RotrDoc

I read the owner's manual diligently when I got my RX-8 two years ago, but didn't pick up on the flooding issue until it happened to me a couple months later. The warm-up/shut-down procedure is in the "Quick-Start" booklet not the big manual. I've never had a repeat since I started following the procedure described there (warm into the "operating range", then rev to 3000 for 10 seconds before switch-off).

Gargos

Sounds good to me. I had been looking through the Quick Tips but hadn't read it all yet. Figures.

msrecant

Don't feel too bad. I knew it was there and it still took me a while to find it again.

CJW

Well, I spoke to Karen at Mazda North America in California and asked her about the flooding issue and if the dealership was correct in telling me that they will no longer honor the warranty if the car comes in with the flooding issue again. According to her "since you have been informed of what to do do prevent flooding, they are correct." They will no longer honor the warranty.

Sure, I can follow the tips. But what happens when I, for some reason, do not or my wife uses the car? I shouldn't have to worry that the car will not start.

I have been following the 8 since it was the Evolv. I wanted one for a long time and waited patiently though the years. If I get rid of it, I am not using this as my excuse to justify me trading it in. I don't want to. But I am not happy with its reliability as well as Mazda's reluctance to offer good customer service on their products.

Shahraz

Well I found this site tonight when my 04 RX-8 would not start, yes i moved it into the garage not knowing that i should warm it up before i turn it off. Tried everything that I read on this site but to no avail so finally Mazda sent a flatbed and took my car away. This happened last year at this time, they towed it and next day called me to pick up the car. Nothing was put in my manual and neither was i told how to prevent it again. This is very frustrating and Mazda own website with the owners lounge has no info on it. www.mazda.ca as I am in Canada. Plus have been reading the mpg bits and i get only 300km on a 50litre tank!!! So I really need to talk to my Mazda service department. But this site is awesome, you guys know much more than the Mazda guys! Thanks.

Go48

The warning about shutting down the car cold is in the US owner's manual and in some of the other material that came with the new car. I assume the US manual is basically the same as the Canadian manual.

MEGAREDS

This is the policy I was very concerned would happen back in early '04. I think anyone concerned about this should ask Mazda NA to put their policy in writing, and I also don't think it is reasonable for any new buyer to consider the the RX-8 unless Mazda affirmatively promises to stand behind him if the car fails to start.

I have my letter (somewhere) -- so I am pretty sure that I will be covered if my car floods a second time. If I were you, however, CJW, I would do as I did and write Mazda NA a polite letter expressing your frustration at what the dealer and Karen told you, and ask them to state their policy in writing as to how they will handle your second flood, should it ever come.

ALSO, I recommend to anyone who floods... be sure to get a photo of your car as it is being loaded on the flatbed. Don't post it -- after doing so with my photo a while back, I've come to realize that that type of post is unnecessarily nasty to a car company that I really want to support -- but please be sure to put it aside in the event the forum members ever decide to petition Mazda NA to change its mind. Twenty or so of us with photos of our cars on a flatbed will make a nice statement if it ever has to come to that.

msrecant

Excellent point. It would be very bad publicity for Mazda that they have a car that can cost an owner $200-$400 for the simple mistake of backing the car out of the garage and turning it off. FD owners may accept this as normal, but most of the rest of the car buying public won't.

It is also odd that Mazda is returning to a hard-line on this issue based on the following:

- None of the verbiage related to shutting the engine down cold talks about or even directly implies that flooding or an inability to restart the car is a possible consequence. This is true of both the QuickTips and the "Engine Cranks - no start" TSB. I don't remember for sure but I don't believe the "product update" DVD indicates that consequence either. I do believe the the verbiage is intentionally vague to avoid the statement becoming a deterrent to sales.

- CJW received only verbal notification. If Mazda were going to press the point I would expect them to request that one sign a written acknowledgement of notice.

- It doesn't sound like CJW was even given a copy of the last page of the "Engine cranks - no start" TSB, which the TSB instructs the service department to do.

