ECU/PCM "flash" Info/questions
07-28-2004, 04:56 PM
#476
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PoLak Thanks, Next time I go in I will have my dealer update my car to M Flash. I also heard that there was a lack of oil being supplied through the metering pump, if this M Flash takes care of this , does that also mean the engine will consume more oil, and does anyone with the M Flash notice they are using more oil than before..
07-28-2004, 06:53 PM
#479
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by PoLaK
As far as where you will get the best mileage when i dynoed my car in 5th gear, the map in 5th gear is nearly identical to the map in 6th gear (M Flash) , this is what i found. Looking at the AFR your leanest spots are at 63mph, 83mph, and the leanest at 96. Do not drive 70-78 there is a big dip to rich here where you don't want to be.
For example just recently on my return trip from KD rotary i was using the northeast extension, and before anyone grills me for speeding again this road is considered lawless, and most do high 80's on it. I traveled 95-99 mph for a good 150miles and i hadn't even gotten to half a tank yet. When i tanked up i got 26mpg.
For example just recently on my return trip from KD rotary i was using the northeast extension, and before anyone grills me for speeding again this road is considered lawless, and most do high 80's on it. I traveled 95-99 mph for a good 150miles and i hadn't even gotten to half a tank yet. When i tanked up i got 26mpg.
First let me say, great thread. Even I understand it ( I think
).You mention the leanest spots above, I am assuming here you are talking about using 6th to achieve these speeds. If so, would there be a noticable difference doing 70-80 in 5th, as this would (possibly) equate the same RPM as 80-90 in 6th (4000-4500 RPM), and you said the maps are almost identical.
The reason I ask is that I generally drive to/from work on our motorways and they are 70 mph speed limits. I generally do between 70 and 80 in sixth and get poor mpg (21 Imperial). I might try it in 5th and see if there is difference.
Thanks Again
07-28-2004, 07:35 PM
#480
Originally Posted by moatz
PoLaK,
First let me say, great thread. Even I understand it ( I think ).
You mention the leanest spots above, I am assuming here you are talking about using 6th to achieve these speeds. If so, would there be a noticable difference doing 70-80 in 5th, as this would (possibly) equate the same RPM as 80-90 in 6th (4000-4500 RPM), and you said the maps are almost identical.
The reason I ask is that I generally drive to/from work on our motorways and they are 70 mph speed limits. I generally do between 70 and 80 in sixth and get poor mpg (21 Imperial). I might try it in 5th and see if there is difference.
Thanks Again
First let me say, great thread. Even I understand it ( I think
).You mention the leanest spots above, I am assuming here you are talking about using 6th to achieve these speeds. If so, would there be a noticable difference doing 70-80 in 5th, as this would (possibly) equate the same RPM as 80-90 in 6th (4000-4500 RPM), and you said the maps are almost identical.
The reason I ask is that I generally drive to/from work on our motorways and they are 70 mph speed limits. I generally do between 70 and 80 in sixth and get poor mpg (21 Imperial). I might try it in 5th and see if there is difference.
Thanks Again
5th Gear is 1:1 on this car, meaning that your flywheel is spinning at the same speed as your wheels. 6th Gear is OverDrive meaning the ratio is something like 1:.91 meaning your wheels are spinning faster then your enigine therefore you have better mileage.
If your getting 21mpg UK then i don't think your doing anything wrong thats like 24mph here not even close to poor.
07-28-2004, 10:32 PM
#481
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PoLak, thanks for your help, Can you or anyone tell me if after the M Flash are they consuming more oil, because one of the service notices said some cars may experience lack of oil thru the metering pump at higher RPMs, So I figured if the M Flash takes care of that they would have to increase oil lubrication at higher RPMS which I believe would have to use more oil...What do you think..
07-28-2004, 11:19 PM
#482
Rotary powered since 1988
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 385
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Polak,
Excellent explanation of the series of ECU flashes that Mazda has issued.
I'm not an engineer .... wonder if it would be possible to get MAFs that are on the lean end like yours to improve the performance of the 8s with a MAF at the other end of the spectrum? Would this work? Is there a simple test that could be done?
Keep up the good work!
Reno
Excellent explanation of the series of ECU flashes that Mazda has issued.
I'm not an engineer .... wonder if it would be possible to get MAFs that are on the lean end like yours to improve the performance of the 8s with a MAF at the other end of the spectrum? Would this work? Is there a simple test that could be done?
Keep up the good work!
Reno
07-28-2004, 11:55 PM
#483
I have no idea how the circuitry of a MAF works or if it is possible to add a series of resistors or somehting, all i know is A MAF is basically a copper wire heated by electrical current, and sits directly in the path of air being ingested by the intake. Combinations of engine rpm, throttle position, and road speed will vary the volume of air moving over the wire, and cool it proportionally
07-29-2004, 06:42 AM
#484
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by PoLaK
No you will never get better mileage traveling faster in a lower gear, then slower in a higher gear this is all due to gearing. Thats within reason 40mph in 6th will get worse mileage then 40mph in 5th becuase your bogging down the engine.
