monstermatt

I can't seem to find an answer so hopefully someone here can help me out.

I had some rough idle/stalling issues yesterday and since it was about time for a tune up I figured it was probably the plugs/wires/coils anyway. Pulled the plugs this morning to find them completely fouled, covered in oily goo. I was curious so I cleaned them with a wire brush and put them back in without the fuel pump fuse and cranked for a bit then pulled them out. They were coated in oil. Thinking that I might have some oil that had pooled in the housing for some odd reason I left the plugs out, covered the area with a towel and cranked for a total of 30s or so. The towel was soaked in oil as well as the white oil vapor I could see from the cabin coming up from under the hood.
So I know that oil is injected into the housing to lube the apex seals and what not but my question is how much should really be in there? Is it somewhat normal to have your plugs oily? I can't see how it would be but I'm no rotary mechanic. If I did have oil pooled up in the housing where did it come from and should I just crank it out like I was? I checked the accordion hose for oil and it had a very small amount of oil residue in it so I don't think it was from the crankcase.
Any help is appreciated.


2004 RX-8, MT, 105K

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Not good news.

White vapor isn't oil. That is more likely coolant.

The only way you will get that much puddling in there (for either fluid) is if you have oil control ring failure and/or coolant seal failure. Both usually means that you have a warped housing or a cracked block.

Best way of confirming this is with an oil sample (this thread is a good starting point if you have never had one done: https://www.rx8club.com/tech-garage-...m-here-184241/)

monstermatt

Damn, I hadn't thought about coolant leaking in. This is bad. This is pretty much a complete rebuild/replace isn't it?

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

yes if thats the case but i would run some tests before paying for a rebuild

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Right. If that assumption is accurate, then it's game over for the engine. But don't just assume that it's right. A $15 oil test can save you quite a bit if I am wrong.

monstermatt

Yes, I'm going to test the oil, mostly because I can't afford a rebuild right now. Anywhere you guys recommend for a reliable test?

Emery_

iTrader: (8)

Just curious, what would be a normal amount of oil to be found on the spark plugs and inside the housings?

monstermatt

^Ha, I guess the original question never got answered.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

The link I posted has quite a bit of oil testing discussion. The last page has the basics of how to do it. Blackstone Labs is the usual company to use.

None really. Maybe some light film or residue, maybe. No accumulation.

monstermatt

Thanks for all the help. I'll let you know how it turns out. Last thing. If I do replace the plugs I know it will foul them pretty quickly but would it be safe to drive?

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

Generally the plugs should be dry, I've seen them have a thin coating of oil/fuel on them. the only thing you need to worry about is the electrode getting fouled.

Just because your fuel relay fuse is pulled doesn't automatically mean your chamber will be 100% dry.

I don't know what this white oil vapor is that you are talking about is though. I dont see why coolant would magically appear and start smoking out of the top of your hood. I need more detail.

Can you break it down step by step for me and tell me what you saw happen where? It will help me diagnose whats going on.

monstermatt

Ok, here's everything starting with yesterday.

Roughly 5:00PM it was about 95F and I hadn't started the car all day I start it let it idle for 5 minutes to cool off the interior and then leave like normal. I live right off the hyway so I drive at about 65-70 MPH for ~10 miles before I come to the first stop sign. Car drops to an idle and then dies. I crank the engine a few times to no avail and then figuring I've flooded it I commence with deflooding. After the deflood I realize the car won't idle and attempts to stall below ~2K. Also copious amounts of white smoke exits the exhaust but stops after a few seconds and is not noticed on the return trip. I return home noticing some slight lag in response. I twice check the idle while rolling. Once the car idles normally at 800RPM for about 10s. Second time the car stalls and is restarted by disengaging the clutch. Once I get home the car tries to idle but is rough below 1.5K and dies shortly there after. This morning I pull the plugs as stated above. As to the white smoke and oil: I pulled the Leading plugs from both housings and cranked. The hood was open and I could see the smoke coming up from the side of the engine compartment. This was not a symptom when the plugs were in and therefore I can only assume it was coming from the plugs. I would imagine the smoke would come out from under the wheel well also if that area were not already blocked off.

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

white smoke from exhaust is most likely coolant/not good

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

It's possible that the white smoke was fuel burn-off, but yeah, it sounds more likely that you lost a coolant seal in a bad way. The coolant will eat away at the housings and seals quite quickly, and it will go from bad to worse to undrivable quickly.

monstermatt

Well it looks like I'm going to learn a whole lot about rotaries that I hoped I would never have to.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

Wait...

So you left the trailing plugs in and just took the leading plugs out right? If you did that would explain the white smoke out of the spark plug hole.

Has your coolant level dropped at all?


I'm guessing you have some bad coils, like so bad that a few dropped out and stopped firing.

you can buy a coil pack tester at advance auto parts for around $13, it looks like a spark plug.

I don't think that you have a water jacket failure, but its a possibility. You can get (rent) a coolant system pressure tester to confirm this.

monstermatt

Yes, I only took the leading plugs out. You have an excellent point and I'm praying you're right.

monstermatt

Oh and the coolant levels doesn't appear to have changed but again this is only after driving 10 miles from the point of initial failure.

monstermatt

BTW big thanks to everyone that's contributing information and ideas.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

No worries I like questions that make me think!

Its better than half the BS on this forum of people asking stupid ****.