IZoomZoomI

read carefully he never said anyone equipped with j flash would lose hp. Generally if im not mistaken cars that run more rich (j-flash) are less in hp figures. Don't panic the m flash IS a good thing.

breezy_rx8

The simple fact is that no motor is in any country is running 247hp.
However, the J-spec Rx-8's are running a significantly more horsepower then our cars. I have it on good authority that on an engine dyno an A-spec car with M flash will make between 219-222CrankHP. A J-spec about 10Hp more then that.

I think I also someone also mentioned loosing 17HP after flashing the J to M. If a richer AFR produces more power by reducing the amount of fuel in the mixture, naturally wouldn't reducing fuel decrease the power / improve gas mileage. That would lead me to believe that although J has the most power, it is also the biggest gas hog.

A lot of people saying they are getting leass head snap and more gradual smoother acceleration. This tells me the car would be less responsive and weaker. Of course, I'm no mechanic.

breezy_rx8

I don't know where Polak got the info to start the thread but it seems to make sense. I know my 8 (one of the original J PCMs) is quite a gas hog. So it would seem to make sense that Mazda would want to reduce emissions and improve gas mileage with the newer revs of the flash.

Again I'm no mechanic, but with the limited research I've done on this, I see that generally there is more power with a rich AFR vs. a leaner AFR. Checkout:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question257.htm

and

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-injection5.htm

If this is true, then the "pig-rich" J spec 8s probably indeed have the most HP. Unfortunately, my dealer already flashed my J to M. Of course I will test drive it for a while, but he seemed to be against the idea of flashing it back saying it was some kind of tampering. But what he did say "we'll cross that bridge when we get there" does make sense. I know one thing for sure and that is that my 8 would still chirp out in 3rd gear, hopefully still will... One good test would be to meet up with a J spec owners and drag race with an M spec owner. See who wins. Of course to eliminate driver skill, we could have each other switch cars and do some 20 or so races to get good results... Anyone done this?

PoLaK

iTrader: (1)

O dear God please reread this thread b4 posting again......... and delete any of youe obsolete posts after you discover what you have said is way off...

And for clarification J-Spec is Japan-Spec not Jflash-spec.

breezy_rx8

Ok, that makes much more sense now. You should spell out Japan spec when referring to J Flash, as the two are so similar to one another.

However, I still see a lot of contradictory information in this and other threads on whether the J flash gives more power or less power than the M flash. I would like a mechanic or mechanical engineer to comment here on whether you get more power out of rich fuel to air ratio compared with lean fuel to air ratio. All the google searches I have done seem to tell me that the richer the fuel, the more the power... I really claim ignorance here, but I have read this LONG *** thread several times over and it still is not clear.

BTW, where did you get your information Polak? Word of Mouth, rumour, or can you refer me to some hard evidence please?

What about Canzoomer's stage 1, how does this modify the AFR ?

Thanks

PoLaK

iTrader: (1)

J-Spec is most defiantly part of the automotive dialect cannon please take note.
Where do you see contradictory info......? How does that article leave any questions as far as which flash makes more power....

Rich doesn't = more power at all... when you are at normal throttle position 30% or so cursing your AFR is 14.7:1 stoic, which is where fuel is combusted most efficiently. And as for when you are at WOT (wide open throttle) for the Rx-8 ideally you want to be a 13.4-13.6. You can't always be at 13.4 because your engine may knock or detonate... So you try to tune as close as possible to that within reason. M Flash brings the car closest to that AFR.

Far as questioning my knowledge, it was gathered by researching and if it’s published in RXtuner take it as fact. On top of that, articles like that are sent to engineers at Mazda for fact checking.

Please keep this thread on track, there are plenty of threads on what Canzoomer does, as well as thread of MAF variance and AFRs. Search button is in the navi bar on top.
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-aftermarket-performance-modifications-23/canzoomer-stage-1-rxtuner-article-37716/

breezy_rx8

I had read the previous string about JERCS having 17 less HP on the dyno after the flash upgrade:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...3&page=7&pp=15

But the major confusion what J-spec vs. J Flash. Not all of us are rotarheads here and it was real easy to confuse the two. That left me wondering why people were enthusuastic about getting the M flash when people were saying the J-spec was more HP. My bad.