5th Gear is 1:1 on this car, meaning that your flywheel is spinning at the same speed as your wheels. 6th Gear is OverDrive meaning the ratio is something like 1:.91 meaning your wheels are spinning faster then your enigine therefore you have better mileage.
If your getting 21mpg UK then i don't think your doing anything wrong thats like 24mph here not even close to poor.
5th Gear is 1:1 on this car, meaning that your flywheel is spinning at the same speed as your wheels. 6th Gear is OverDrive meaning the ratio is something like 1:.91 meaning your wheels are spinning faster then your enigine therefore you have better mileage.
If your getting 21mpg UK then i don't think your doing anything wrong thats like 24mph here not even close to poor.
Thanks again,
BTW, 21 mpg Imperial is 17.4 US mpg. See this site ( http://www.tdiclub.com/misc/conversions.html) for a converter.
07-29-2004, 09:32 AM
#485
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Got my early-VIN RX-8 back from the shop yesterday, and after the "M" Flash I can really tell the car is much, much smoother. Idle is smoother, revs through 9k are smoother (with no hesitation at 6k), and shifts even seem smoother. In fact, everything was so much smoother that I initially thought the power had been tamed a bit. I was almost disspointed I had them flash it. But after 50 or 60 miles I turned the DCS off and blew out the cobwebs a bit - and now it seems like all the power is back, and maybe a bit more. All could be psychological, I guess - but at any rate, it doesn't hurt to get the "M" flash. 
07-29-2004, 11:09 AM
#486
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
M-Flashed
Hi all~
I just got my M flashed
it was done little quicker than i thought, made me wonder even they did it
despite the fact that my car was built in October of 03, my car had L flahed
i believe the dealer flashed it while it was sitting on the lot
anyways, the car feels little smoother or maybe i just feel that way
thanks for the info guys
I just got my M flashed
it was done little quicker than i thought, made me wonder even they did it
despite the fact that my car was built in October of 03, my car had L flahed
i believe the dealer flashed it while it was sitting on the lot
anyways, the car feels little smoother or maybe i just feel that way
thanks for the info guys
07-29-2004, 11:36 AM
#487
Originally Posted by moatz
PoLaK,
Thanks again,
BTW, 21 mpg Imperial is 17.4 US mpg. See this site ( http://www.tdiclub.com/misc/conversions.html) for a converter.
Thanks again,
BTW, 21 mpg Imperial is 17.4 US mpg. See this site ( http://www.tdiclub.com/misc/conversions.html) for a converter.
07-29-2004, 11:53 PM
#488
Ask me! I might...
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 30° 0'2.66"N 90° 9'7.46"W
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Got my 8 flashed to "M" today. They had told me before that the car did not need it. This time, I brought the TSB with me and made them check it out while i was standing there.
After getting the car home, I hooked up an OBDII scanner to the car and querried the vehicle information. The scanner returned the following value for the PCM Calibration level:
N3H6EM0013H6020
Interestingly, the TSB for the PCM/ECU Flash upgrade http://www.finishlineperformance.com...01-022-04.html lists the software calibration file for the level "M" flash as:
Automatic Transmission: SW-N3H4EM001
Manual Transmission: SW-N3H6EM001
Therefore, I can confirm that the car has in fact been flashed to the "M" level revision.
FYI the OBDII Scanner I use is a Kal Equip Enhanced Professional Scan Tool Model KM9640 B.
You need the "B" version of the tool to interface to the CAN network on the car. The tool costs about $800.00.
Hope that helps!
After getting the car home, I hooked up an OBDII scanner to the car and querried the vehicle information. The scanner returned the following value for the PCM Calibration level:
N3H6EM0013H6020
Interestingly, the TSB for the PCM/ECU Flash upgrade http://www.finishlineperformance.com...01-022-04.html lists the software calibration file for the level "M" flash as:
Automatic Transmission: SW-N3H4EM001
Manual Transmission: SW-N3H6EM001
Therefore, I can confirm that the car has in fact been flashed to the "M" level revision.
FYI the OBDII Scanner I use is a Kal Equip Enhanced Professional Scan Tool Model KM9640 B.
You need the "B" version of the tool to interface to the CAN network on the car. The tool costs about $800.00.
Hope that helps!
07-31-2004, 09:03 PM
#490
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: DC Metro Area, USA
Posts: 1,554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jdunsh
loco, that link was helpful, I suggest all 8 owners read at least the first and last page of it.
What link might you be referring to? rx8cited
08-01-2004, 04:10 PM
#491
Power!!
