Racer X-8

Ah, but, this isn't battery failure, it's car design failure. That's why they should give you (and me) a battery that is neccessary to combat this flooding problem. It's not the battery that's the reason you should get a new battery, it's the system of the car that causes flooding, and the original weak battery is definitely one of the weak links.

RX8_GT

So true - the CCA of the original battery is part of the flooding. I had to re-charge my battery three times to get it de-flooded the second time it flooded - and once the first time. All cars have a degree of battery draw at all times - and the electronics / stereo are a draw during starting and inital warm-up.

All RX-8s should be upgraded IMHO ... and probably in the users' / future buyers ' opinion too.

msrecant

RX8_GT and Racer X-8,

Basically I agree with you both. This is a design flaw that should be fixed. FYI, all RX-8s built after 6/1/2004 have the upgraded battery. All RX-8s built after 12/1/2004 have the upgraded starter. The new plugs went into production starting 3/22/2005.

However, Mazda doesn't appear to agree with us and will only update pre 12/1/2004 vehicles at their discretion, which varies from dealer to dealer.

Racer X-8

Yeah, I certainly hope that MNAO doesn't start copping the feeling that they've been kind enough to us pre-order / first owner types, but enough is enough. Like we're just coming up with another gripe just to get another freebie from them, just trying to, you know, for the fun of trying, but we aint getting nothing for free this time. Somehow, those are the bad vibes I'm getting about this issue.

RX8_GT

My dealer has been very good to do the upgrades where I have had issues. But it's poor future planning to shortchange early buyers - the cost of plugs / starter / battery along with labour is probably less $250 to Mazda. The cost of not doing it is a ongoing problem which will 'de-flower' the RX-8. Other manufacturer reacting to similar issues in the past have learned this the hard way.

Personally I plan to upgrade the battery to a Optima with CCA of 800 - a 34R - shortly - and add a trickle charger. The second time my RX-8 flooded the battery just was there when I needed it.

The Rx-8 now starts instantly - I hope for the long term. I've bought an Mazda extended warranty for 7 years / 60000 miles.

RX8_GT

Racer X-8:

I agree with you - I'm loyal to Mazda as you can see by the list of some of my cars - in fact have a Mazda 626 for the family. But this is a real issue that requires a final fix - I hope the latest is the last time I have to worry about it.

The next car for my family is a MazdaSpeed 6 - in 2007 or so.

My record with new car warranties is very low demand. But basic starting and running is a minimum.

RedSheDevil

funny, i havent gotten this type of response from either MNAO (had to call about my nav firmware update disc) or my local dealer. both have been nothing but nice and helpful ... the more i read tho, the more i realize i have a very different experience at my dealership than most so ill consider myself lucky to live near a good one!!!

taking my 8 in for flooding issues next week, so we'll see how that turns out. they also knocked $10 off an oil change for me too (its too cold here for me to consider laying on the freezing garage floor to do this one).

Racer X-8

Oh, I haven't tried to talk my dealership into anything in this matter. Usually, the TSB says to give it to the customer if/when they ask, or it's a recall. This time, it's neither. I have never flooded my 8, so, I don't have much of a reason to demand a new battery or starter. It's just a different setup, as compared to, like, the oil pan issue was.

msrecant

Easy fix:

1. Start your 8
2. Back it out of the garage
3. Turn it off
4. Come out two days later and try to start it
- if it starts go back to step 1
5. Call Mazda roadside assistance
6. ......

RedSheDevil

haha, ouch! i think my 3 floodings (without having to call roadside) justify SOME type of fix. I'm not whining, but I do believe this is faulty design. Anyone who says flooded engine owners are just whiners have succumbed to the acceptance of shoddy workmanship.

Having been an industrial design major, I took classes on how to design items to their "breaking point." Which is why your vacuum cleaner will fail within 1-2 years because of some little plastic tab that just breaks off. If Mazda has a fix for this problem, they are aware of a "bug" that was not completely rectified upon beta testing. But our culture has come to accept these faults because they have been forced upon us.

One thing a car should do is start. It is not abnormal or abusive to be able to expect to move it from the garage to the driveway. Renesis or not, if it wasn't a fault of the design, MNAO would do nothing about it. Instead they are trying to rectify a design flaw.

Brice-RX8

That is also a pretty good idea to get free plugs when you are close the 30k mileage replacement. I bet.

Racer X-8

Oh yes, without a doubt!

Let me clarify one thing, and I'm glad you mentioned your three times that yours flooded... Those times that it flooded, there should have been some error codes recorded in the ECU memory. You tell them it flooded, they hook-up and see the fault codes and believe you and gve you the free battery, strater and plugs (theoretically, at least that is what I would be fighting my manager if neccessary to get). I myself however have no fault codes (yet!), so I would just be standing there telling the manager that I think he ought to give me this stuff because I know from this forum that it really really helps the good old flooding problem. Not much meat.

True though that one of the main functions of an automobile is to start. I think they ought to do a recall!

Plugs are supposed to be replaced @ 35k niles, based on schedule 2 maintenance plan.

RedSheDevil

Ill let you know if this gets brought up or not, cuz my service appt isnt until next week (I don't know how often the ECU gets refreshed or if it stores it forever)

I actually think the way they are handling it is probably right. If you don't have any problems, they shouldn't have to replace it unless you are vigilant and trying to think ahead of the game. That being said, I HAVE done exactly what you shouldn't do (the garage to driveway for washing thing) which is what caused the flooding. Have you ever tried that? Maybe you are one of the lucky ones and your car just won't flood!