Anyhow... I did get my car back today. There are no stickers anywhere by the driver door or under the hood to indicate they did anything. However the break pump test worked.

To clarify, for those who have had difficulty figuring out how to do the break test:
1. The vehicle needs to be off/motor not running
2. Turn the key forward so that the instrument panel comes on, radio, etc. All the way forward possible, but not starting the engine.
3. Now pump the breaks quickly 20 times (within 8 seconds they say).
4. You should see the oil gauge go from 0/L to the halfway point and back quickly.

There was also some conflicting information that people were saying the break test is to check for the L flash and others say it is to check for the M flash. I honestly never tried this before getting flashed, so I'm not sure if it worked before...

So as for the performance, well, I was pleasantly surprised. However, I should mention a few factors:
1. I never knew about the half-off/half-on traction control thing. So I obviously held the DCS button for 7 seconds until the slippery came on.
2. I put a fresh tank of 100 octane gas in.

But before the gas was put in, I noticed my car still had the power I remembered - it chirps all the way through 3rd gear! And it seems to peel out at a lower RPM now from a dead stop. But of course a lot of this could be in my mind. The good thing is I can't tell that the vehicle lost any power and it seems like it has more torque/umph.

B-Nez

The brake test started with version L. What I don't know for sure is if there is any distinction between L and M with regards to the brake test. I noticed after getting M today that the needle sweeps only halfway. I don't remember if L caused it sweep halfway or fully. I should have done one before I took it in today...

IZoomZoomI

halfway check behind the pcm compartment there should be a indication of what flash you are on. It is mandatory for every 8 to get the m flash highly improbable if you had anything other than that.

so back to the question of wheter the ms ecu flash would work. I've read that the ms version has a hi flow cat so I am assuming you would have to run a higher flowing cat too. Pardon my ignorance, but what type of modifications need to be done with the sdais or vfad to suit the new reprogrammed pcm or can this not be done?

B-Nez

Not sure if you were responding to me or someone else. I bought my car in July 2003, so I've had K, L, and now M. I suspect you were responding to the other poster, though.

Blu8

I test drove an 8 back around Oct/Nov '03. One of the things that surprized me was the little 'kick' that appeared at 7500 to redline, alnmost like a little turbo kick (OK, don't give me any *&%^^* about doing that to an un-broken-in car, she loved getting the factory grease blown out). This was a while ago and I didn't look at the build date or memorize the VIN so, who knows what flash it had.

Now that I've got one of my own (the sleek Blue Beauty, 6/04 build date) and it's time to rev up, now that break-in's over, I get near the top of the tach and... no kick.

I guess it's just the difference in mapping. Or maybe I haven't driven it hard enough to get the ECU to learn my technique.

Or maybe I just can't remember sh*&. I did remember enough about that test drive, however, to know after about 10 minutes behind the wheel of a 350Z in late 8/04 that I'd be ordering my new 8 the next day.

shebam

The "K Flash Kick" was in part a function of a prior DIP. The CZ flash for the K flash accentuated this, only partly filling in the dip but greatly enhancing the kick. The M Flash addressed the dip, leaving the top end feeling flat, but overall performance better than the K flash.

Mike Z

Need Advice!

I have silver 2004 RX-8 manufactured 1/2004 with a K flash. I have over 4,000 miles on it and have added a K&N Short Ram Induction, Magnacor plug wires, S&R High Flow Cat and Racing Beat Back Cat Exhaust. After all the work was done, the battery was totally disconnected for 3 hours and once connected, ran the car like a high performance sports car for about 150 miles to get the computer's KAM (Keep Alive Memory) to establish all the changes and my driving pattern. So far this has worked with the K flash. The care idles smooth at 800-825 and pulls well from about 4,800 rpms to redline and is smooth at low end.

