im trying to get it fixed and sold. i need help (catalytic glowing red)
10-17-2012 | 05:16 PM
#1
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Joined: Oct 2012
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im trying to get it fixed and sold. i need help (catalytic glowing red)
im trying to get it fixed and sold. i need help
catalytic glowing red, had it replaced, still dumping too much fuel and would ruin new catalytic if i run it. i tried doing the reset thing with the odometer button and break pedal
can anyone tell me what the other codes that come up when pressing odometer button.
i somehow got to that mode when trying to do reset and might of changed something????
catalytic glowing red, had it replaced, still dumping too much fuel and would ruin new catalytic if i run it. i tried doing the reset thing with the odometer button and break pedal
can anyone tell me what the other codes that come up when pressing odometer button.
i somehow got to that mode when trying to do reset and might of changed something????
Last edited by supermex; 10-17-2012 at 05:25 PM.
10-17-2012 | 05:17 PM
#2
1) Wrong thread. This is about flooding the car.
2) If your cat is glowing it means the combustion process that is supposed to be happening inside the engine is now happening inside the cat as well. This means that you aren't burning the fuel and air in the engine and it's getting ignited from the heat in the exhaust stream. This is NEARLY always a problem with your ignition system. If the coils are failing, wires are failing, or plugs are failing (or all of the above), you won't be able to get a complete burn on the air and fuel charge, dumping it to the exhaust where it will burn there. Cat failure is mostly commonly preceded by coil failure and the owner didn't replace them, because our coils fail regularly (average about every 30,000 miles before one of the 4 will fail, sometimes sooner). Ignoring ignition health will cause cascading failures if ignored. Even if you didn't realize that you needed to, you will still keep damaging parts from failing to pay attention to it.
It's a common thing missed by new owners, or owners that don't read up on the car they drive.
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discuss...t-here-202454/
It is possible that you are misfiring for a different reason, or a different reason AND failing ignition. Especially now that you have let it get far enough to cat failure, since cat failure can cause misfiring too.
3) There is no code reset that uses the odometer button. There is a fuel trim reset with the brake pedal, but no code reset. Can you get the codes from your car FIRST before clearing? Local auto-parts stores can pull them for free.
4) The odometer button just cycles between the chassis odometer and the two trip meters. The other similar button on the other side of the cluster switches between different scales, like MPH vs KPH, miles vs kilometers, etc... Just hold it briefly to switch to the other from the one you have it on.
5) Give people a chance to reply! Even the fastest of us can take a bit of time to get to you, especially if you are posting in the wrong thread.
2) If your cat is glowing it means the combustion process that is supposed to be happening inside the engine is now happening inside the cat as well. This means that you aren't burning the fuel and air in the engine and it's getting ignited from the heat in the exhaust stream. This is NEARLY always a problem with your ignition system. If the coils are failing, wires are failing, or plugs are failing (or all of the above), you won't be able to get a complete burn on the air and fuel charge, dumping it to the exhaust where it will burn there. Cat failure is mostly commonly preceded by coil failure and the owner didn't replace them, because our coils fail regularly (average about every 30,000 miles before one of the 4 will fail, sometimes sooner). Ignoring ignition health will cause cascading failures if ignored. Even if you didn't realize that you needed to, you will still keep damaging parts from failing to pay attention to it.
It's a common thing missed by new owners, or owners that don't read up on the car they drive.
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discuss...t-here-202454/
Importance of Ignition Health:
************************ READ THIS!!!! ************************
One of the most often overlooked or ignored parts of RX-8 ownership is the health of the ignition system. This includes the ignition coils, spark plug wires, and spark plugs. They fail. Often. So often as to be critical parts of regular maintenance.
Before I detail why, check out the first post of this thread here: The impact of old coils, wires, & plugs - RX8Club.com (owner's post here: [FEELER] Spring 2012 MM Tuning / Dyno Day @ Speed1 Allentown (formerly KDRotary) - Page 8 - RX8Club.com)
The owner's power dropped from 199whp to 172whp JUST from failing ignition. That's a 13.5% power loss!
Do I have your attention now? Good.
Mazda officially lists the plug wires and plugs as part of regular maintenance, but not the coils. Many dealers STILL don't know how easily the coils can fail. And they fail about the same time as the wires and plugs, which is about every 30,000 miles. Some can last longer, some shorter, and it's more related to your total RPMs than it is to your mileage. Highway cruising is easier on the coils than spending a day pounding around a race track.
When coils fail, they don't suddenly shut off. They start producing weaker pulses scattered among strong ones. The rate of weak pulses slowly increases and pulses start getting dropped entirely, which is where misfires start. All of this means that you aren't burning all the fuel and aren't using all the air that the engine pulled in for that combustion, and it unburnt fuel and air gets dumped into the exhaust, where it happily ignites with the presence of plenty of heat. This saturates the cat in both fuel and heat, and will rapidly kill the cat (A $1,300 USD replacement). Continuing to drive on a failing cat will add other problems such as engine damage and vehicle fires. I am not exaggerating, this can happen with just a single cat failure!
