just be bad timing.
Thing is, his diagnosis might be correct, it sounds consistent with cat clogging. He's also right about used engines, unless you find one with some kind of proof of compression results.
06-27-2017 | 10:22 PM
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From: Austin, TX
He's right about used engines, he's completely wrong about the best route being a "new" engine from Mazda for 7 grand. Beyond the fact that they're not new, you could get an off the shelf engine from pettit with brand new rotors and housings for $5500. Which would probably work quite a bit better than a mazda reman. I would opt to have mine rebuilt rather than go with either of those options personally.
Or do what a vast majority of owners did. Sell it as a parts car and buy a civic.
Or do what a vast majority of owners did. Sell it as a parts car and buy a civic.
06-28-2017 | 12:11 AM
#6
He's right about used engines, he's completely wrong about the best route being a "new" engine from Mazda for 7 grand. Beyond the fact that they're not new, you could get an off the shelf engine from pettit with brand new rotors and housings for $5500. Which would probably work quite a bit better than a mazda reman. I would opt to have mine rebuilt rather than go with either of those options personally.
Or do what a vast majority of owners did. Sell it as a parts car and buy a civic.
Or do what a vast majority of owners did. Sell it as a parts car and buy a civic.
06-28-2017 | 10:44 AM
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From: Canada
Yes its CAD$7000.
As well I just now remembered that the service manager also said "If the car were one year newer there might be something they or Mazda could do."
As well I just now remembered that the service manager also said "If the car were one year newer there might be something they or Mazda could do."
Last edited by dgd; 06-29-2017 at 09:29 AM.
06-28-2017 | 02:32 PM
#12
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Did you tell him to back off or take it easy?
Honestly, I think there is a certain amount of culpability on his part but not as much as you might think. He probably should have recognized the issue before the engine blew but there was definitely already a problem. Maybe your engine would have been okay if they'd caught the underlying issue but it's also possible that enough damage had already been done.
I would see if you can work out a deal with them. $7k CAD isn't a bad price for a remanufactured engine including installation. I would see if you can get them to comp some of the labor for it. Getting them down to $6k CAD out the door would be a pretty good deal.
That said, if you have any mechanical ability you can get a better engine for the same price by pulling it yourself and shipping it off to a good rebuilder.
Honestly, I think there is a certain amount of culpability on his part but not as much as you might think. He probably should have recognized the issue before the engine blew but there was definitely already a problem. Maybe your engine would have been okay if they'd caught the underlying issue but it's also possible that enough damage had already been done.
I would see if you can work out a deal with them. $7k CAD isn't a bad price for a remanufactured engine including installation. I would see if you can get them to comp some of the labor for it. Getting them down to $6k CAD out the door would be a pretty good deal.
That said, if you have any mechanical ability you can get a better engine for the same price by pulling it yourself and shipping it off to a good rebuilder.
06-28-2017 | 07:03 PM
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From: Austin, TX
So, 2 3/4 hot dogs?
The manager is absolutely 100% supposed to know better in a situation like this. I still maintain that there was probably a fair bit of intent here. Either way, he probably figured the engine was likely going out. By pushing it until it broke it made the diagnosis that much easier. The manager could have come up with a real diagnosis and the answer would have been the same "replace the engine".
Did you tell him to back off or take it easy?
Last edited by Reoze; 06-28-2017 at 07:08 PM.
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dgd (06-29-2017)
06-29-2017 | 09:21 AM
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06-29-2017 | 09:28 AM
#17
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06-29-2017 | 09:40 AM
#18
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Did you tell him to back off or take it easy?
Honestly, I think there is a certain amount of culpability on his part but not as much as you might think. He probably should have recognized the issue before the engine blew but there was definitely already a problem. Maybe your engine would have been okay if they'd caught the underlying issue but it's also possible that enough damage had already been done.
I would see if you can work out a deal with them. $7k CAD isn't a bad price for a remanufactured engine including installation. I would see if you can get them to comp some of the labor for it. Getting them down to $6k CAD out the door would be a pretty good deal.
That said, if you have any mechanical ability you can get a better engine for the same price by pulling it yourself and shipping it off to a good rebuilder.
Honestly, I think there is a certain amount of culpability on his part but not as much as you might think. He probably should have recognized the issue before the engine blew but there was definitely already a problem. Maybe your engine would have been okay if they'd caught the underlying issue but it's also possible that enough damage had already been done.
I would see if you can work out a deal with them. $7k CAD isn't a bad price for a remanufactured engine including installation. I would see if you can get them to comp some of the labor for it. Getting them down to $6k CAD out the door would be a pretty good deal.
That said, if you have any mechanical ability you can get a better engine for the same price by pulling it yourself and shipping it off to a good rebuilder.
I have no mechanical ability. I got ballpark quote from Adam (RX-7 Specialties LTD. Calgary) to do an entire replacement with performance improvement work done on the intake, engine and exhaust systems. (403) 246-6980 adam@rotaryengine.com if I had the $ that would be my route. I've wanted Adam to supe up my RX-8 ever since I checked into and consulted with him. This guy lives to make RX-7 & 8s happy cars.
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dgd (06-29-2017)
06-29-2017 | 10:25 AM
#20
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sounded like a clogged cat up until it wont start anymore. I don't know if blocked air flow can cause low compression numbers. remover the mid pipe and cat and turn the key with a fully charged battery and maybe a jump box, sometimes a LOW compression engine will run if it can get up to a good starting speed. If the dealer said theirs NO compression then doubt that will help.