Nice Post...
Nice Post Polak. I just got this month's RX Tuner and The articles you wrote on Canzoomer are great. Very well written. Now I'm officially famous too!
Last edited by shaunv74; 08-01-2004 at 05:02 PM.
08-01-2004, 06:22 PM
#493
Administrator
hey mark nice thread. couple of questions though when you say
you just said that no motor in any country is running 247hp and then said if we wanted to we just need to swap pcms with the jspec mazdaspeed. which statement is correct? also do you have this part number? and do you think it would cause problems since(among other things) it would be looking for a climate control system that isn't there and the security system is different?
This MAF sensor variance also partly explains why you have such widely varying dyno results, 160-190whp.
Those that dyno at 160 are in the way below average range and if they should decided to equip CZ Stage 1 then with some quick custom tuning they could easily gain the 20-30hp that the cars running 180's-190s already have.
shouldn't someone verify the low voltage first? i mean they very well could have low numbers from the dyno because its a mustang dyno instead of a dynojet. or simply because the pcm shut their run down.
Originally Posted by PoLaK
The simple fact is that no motor is in any country is running 247hp.
However, the J-spec Rx-8's are running a significantly more horsepower then our cars.
I have it on good authority that on an engine dyno an A-spec car with M flash will make between 219-222CrankHP. A J-spec about 10Hp more then that.
There is a possibility of extracting 247Hp out of the engine, but your car will not pass EPA2 emissions (which are not pending in Japan)
If you decided to do that, all that would be necessary would be ordering the ECU from the J-Spec Mazdaspeed Rx8. Thats right kiddies, the MS 8 is running a different Ecu you can actually order it, and it has a different part number from the stock ECU.
However, the J-spec Rx-8's are running a significantly more horsepower then our cars.
I have it on good authority that on an engine dyno an A-spec car with M flash will make between 219-222CrankHP. A J-spec about 10Hp more then that.
There is a possibility of extracting 247Hp out of the engine, but your car will not pass EPA2 emissions (which are not pending in Japan)
If you decided to do that, all that would be necessary would be ordering the ECU from the J-Spec Mazdaspeed Rx8. Thats right kiddies, the MS 8 is running a different Ecu you can actually order it, and it has a different part number from the stock ECU.
Originally Posted by PoLaK
This MAF sensor variance also partly explains why you have such widely varying dyno results, 160-190whp.
Those that dyno at 160 are in the way below average range and if they should decided to equip CZ Stage 1 then with some quick custom tuning they could easily gain the 20-30hp that the cars running 180's-190s already have.
08-01-2004, 07:41 PM
#494
Registered
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,223
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by PoLaK
As far as where you will get the best mileage when i dynoed my car in 5th gear, the map in 5th gear is nearly identical to the map in 6th gear (M Flash) , this is what i found. Looking at the AFR your leanest spots are at 63mph, 83mph, and the leanest at 96. Do not drive 70-78 there is a big dip to rich here where you don't want to be.
How about the rpm range to avoid in top gear cruising? We were told in the past to avoid 3750 RPM because of the secondary injectors opening up. ie, with the M flash, what rpm range is now the richest?
08-01-2004, 09:07 PM
#495
Originally Posted by zoom44
hey mark nice thread. couple of questions though when you say you just said that no motor in any country is running 247hp and then said if we wanted to we just need to swap pcms with the jspec mazdaspeed. which statement is correct? also do you have this part number? and do you think it would cause problems since(among other things) it would be looking for a climate control system that isn't there and the security system is different?
Originally Posted by zoom44
shouldn't someone verify the low voltage first? i mean they very well could have low numbers from the dyno because its a mustang dyno instead of a dynojet. or simply because the pcm shut their run down.
Mustang low should be round 140, and high of 160-70.
If the PCM throws you into limp mode that will be nearly a 40hp loss, to make sure you have accurate results do more then 1 run I did 10+ in one day.
Besides actually buying either a Canzoomer Stage 1 or a CANscan there is no easy way to do that.
Btw low or high voltages extremes, high voltage=really lean, low voltage=really rich.
08-01-2004, 09:20 PM
#496
Originally Posted by beachdog
Are you saying don't drive 70-78mph in 6th or in 5th (as you dynoed in 5th)?
How about the rpm range to avoid in top gear cruising? We were told in the past to avoid 3750 RPM because of the secondary injectors opening up. ie, with the M flash, what rpm range is now the richest?
How about the rpm range to avoid in top gear cruising? We were told in the past to avoid 3750 RPM because of the secondary injectors opening up. ie, with the M flash, what rpm range is now the richest?
But you also have to consider dyno runs are done at 100% throttle you don't drive at that when you cruising on the highway so without me doing a dyno run at 63, 83, and 96mph at 30% throttle im just hypothesizing that the AFR is linear per rpm.
