ultra4e

My '07 unmodified but maintained RX8 (80,000 miles) shut down after a wave impact from a truck cruising thru high water in the intersection I chose not to attempt. I pushed it off the street & onto sidewalk but the motor wouldn't turn, so I had it towed home the next day. I've read all the posts in the forum involving hydro/carbon lock and attempting the procedures suggested as follows:

1. Sat 5/12: Removed/dried out the air filter assembly & all 4 spark plugs/wires, installed 4 new coils I had since they were easily accessible, charged the battery. Can hear the starter but engine wont crank or turn over.

2. Sun 5/13: Multiple attempts at push starting failed. Jacked up rear end & turned the tires to simulate the car being pulled around since I don't have another vehicle to assist me. No movement noticed in the motor. Can hear the starter but engine wont crank or turn over.

3. Mon 5/14: Removed all 4 spark plugs and squirted ATF into all 4 plug ports then left over night.

4. Tue 5/15: Removed the air filter assembly, disconnected the ESPS, used 19mm socket with cheater bar on e-shaft pulley bolt but couldn't get it to move either direction. Reconnected all 4 spark plugs, removed upper intake manifold assembly, poured bottle of seafoam equally into 4 exposed intake ports and left overnight.

5. Wed 5/16: Used 19mm socket with cheater bar on e-shaft pulley bolt but couldn't get it to move either direction. Socket slipped on e-shaft pulley bolt but did not strip the corners. Removed spark plugs & noticed front pair were wet from seafoam but rear pair were dry. Reconnected front pair plugs & added more ATF to rear plug ports then reconnected rear pair plugs. Poured 2nd bottle of seafoam equally into 4 exposed intake ports. Charged the battery & left overnight.

Any suggestions if it still wont turn when I get home today?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for all the searching and reading, you are covering the main points.

Just confirming that you did not have it in gear with the parking brake on when you were trying to rotate the front pulley bolt?

If it is accurate that your engine won't rotate at all, it's pretty bad news.

Could you describe the actual event more clearly and precisely? Usually high water / water ingestion cracks the block and leaves an oil/coolant mess from running the engine, but doesn't prevent the engine from rotating at all.

wcs

iTrader: (2)

EEwwwwwwwy
Bump

sub'd for interest

G/L

HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

I assume you tried cranking/turning the engine with the spark plugs removed? (This would have been my first step).

If so, as a wild guess, I'd say an apex seal broke and is now jammed into a side port.

However, I find this a bit hard to understand: "Removed spark plugs & noticed front pair were wet from seafoam but rear pair were dry." You sure it was seafoam wetting the plugs? Without engine rotation, it should be hard for seafoam to migrate from the intake side to the plugs. Pouring a whole bottle in there will hydrolock the motor as effectively as water, btw.

Javii

iTrader: (1)

Hi, I've had an issue similar to yours, happened as well during high water this past Friday(hell, it was probably on that same heavy rain if you're in Houston).
Wouldn't turn over at all, tried the same night it happened, had it towed home ($175!!) and tried the next morning and nothing.

I also read over the forum and some people recommended taking out the plugs, which I did.
I noticed they were all wet and looked old, so I ordered the set from BHR on Sunday and the magnificent guys sent it first thing Monday.

Meanwhile I left the engine to dry and used compressed air on the spark plug holes to get the water out (which there was), I took the intake tube/filter out and let them dry.
2 days later I received the plugs from BHR (yesterday) and put them in there. I had to crank it 3 or 4 times while giving it gas and it turned on, sloppy at first, but it did, so far the engine is running great.

Possible issues for you:
1. There might be water in the hole where the plugs go into.
2. the plugs might not be in correctly, the front rotor plugs are a pain to put in unless you have the right tools.
3. You might have now flooded the engine with fuel if you tried to crank it many times, I believe I had mine flooded as well.

You shouldn't be scared, my situation was worse (went into a ******* puddle at 12 am and the engine died mid puddle). So I'm certain yours will work the same as mine.

Try reseting the computer before cranking it, and one question, does it feel like 'sometimes' it's about to turn over but then dies? That's what mine was doing.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Javii,

We appreciate your desire to help, but please read what he has tried so far. Your 3 possible causes can't be the issues at the moment, as none of those 3 will prevent the engine from rotating at all when you put a breaker bar and socket on the front main pulley bolt and heave.


And you were largely lucky. Ingesting a volume of water suddenly in a rotary is very likely to crack the block, spewing oil and coolant.

Javii

iTrader: (1)

You're right, I got overexcited to provide my solution. Now that I read it throughly it does sound bad... Mine was turning even seconds after shutting down.

I'll go back into hiding now..

ultra4e

Still no engine rotation either direction with breaker bar and socket on the front main pulley bolt.

Gear shift is in neutral & ebrake has been off each time I've tried.