02-16-2018 | 01:27 PM
#21
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Hello, all! I have a slightly similar problem on my hands. I bought an o4' Rx-8 from owner, put 5oo+ miles on it with no known issues other than a heatshield rattle. I get the Carfax and see that none if the recalls were taken care of, so, I called my local Mazda dealership and took it in for them to repair. Upon replacing the recalled parts, they showed me that my front brake rotors were too small. The next day, they inform me that there's a rather shoddy rubber hose someone used as a fuel line and it should be replaced. I agreed and allowed them to replace it with the proper parts. Admittedly, it took me about 3-4 weeks to work up the cash to pay them. Upon payment, they went to start my car for me and wound up flooding my engine. Until they could get a specialist in to de-flood it, they gave me a loaner car for the rest of the day and told me not to worry about replacing any gas etc., and to bring it back the next day when contacted to get my car. On the morning of the third day with the loaner, I was finally contacted. They told me that my car was dead in the water. The battery was presumably dead from sitting in the cold for so long without being started regularly. I was later notified that they placed a brand new battery inside and it didn't change a thing.
Now here is the wild part. They're attributing this catastrophic failure to there apparently being a ten-year-old tractor battery in my car, a clogged cat, and unspecified "many things that no one would have ever caught unless they had the car on a lift and had a poke around". I was then asked if I wanted to keep the car because the shell and almost everything else was in remarkable condition for an o4' that wasn't garage kept.
I've been told to pursue legal action because there's no reason that if I drove my car in for repairs, I would be unable to drive it out and that they are liable for anything that happens under their care and supervision.
What are your thoughts and advice?
Now here is the wild part. They're attributing this catastrophic failure to there apparently being a ten-year-old tractor battery in my car, a clogged cat, and unspecified "many things that no one would have ever caught unless they had the car on a lift and had a poke around". I was then asked if I wanted to keep the car because the shell and almost everything else was in remarkable condition for an o4' that wasn't garage kept.
I've been told to pursue legal action because there's no reason that if I drove my car in for repairs, I would be unable to drive it out and that they are liable for anything that happens under their care and supervision.
What are your thoughts and advice?
02-16-2018 | 07:40 PM
#22
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From: Markdale Ontario, Canada
Well, legal action sounds about right. Unless you asked or told them to poke and prod around your car, I don't see any reason they should have touched anything other than the recalls. This sounds incredibly sketchy, I'd recommend attempting to start the car in person, how do they even know the cat is clogged? What are these unlisted things wrong they didn't give you a list for? For what reason were they touching and checking your brakes? What size rotor was on it and what is the recommended? Like, I've worked in a shop and generally the rule is "Don't touch ANYTHING not directly related to the current job" because there is no reason why we should hold liability for anything we didn't need to.
Last edited by Motakai; 02-16-2018 at 07:43 PM.
02-16-2018 | 07:58 PM
#23
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From: BC, Canada
Hello, all! I have a slightly similar problem on my hands. I bought an o4' Rx-8 from owner, put 5oo+ miles on it with no known issues other than a heatshield rattle. I get the Carfax and see that none if the recalls were taken care of, so, I called my local Mazda dealership and took it in for them to repair. Upon replacing the recalled parts, they showed me that my front brake rotors were too small. The next day, they inform me that there's a rather shoddy rubber hose someone used as a fuel line and it should be replaced. I agreed and allowed them to replace it with the proper parts. Admittedly, it took me about 3-4 weeks to work up the cash to pay them. Upon payment, they went to start my car for me and wound up flooding my engine. Until they could get a specialist in to de-flood it, they gave me a loaner car for the rest of the day and told me not to worry about replacing any gas etc., and to bring it back the next day when contacted to get my car. On the morning of the third day with the loaner, I was finally contacted. They told me that my car was dead in the water. The battery was presumably dead from sitting in the cold for so long without being started regularly. I was later notified that they placed a brand new battery inside and it didn't change a thing.
Now here is the wild part. They're attributing this catastrophic failure to there apparently being a ten-year-old tractor battery in my car, a clogged cat, and unspecified "many things that no one would have ever caught unless they had the car on a lift and had a poke around". I was then asked if I wanted to keep the car because the shell and almost everything else was in remarkable condition for an o4' that wasn't garage kept.
I've been told to pursue legal action because there's no reason that if I drove my car in for repairs, I would be unable to drive it out and that they are liable for anything that happens under their care and supervision.
What are your thoughts and advice?
Now here is the wild part. They're attributing this catastrophic failure to there apparently being a ten-year-old tractor battery in my car, a clogged cat, and unspecified "many things that no one would have ever caught unless they had the car on a lift and had a poke around". I was then asked if I wanted to keep the car because the shell and almost everything else was in remarkable condition for an o4' that wasn't garage kept.
I've been told to pursue legal action because there's no reason that if I drove my car in for repairs, I would be unable to drive it out and that they are liable for anything that happens under their care and supervision.
What are your thoughts and advice?
The fuel line talk sounds like nonsense. Have them show you what the problem is, take a picture and ask for some opinions either here or from an indie mechanic
Same with the cat. Have them take it off and show you what's inside.
Is it a 04 base automatic? Those do come with smaller front brakes and smaller wheels(16" versus 18" on the MT/sport AT models) from the factory.
Things like this can get a bit complicated. When they failed to start the car, what did they say? How did you respond? Did you tell them/agree to fix the car through whatever means? If so, you won't get anywhere because they can just say that you gave them consent to do it.