Since, gas mileage is of no concern, just performance, my question to all of you who have had a M flash done with similar modifications like mine is was the M flash a benefit or not? I have a very cool dealer and the service manager who said it is my call whenever I am ready to do the M flash. As he put it, "if it runs fast and not broken, then don't fix it. Currently I can beat stock Mustang GT's, 350Z's, G-35's and hold my own with a S2000 etc.

So, if any of you can please reply to this post or email me at mjzrodlo@yahoo.com with your results and opinion, I would appericate it.

JeRKy 8 Owner

You sureyoure not just racing morons who dont know how to drivetheir cars?

Ellar

Looked into how much a dyno session would cost, Mike?

ayap888

I took my car to the dealer for the M Flash. It now drives smoother and the power increase is not jerky like before the M Flash calibration. The only thing is that the dealer did not put any stickers. That's strange. Even my wife felt the huge difference in the drive and handling due to the new flash. At first, she thought it was my driving

RX8-TX

Just an FYI. I have 18K miles on the car, and recently got it dyno'ed -image below. In regards to the dips found on the original cars (pre-L calibration), now with the M cal., the dips are still there. Funny thing is, my ultra-precise butt dyno hasn't detected any 'jump' like it used to be prior to the re-flash.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

I find myself in the same quandry as Mike. With a handful of mods I am able to trounce the same vehicles that he mentioned. With the nitrous on, it ain't even close. I still have the "L" flash and am somewhat hesitant about switching to the "M". I need to take my 8 in to the dealer for some warranty work so I may get the new flash and see how it goes.

Charles

RotaryNoob

I guess I might as well share my thoughts...

I've had the car for 7 days and put 800 miles on it (11/03 mfg. date). I had just started driving it hard and hitting 8.5k on the tach.

Today I got the latest flash and the drive from the dealer back to my office made me want to cry. I feel like it lost 20 HP. Maybe its all in my head and I don't have anything to back my claim (shouldve dyno'd but didn't read this entire thread first).

If there was a "flashback" to whatever I had before I would take it. My only hope is that the PCM needs to relearn my driving.

Mike Z

Charles did you have your 8 M flashed? I'm still reluctant to have mine done since my 8 runs fast & smooth. I just added Royal Purple 5w30 and what a improvement as well as I had it smog tested and it passed with flying colors.

If you do have the M flash done, let me know the results in power output, smoothness and if you are having any cel issues.

Thanks,

Mike Z

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

I have had the same trepidations as Rotary Noob. My 8 runs real strong and there are many people in my area who are shocked to find an RX-8 that is not as slow as they have heard. With the nitrous I want to keep the slightly-rich "L" flash as insurance against detonation. On the other hand, my mods do make for some lugging(?) issues at certain loads and rpm's. I may get the "M" just to check it out because I'll do the E-Manage thing next spring anyway. Right now I am getting 24 mpg, so I think most of the time the A/F maps are fairly correct. I also don't blow black smoke even with the cat removed. Decisions, decisions....

Charles

Rennwagen

Got the M flash. Never flooded, but wanted what is the most advanced version of the software.

Smothed out idle and midrainge alright. Feels better.

I'm keeping track of mileage and will let you know.

The side effect that I don't like is that since M Flash doesn't pump fuel into the engine for the first few seconds that the starter is turned, it takes a while longer for the engine to fire. It always does (knok wood), but it can be disconcerting.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

I discovered a minor vacuum leak where I installed my nitrous nozzle. I was messing around with the factory airbox and dislodged the nozzle. I have since repaired the problem and restored the great driveability of my current flash level.

Charles

RX8 JET

Got mine reflashed because of the recall (didn't know there was one until I got to the dealer) for some other service. The printout I got didn't identify it as an M flash, but does it still mean tht I got it? Dealer service guy looks like he just got into the position, so he was not very much help when I asked him...

Can someone chime in and let me know? I'm guessing yes.

snap-on

By now the dealer has the update they need to get you to the "M" flash.

This came out MONTHS ago.

They really should have alerted you to what they were doing to your car.