MX6_2_RX8

Could be. It runs fine other than that. It actually starts fine now. Even with the old plugs it would start good sometimes and hard others.

Nice job collecting data on the flooding/updating issue.

andyp04rx8

Yes I turned the car off after a couple of minutes of idling but I didn't rev it up before shutdown. Oh well several hours later the car was towed to the dealer with a flooded motor. It was the third RX-8 of the day, Sunday, he towed to the dealer for the flooding situation.
Monday after a breif visit to the dealer, Delray Mazda, I'm told it will be at least 3 days until they can fix it. According to the service rep Parts are becoming scarce. I don't know which ones, could be the starter or battery he didn't say. I wasn't to happy to hear that . With a known problem like this, mazda should have a warehouse full of parts ready to go.

Andy P.

MEGAREDS

I'm thinking of asking for the battery, spark plugs and starter at my next oil change on my '04. When they tell me -- as I am sure they will -- "no," then I am going to have them do the work on my dime. Then I am going to submit the bill to Mazda NA, and see what happens. I'm going to be traveling quite a lot this Spring, and a flood far from home would be a nightmare, although I think it very unlikely.

As my warranty period approaches the issue becomes more important. Anyone have a sense of what the charge will be?

RedSheDevil

If you are willing to go through all that trouble, you may want to consider coming down here to my dealer. They are awesome!! And John (the service manager) already knows about treating all of us RX-8 EVOLV peeps well! You should at least give him a call.

I'm going in to see him this week to ask for some help with my stripped locking lug/key. I'll be happy to ask him what he could do for you if you made the trip ...

msrecant

I would suggest you contact your dealer using the premise that your previous flood repair was "incomplete" based on the latest service bulletin. If they say "no" I would then call the 800 number and make a similar request: your car has been shown to be in the flood-prone category, you have had one partial repair and now wish to get all updates appropriate for your VIN. I suspect MNAO will authorize it.

Once you have spent the money, it will harder to get a refund. I suspect you and I pay retail for service hours and MNAO pays a lower rate.

MX6_2_RX8

OK, so I joined the flooding club a few weeks ago even with the updates (previous posts in this thread). The car seemed to start hard sometimes before it flooded. The dealer replaced the spark plugs upgraded it to the latest flash and sent me on my way. Ever since I got it back it still seems to “start hard” meaning that it cranks for 2-3 seconds before it even tries to catch.
QUESTION: Does the latest flash cut the fuel for the first few seconds of cranking to avoid adding more fuel to a flooded engine? If so I won’t worry about it but if not I think I am probably just waiting to get towed back to the dealer in the near future.

msrecant

My understanding is as follows, perhaps someone can add more:

1. The PCM changes that address flooding were done back in March 2004 and that PCM updates since then address other issues.

2. I have heard (second hand) that the PCM change included a strategy where the engine tracks whether it fully warmed up before the last shut off, and if it did not, less fuel is used during the starting process. If the engine did warm up fully, a normal starting sequence is used.

PoLaK, in a post from last year (https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-trouble-shooting-95/j-k-l-m-flash-explanations-50119/), talks about the M flash not delivering fuel for 3 seconds if the engine is cold. This doesn't match my experience but would make sense if the 3 second shutoff was only done if the engine was last shutoff without a full warmup.

Regardless, since the battery/starter/plug update on my car I would say that it starts almost instantaniously (less than a second) in moderate temperatures (above 40 degrees) even when started for the first time in the morning. Many people have posted similar experiences with the upgrades. You may want to ask to start a new RX-8 on the dealer lot to get a first hand comparison.

MX6_2_RX8

So what flash are we on now? I thought we passed M (N?) a while ago.

It seems to do it even when the engine is warm. Without any new information I guess I will just drive it and make sure not to shut it down cold.

Go48

Depends on the year and model of your RX-8. Go to the link below and check out the table on p.13. For example, for a 2004 M/T the latest flash is "R". Use that correlation to figure out the current level for your car. In any case, if they flashed your PCM using an updated WDS (tool used to install the flash), the PCM would be up to date.

http://www.finishlineperformance.com...4-05-1448e.pdf

msrecant

If you have had the Thermal Damage Recall then you are on the latest and greatest PCM level.

I believe that regardless of flash level (M or above), that you are experiencing behavior that is different than most RX-8 owners and that it is worthwhile to have it looked into. Warm engines typically don't take 3 seconds of cranking to turn over. Particularly since you have all the latest upgrades.