- Mazda does not provide the car owner any tools to deal with this issue other than requiring the owner to oversee the shutdown process every time the car is turned off. No "Don't turn off yet" warning light, no turbo-timer like delay, no easy way for the owner to restart a flooded car, etc.

- Basically this is a no-win issue for Mazda. The best thing they can do is what thay have been doing since mid-2004, which is to downplay/bury this issue as much as possible. Making it a controversy again doesn't help anyone.

Hence it is hard for Mazda to simply claim that "You have been warned!". Not that they won't do just that anyway. CJW, I agree with MEGAREDS that you should write Mazda USA requesting the policy in writing.

MEGAREDS

Because it would be bad business to do so, I don't think Mazda NA would ever tell its dealers formally to charge for a second or third deflood, unless the owner said something stupid like he flooded it deliberately. I don't doubt, however, that there are dealers that might try to charge a customer if the dealer believed the customer would not complain. It is possible that Mazda NA's service representatives are just saying more than they are authorized to say when asked about what Mazda's future policy with regard to second or third deflood repairs. That's why getting it in writing is important.

That being said, I also don't think we can reasonably hope Mazda will make a broad policy statement that it will pay for however many floods an owner has, for fear that it could end up being very expensive and something they want to back away from later. Again, it would be bad business. Their plan, as I see it, is to give every incentive to customers to take care in shutting down the car so repairs aren't necessary. Mazda would be making a huge mistake to push it so far as to appear to threaten towing or other charges against people whose new car has just left them stranded. I remember how angry I was, and if my dealer ever again suggested a charge for a deflood repair on my car while it is was under warranty, I would go absolutely Ape (You get the idea).

We should agree to support one another if a charge is threatened or made against any of us, complaining individually at first, then as a group, not getting ugly unless, after a reasonable period of time, Mazda makes it clear that its policy is to blame us for the flooding. At that point, we can explore our options, and I can think of several that would likely cost Mazda more than the cost of repairing the flooded cars of RX8club.com's forum members.

So... I really do hope CJW presses Mazda NA with a written request for a more formal response to what he has been told, so we can figure out if Mazda NA still wants to hold the high ground on the "flooding issue." I am almost sure they will respond to such a letter, and hopeful that it will be supportive, as my letter was, and then we'll know not to worry so much, for a while, anyway, about turning the key.

msrecant

Another instance where a dealer wants to charge for a de-flood.

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/introduction-first-post-first-problem-dealer-trying-screw-me-77511/

MEGAREDS

But ended up covering it under warranty...

UPDATE

Racer X-8

Yeah, PLUS the new battery AND starter. No charge. I want!

msrecant

I am concerned about the general issue of this "change in policy" showing up again. It's not a good trend. I liked it better when conventional wisdom with owners and dealers was that Mazda warranty covers floods.

The fact that so far Mazda ultimately backs down and covers the repair simply means they don't have the guts to enforce it ... yet.

rkostolni

There's also always the case where you accidently stall (it happens to all of us sometime) when trying to first take off after starting your car. The car stalls easier than normal when cold anyway, especially with the Greddy turbo kit running an emanage. Poof, flooded. I let my brother drive my car last week and this almost happened. He stalled, but luckily it didn't flood.

I would deflood it myself if I am in a place where I can get to some tools, but if I'm far from home or for someone who can't deflood it. I'd be pissed if they told me I had to pay $400 to fix my car because I stalled.

Racer X-8

Can it flood that quickly? Won't it re-start ok if you re-start immediately?