What im trying to say is that im guessing that since 4000rpms is leaner then 3000rpms at 100% throttle that at 30% throttle 4000rpms is still leaner.
Once i have a buddy of mine install a dyno near me I’ll do a couple "mileage runs".
Avoid bogging the engine so no 2500rpms in 6th (that’s 48mph).
Stay away from 3750. Stay away from above 5000rpm.
Now a little known fact is when you Tach says 4000rpms its really 3800rpms so your pretty close to 3750.
Yeah its the placebo effect i guess, or the instrumentation is just crappy, but you tach is 200rpms optimistic.
08-10-2004, 09:47 PM
#498
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Shreveport, Louisiana
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Got M flash, dunno what i HAD (purchaced 03' Christmas time).
...Flat out (and i don't drive enough to be an analysist , but my GOD compared to what it used to drive like...the ONLY description i have is that it drive like whipped Creme, not Soda water...can't make more sense than that, for short i RECOMMEND THIS TO EVERY RX-8 owner.
However the Ram Air (discussed in alsmot every forum) does cause a rough idle (installed AFTER i did the flash so that i could compare) and it is lound..almsot too loud and makes it feel less of whipped creme, but rather sour milk...
...Flat out (and i don't drive enough to be an analysist , but my GOD compared to what it used to drive like...the ONLY description i have is that it drive like whipped Creme, not Soda water...can't make more sense than that, for short i RECOMMEND THIS TO EVERY RX-8 owner.
However the Ram Air (discussed in alsmot every forum) does cause a rough idle (installed AFTER i did the flash so that i could compare) and it is lound..almsot too loud and makes it feel less of whipped creme, but rather sour milk...
08-12-2004, 09:48 AM
#499
funk junky
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: So.Flo.
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Polak,
I have a friend that is stationed in Okinawa. I am figuring it would be pretty easy for him to get a J-Spec ECU. He wouldn't need anything special like proof that he owns an RX-8 or anything right? I am thinking he could just go through an English-fluent vendor and send me the part via mail.
Another question (and this pertains to what someone said earlier, and I do not believe I caught the answer) is what else should/could I need along with the JSMS ECU. I don't want the visual on my radio to read in Japanese or anything. LOL. Although if thats all that happened, I might not mind.
Anyhoo, thanks for listening. I am looking forward to all the more input anyone can offer.
Nate
I have a friend that is stationed in Okinawa. I am figuring it would be pretty easy for him to get a J-Spec ECU. He wouldn't need anything special like proof that he owns an RX-8 or anything right? I am thinking he could just go through an English-fluent vendor and send me the part via mail.
Another question (and this pertains to what someone said earlier, and I do not believe I caught the answer) is what else should/could I need along with the JSMS ECU. I don't want the visual on my radio to read in Japanese or anything. LOL. Although if thats all that happened, I might not mind.
Anyhoo, thanks for listening. I am looking forward to all the more input anyone can offer.
Nate
08-12-2004, 11:42 AM
#500
Originally Posted by nite crawler
Hey Polak,
I have a friend that is stationed in Okinawa. I am figuring it would be pretty easy for him to get a J-Spec ECU. He wouldn't need anything special like proof that he owns an RX-8 or anything right? I am thinking he could just go through an English-fluent vendor and send me the part via mail.
Another question (and this pertains to what someone said earlier, and I do not believe I caught the answer) is what else should/could I need along with the JSMS ECU. I don't want the visual on my radio to read in Japanese or anything. LOL. Although if thats all that happened, I might not mind.
Anyhoo, thanks for listening. I am looking forward to all the more input anyone can offer.
Nate
I have a friend that is stationed in Okinawa. I am figuring it would be pretty easy for him to get a J-Spec ECU. He wouldn't need anything special like proof that he owns an RX-8 or anything right? I am thinking he could just go through an English-fluent vendor and send me the part via mail.
Another question (and this pertains to what someone said earlier, and I do not believe I caught the answer) is what else should/could I need along with the JSMS ECU. I don't want the visual on my radio to read in Japanese or anything. LOL. Although if thats all that happened, I might not mind.
Anyhoo, thanks for listening. I am looking forward to all the more input anyone can offer.
Nate
If your going to get a J-Spec ECU get the MazdaSpeed J-Spec ECU (if you want it I’ll find the part number.) Neither will pass emission but the MS ecu will give you more power.
Far as what will happen you'll need to do is reprogram your keys i suggest doing one key for the J-Spec ECU and the valet Key as well.
But leave one key programmed for your old ECU so that you can swap to it quickly for when you have to have emissions done or dealer service.
Far as the extent of things that may happen no one will know till someone tries, someone else suggested Japanese characters on the dash but then again what English words do we have on the dash? "CD1"?.