I also have constant brake squeal with the stock wheels. Luckily, my service mgr said they would help me out with that once we get back into nice weather and I get my stocks back on. Mebbe I just have a great sevice dept.

Racer X-8

I only shut it down cold once, and that time, I re-started it so fast (cuz I realized what I had just done) that the tach needle didn't even have a chance to go to zero. hehe So, nope, I never shut it down cold, for this reason, of course.

The fault code stays in there for a long time. Not forever, but a pretty long time.

There's another brake pad composition for the front brake squeal problem, but there's another dozen or so threads on that topic. That's another freebie upon request / complaint from the owner (you). I didn't do that one, cuz for some odd reason, it's not a problem for me. There's a TSB on it too... http://www.finishlineperformance.com...6-04-1369b.pdf

RedSheDevil

had that done already. also have new shims. neither solved the problem. nice thing is that my dealer isnt talking about turning my rotors, but replacing them. i guess some rotors just have this problem.... just like the flooding.

funny, the reason i got my 2004 8 with only 4K miles on it last march was because of the flooding. i guess the previous owner thought it was just a lemon and sold it. lucky for me!

msrecant

Actually I (respectfully) disagree. Why should I be punished because I conscientiously followed their stupid rules about avoiding short trips. People who disregard the "rules" are rewarded with a free repair that appears to pretty much fix the problem. I am denied that repair and have to continue to avoid short trips which is particularly irritating since Mazda now agrees that it is not acceptable for the RX-8 to be so prone to flooding.

Doesn't seem right! (IMHO)

RedSheDevil

i get yer point, i was just mentioning that all 8s are not prone to this problem. thats all. tho i dont want anyone to have to find out the hard way, which is why i included people who were vigilant (such as yerself).

the reality is, this should have never happened.

RX8_GT

MSRECANT

I'm with you - it is both unfair and shortsighted for Mazda to have a "no complain -no fix" policy.

It is unfair because many RX-8 are still at high risk of flooding - sometimes in a not fault way - such as during servicing ....

It is shortsighted because each time a new customer is added to the "I Have Flooded" list - their rep will go down.

The cost of upgrading the current RX-8s vs the cost to Mazda in the long term is a no-brainer.

Recalls in other vehicles hav occurred where the problem was judged unsafe due to a no-start or no-drive situation. I'm surprised that this problem has not been judged as unsafe.

As I have said before - every owner should be assured of basic start and run performance in a modern car in the first five years.

I remain a Mazda fan - but wth a little reservation in the background. I hope to have my RX-8 for a long and good time/

msrecant

The real pain is the starter.

The plugs get changed at 30 months/37.5K miles and one expects to have to replace batteries, sometime as early as within 2-3 years. So in a reasonable period of time these components get replaced through the normal course of ownership. However, the starter (which I am sure is not cheap) is usually kept for the life of the car.

I am just not up for paying for a new starter. If you care (which I believe most customers won't) there ought to be a way to get a warranty upgrade without having to flood your car.

RX8_GT

MSRECANT:

It's the incertainity that's the main customer problem - of all my Mazdas the RX-8 is the one I'm most uncertain about the starting which is a little more than outladish IMHO.

From Mazda's point of view - the flooding has not gone away - with multiple ECU programs and now the battery-starter-plugs solution. Hopefully this one fix will stick.

Many customers are not going to replace the plugs at the recommended interval - when / if they have starting issues after - there will be bad vibes no matter what.

I enjoy my RX-8 - first saw it as a prototype at the Detroit motorshow four years ago - then as pre-production in 2003. Bought it in late 2003. BUT I do not enjoy the extra 180 mile round trips (and 'lost' time) to the dealer for multiple fixes.

msrecant

My office is walking distance from my Mazda dealer. However I also do not enjoy the continual trips there for fixes.

TheDosDog

At 40k I was having a greater number of floods and near floods so I asked the dealer to check the compression and install the new starter and plugs (previously plugs replaced at 27k after flooding). I had the work done Wednesday and afterwards I parked in my driveway then let it sit till cold. Then I started it and parked in the garage (did not rev to 3k before shutting down) and let it sit till today. This morning it was in the low 30s and it fired right up. Not the normal 3 seconds while I prayed "Please don't be flooded" but fired the second I turned the key. Previously this was the exact scenario that would flood the car. BTW, The mechanic said my compression was excellent

RX8_GT

TheDosDog:

Glad to hear about your experience with the new fix. Time will tell

Have about 19000 miles on my 2 year old 2004/ Starting well after fix but have not challenged it with a cold short move. Perhaps after I get back from Detroit Auto Show - i will challenge it.

By the way my car is garaged - both of my floods were when parked at about 40 to 50. Most of my hard starts occurred with a cooled down car after a run.

Racer X-8

Cool info. Mazda, are you reading this?

Ice Blue

Mine flooded again today. No reason just wouldent start, was drivin pleanty of time befor shut down. I have 57k on the car. I just put new plugs in it 2.6k ago and wires. I could not figure out why it floods. I checked the compression to see and it pulled 82psi on all faces.

I have to say the FE is far harder to get unflooded then any of my other rx-7s.