Roto8

Just joined the flooding club! YAY! NOT! 2004 8, started it yesterday and pulled it into the garage and with out thinking shut it right off. DOH!! I am F'ing pissed. Tried the "de-flooding" procedure, it was a no go. Now I have to waist my time getting the damn thing towed. AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

msrecant

I suggest you have Gort negotiate the repair with your dealership.

MEGAREDS

An update... and a happy surprise. I asked my dealer what the cost would be, and he said Mazda will do the work no charge, so long as the customer requests it. This seems like big news to me. I'm going to schedule the work for next week. Color me happy!

msrecant

Great news. You need to post this as a new thread in the DISCUSSIONS so that everyone is aware of it.

My personal opinion is that this has always been the Mazda USA policy.

Racer X-8

What's with the original battery? My car sat in the garage for I dunno, maybe a week? This morning I fired it up. It started ok alrighty, but it surely did crank VERY slugishly. Before I could get concerned about that, it fired up. Darn battery!!! Mine is one of the first August '03. 2 1/2 years might be not too bad for a battery life I guess, but still, my car has only about 12,500 miles on it so far, it all looks so darn nice 'n' new still. For the battery to be old & in need of replacement just doesn't seem right... eh...

MEGAREDS

It's such good news, I'm reluctant to post it, at least beyond this thread. Perhaps I will feel more confident about it after I see the new battery, starter and plugs installed, and have the $0.0 invoice in hand.

Honesty, it seems very generous. I've used this battery, plugs and starter since late '03, and the car has about 25,000 miles. The fact that they've offered this may be the reason I buy a second Mazda, though.

msrecant

That is exactly what happenned to me. I have 5/03 build with 17K miles and it sat from mid November to mid December. When I first cranked it, it barely started. If It sat a week it had a hard time starting. The symptoms were exactly a battery on its last legs.

I took it to the dealer, complained the poor starting after sitting and asked for the "Engine cranks - no start" TSB upgrades (battery, starter and plugs). They did it all under warranty, no cost to me. The car starts great now.

Yes, the original battery is just too small.

Jpaulspeed

So I have a 2005 GT coming in tomorrow will it have all the upgrades?

msrecant

Check the build date on the car (see the tag on the driver's door jamb) versus the dates in this post: https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...postcount=1155 . If it was built after 3/2005 it will have all the latest and greatest starting enhancements.

nannerhut

We are the unfortunate souls of a flooded engine. My husband started our car and moved it out of the driveway onto the street to have the windshield replaced. The glass company arrived, replaced the glass...we waited 2 hours and tried to start it to move the car back on the driveway..it wouldn't start. We know we flooded it due to the fact it was a cold start, and he turned off the engine after 12 seconds of driving it. We tried 12 times last night to start it with no success. This morning we tried for an hour until the battery died. We hooked up our truck battery to the RX-8 and after charging the battery for a long time...it finally started. The battery was too weak to turn over the engine even though we took off the spark plugs and cleaned them. They looked horrible! My husband has since driven the car for one hour, and then shut down the car. He went on an errand and when he came back the car did start back up again, but the starter sounds bad. Probably due to the fact we kept trying to start it for over an hour. I have an appt at Mazda. I have to see what's wrong with it i.e. if we damaged the starter,maybe replace battery, replace spark plugs, replace oil, and check the fuel tank. We've had our RX-8 for almost 3 years now and we drive it a lot (80 miles a day to commute to work)..and have never had this problem til now. You have no idea how frustrating it is until it happens to you. Just for moving the stupid car 15 feet. Yikes...We had an RX-7 in the years past and never had this problem. Just so frustrating.

MEGAREDS

Yep.

nannerhut

and we just hit 50,000 miles so my warrenty is void. Not fun at all.

msrecant

Since you just hit 50K, and since Mazda seems to be applying the "Engine cranks - no start" Service Bulletin so liberally to older 8s now, I would at least inquire (of both the dealer and Mazda USA) about getting the Service Bulletin updates (battery, starter, leading plugs) applied to your car at no charge. Technically if you had asked before 50K, it would probably have been done, but you had no reason to ask (being nice guys).

It never hurts to try to get them to cover it. The worst they can say is no.

nannerhut

thanks, I will ask...it can't hurt to ask.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

so your car has hit 50 k has it ever been back to the dealer. did you get the recall notice in the mail???? did you read the owners manual or watch the dvd that came in the mail about the car...

and you just found this site.. odd very odd.

beers