rx8daniel

Hi All (whoever is reading); long time no see here in the forum.
I believe I successfully flooded my car last night. Started in driveway, backed into garage, only had running about 2 minutes; forgot to do the 3000 for 10 seconds before shutting down. Guess I got careless after no flooding issues so far although I was mindful of the potential problem and let if run for about a minute (about 4 minutes not enough, I know).
Questions: I have searched the forum as I should - but I haven't been on for quite some time and the one poll alone has 69 pages now - so - 1) IS there a fairly reliable flooded state start resolution that I can do at home that has surfaced over the last two years? and 2) How many PCM revs have come out since I acquired "M" a good bit ago?
for those who are more recently new members of this wonderful forum, I was one of the pre-order group that posted a lot here back in the late 2002, early 2003 era when everything was so new and lots of speculation prevailed.
I now have about 33K ( haven't updated my sig lately either) and had been still getting 21MPG average until about the last two months in the Memphis area it's been in the upper 19 to very low 20 range.
While I'm asking questions:
the flood resolution - if it includes towing to a dealer - does it include getting a the stronger 600CA battery?
From what I've read today, my game plan at the time is to pop the hood, connect jumper cables to my van and while running try the pedal to the floor 10 seconds while cranking followed by cranking for up to 10 seconds off the throttle method. If it doesn't work, then my plan would involve calling the closest dealer in the morning to find out how much experience they have with replacing plugs/flooding resolution. Any other suggestions from those who have experienced this ( and I believe, from the poll, there are way too many of us here ).

msrecant

First, use the Mazda de-choke procedure. If that doesn't work, (I have not done this personally) STROKERCHARGED95GT posted the following procedure:

Go48

That's the routine recommended in the manual alright. Try it several times if it doesn't start on the first try. There are other more involved things you can do yourself if you would rather start it yourself, but a trip to the dealer is certainly the easiest option if the car is still under warranty. And you may get new plugs out of the deal that way. I don't know about the battery. Some dealers do it without question, others do not if it passes their tests.

You can ask to have the battery and starter replaced by the dealer, but they will likely prorate the battery if they give you a new one. One of the recommended replacement batteries is the Interstate MTP-35 with a cold cranking amp (CCA) rating of 640 (or maybe it's 660) which runs about $70 USD. Good luck.

RedSheDevil

the dechoking procedure has worked for me three times already.

im sure its listed here somewhere, but here it is again if anyone needs it:
~ Dechoking procedure from Mazda video
. 1 Hold accelerator and clutch to the floor
. 2 Crank engine (turn key) for 7 seconds
. 3 Release key, then accelerator pedal
. 4 Start engine
. 5 OK if smoke from exhaust
. 6 Don’t crank key for more than 10 seconds
. 7 Don’t race engine
. 8 Pedal to the floor prevents gas to the engine

rx8daniel

thanks for the responses
Unfortunately, it will NOT start. I removed the fuel pump relay for most of my 7 second cranking periods, then put it back in for the 'start engine'[as normal] cranking. It got to where it sounded like it might light up but never did. IF I had confidence in 1) my wife to push the car w/ our van and 2) getting the car back to our house if it didn't start - I'd do the push start thing - that always worked with the 1st gens I had.

RedSheDevil

^ couldja get a couple neighbors to help push start? just saw this done a few weeks ago ... i was amazed it works!

MEGAREDS

Hey Daniel. Sorry about the flood. Please snap a picture of the car being pulled onto the flatbed if you go that route, and be sure to ask that they send a flatbed, not a conventional tow truck. Also, post your dealer experience.

msrecant

At this point your plugs are probably fouled and there is still a bunch of fuel in the combustion chambers. If you get get high enough revs, long enough it might kick over (someone towed their 8 behing their SUV once). Otherwise someone needs clean the plugs, dry our the chambers, charge the battery and change the oil to get her running again. Probably best to have the dealer do it.

You want to push the dealer for:
- fix the flood
- latest PCM upgrade (part of fixing the flood)
- hotter spark plugs (part of fixing the flood)
- upgraded battery
- upgraded starter (they probably won't do this on a first flood)
- have all the above covered under warranty

Racer X-8

Oh man, I would NEVER push-start the car with another vehicle. Damage to the paint - or worse - to either or both vehicles needs to be expected if you try that. Expect that. RedSheDevil is right about finding some guy or guys to do the pushing.

Brice-RX8

why would anyone every consider pushing a vehicle with another, especially something as nice as the 8. That's just crazy. Hell have someone push it, I push mine on occasion out of the garage to wash it.