No CEL or codes generated when I connected my laptop & OBD.

When the plugs were first pulled I did notice water on them & some dripped out the ports. They're only 4 months old so I cleaned them thoroughly, dried out the ports as best I could, and left them open most of the day to allow further evaporation.

Attempts at starting it with spark plugs out or with UIM off, just hear the starter spinning.

Since the first day after this happened, I haven't noticed any leaks of oil or coolant. When the car was being loaded onto the bed of the tow truck, I confirmed the liquid running out from the under carriage was only water. Oil & coolant levels have remained consistent this week. The clean piece of card board I placed under the engine since it's been in my driveway & daily visual checks indicate the block wasn't cracked.

Yes, this did occur during the heavy rains we had in Houston last Friday night. Prior to 'the wave', my car had been running normally all evening. I did drive slowly thru 1 block of high water reaching bottom of the car and while stopped at red light it continued to idle smoothly. I continued 1/2 block further but stopped when I noticed it was getting deeper, approximately to the bottom of the door, and watched several small cars flood out in the much deeper intersection. I motioned to the car behind me to back up so I could reverse and make a u-turn as my car continued to idle smoothly.

While waiting for room to maneuver is when the wave from a truck coming the other way gunning it thru the deep intersection got me. I had the clutch & brake depressed with gear shift in reverse when the engine died after the wave hit front end at 45 degree angle. No sputtering or shaking, just cut off and wouldn't turn over during 2 attempts to re-start. My friends & I immediately pushed my car out of the water & into puddle free parking lot.

Am I safe to assume my block isn't cracked but the engine has seized up with broke apex seal?

Should I just put it all back together and have it towed to the Mazda dealership for professional assessment resulting with rebuild or replace the engine?

My engine(80,000miles) is within the 100,000 mile/8yr Mazda warranty range. I'm the 2nd owner and had it for 2yrs but don't have proof of service prior to purchasing the vehicle.

I've read in other posts to file claim with insurance for high water damage. I do have full coverage with $500 deductible

SPHINX144

funny enough my car also died when I was getting home with my girlfriend after going out on under the downpour of friday night. the water accumulation was not significantly high, however, the car died as soon as I went in it--notice that I have the MS cold air intake. I had to get out from the car and pushed it out of the water.
it would not start immediately, eventually it did although it was running very rough but was holding idle. it was like that for most of Saturday until I had time to drive the car for an extended period of time after which the car went back to normal.
have you tried to reset the on board computer using the brake pedal? it helped me once when the car would not start-- or do anything for that matter--for no good reason.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the description. A few notes:

1) Do you have the stock intake or an aftermarket intake that hangs lower? I haven't heard of such a stalling with the OEM intake yet, presumably because the inlet sits higher and can't be so easily submerged in water (however briefly)

2) I would recommend pulling off the upper intake manifold at this point. If it's full of water, it will help confirm (shouldn't have leaked out of the runners, as it has to be a solid seal to prevent vacuum leaks)

3) Mazda doesn't warranty engine failure due to water ingestion. No reason they should. No manufacturer would. You do have insurance however, and that DOES cover flood damage, which this is.

4) You likely did not crack the block simply because you were at such low RPM.

5) It is possible that you are correct that a broken seal is locking the engine in place.


It may be worth contacting your insurance company...

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

even if a seal was stuck in a port wouldnt you be able to turn in ccw at least a little?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, you should. That's the problem I have with that theory. Same with hydrolocking. I can certainly believe that a rotor face full of water at maximum compression won't rotary any farther forward (clockwise from the front pulley), but nothing to prevent it from rotating backwards.

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

yep, i think its odd to completly lock up from water and im not sure how that could break a seal. too much pressure or something?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Certainly. Low RPM under load with the momentum of the car to force the rotors to keep turning while driving into water has cracked the block from the internal pressure for other people. He was idling, so no load and able to "Freely" stop instantly without being forced further. It's still plenty of force to damage a seal, considering that 1 of the 6 rotor faces gets the water before the rest, and 2 or 3 of the faces are still in the combustion cycle...

ultra4e

1. stock intake

2. as stated in 1st post - "Tue 5/15: ...removed upper intake manifold assembly, poured bottle of seafoam equally into 4 exposed intake ports and left overnight."
Only noticed minor beading of water on inside of removed UIM & air filter assembly, air filter was wet only on lower part but not soaked.

3. Yes, I did the reset procedure with key in start position, pump brake pedal ~20x within 8sec, oil temp needle swings right & then left, & then turned steering wheel all the way right & then all the way left.

Since no benefit in taking my car to the Mazda dealership(21mile tow) I'm looking for rotary repair specialist closer to my house in SE Houston. Going to reconnect UIM, air filter assembly, & front driver side wheel then call Progressive.

Thanks for all the replies & especially to RIWWP

I'll post how this turns out