Plug fouling and wire failure is largely the same result, since all 3 pieces are needed for a complete spark. Foul the plug and it doesn't matter if the coil and wire are good. Break down the wire and it doesn't matter if the coil and plug are good.
Symptoms of ignition failure include: Power Loss, mileage drop, unstable idle, bad idle, inability to idle, shaking at idle, unstable high rpm, misfiring, flashing CEL, coughing engine, glowing cat, flooding, inability to start, inability to pass an emissions sniffer test, and just about anything you can think of where a weak or missing spark causes problems.
And if one fails, it will cascade to the other trio on the same rotor. A plug that can't fire will start fouling the other. A coil that can't fire a plug starts wearing out rapidly (if you want to test this, just unplug a wire from a plug and run the engine for a while. The coil will rapidly fail. Not unique to rotary engines)
Why do coils fail so easily?
This is largely because Mazda opted for cheap coils because of RX-7 owner complaints about how expensive their coils were. The RX-7 coils lasted much longer though. So Mazda went cheap, and so we have to replace regularly. And you can't compare to piston engine coils. A piston engine with the same setup of 1 coil for 1 plug has an average RPM of about 2,500rpm and the coil is firing every other revolution, so the coil is firing about 1,250 pulses per minute. Our rotary has an average RPM of more like 4,000rpm, and each coil fires every revolution, so about 4,000 pulses per minute. That's a bit over 3 times more. Even a piston max RPM of about 6,000rpm vs our 9,000rpm makes the difference 3,000 pulses per minute vs 9,000 pulses per minute, or 3 times as fast.
If our coils would last about 3 times longer, you are talking an average of 90,000 miles.
So keep your ignition healthy!
************************ READ THIS!!!! ************************
One of the most often overlooked or ignored parts of RX-8 ownership is the health of the ignition system. This includes the ignition coils, spark plug wires, and spark plugs. They fail. Often. So often as to be critical parts of regular maintenance.
Before I detail why, check out the first post of this thread here: The impact of old coils, wires, & plugs - RX8Club.com (owner's post here: [FEELER] Spring 2012 MM Tuning / Dyno Day @ Speed1 Allentown (formerly KDRotary) - Page 8 - RX8Club.com)
The owner's power dropped from 199whp to 172whp JUST from failing ignition. That's a 13.5% power loss!
Do I have your attention now? Good.
Mazda officially lists the plug wires and plugs as part of regular maintenance, but not the coils. Many dealers STILL don't know how easily the coils can fail. And they fail about the same time as the wires and plugs, which is about every 30,000 miles. Some can last longer, some shorter, and it's more related to your total RPMs than it is to your mileage. Highway cruising is easier on the coils than spending a day pounding around a race track.
When coils fail, they don't suddenly shut off. They start producing weaker pulses scattered among strong ones. The rate of weak pulses slowly increases and pulses start getting dropped entirely, which is where misfires start. All of this means that you aren't burning all the fuel and aren't using all the air that the engine pulled in for that combustion, and it unburnt fuel and air gets dumped into the exhaust, where it happily ignites with the presence of plenty of heat. This saturates the cat in both fuel and heat, and will rapidly kill the cat (A $1,300 USD replacement). Continuing to drive on a failing cat will add other problems such as engine damage and vehicle fires. I am not exaggerating, this can happen with just a single cat failure!
Plug fouling and wire failure is largely the same result, since all 3 pieces are needed for a complete spark. Foul the plug and it doesn't matter if the coil and wire are good. Break down the wire and it doesn't matter if the coil and plug are good.
Symptoms of ignition failure include: Power Loss, mileage drop, unstable idle, bad idle, inability to idle, shaking at idle, unstable high rpm, misfiring, flashing CEL, coughing engine, glowing cat, flooding, inability to start, inability to pass an emissions sniffer test, and just about anything you can think of where a weak or missing spark causes problems.
And if one fails, it will cascade to the other trio on the same rotor. A plug that can't fire will start fouling the other. A coil that can't fire a plug starts wearing out rapidly (if you want to test this, just unplug a wire from a plug and run the engine for a while. The coil will rapidly fail. Not unique to rotary engines)
Why do coils fail so easily?
This is largely because Mazda opted for cheap coils because of RX-7 owner complaints about how expensive their coils were. The RX-7 coils lasted much longer though. So Mazda went cheap, and so we have to replace regularly. And you can't compare to piston engine coils. A piston engine with the same setup of 1 coil for 1 plug has an average RPM of about 2,500rpm and the coil is firing every other revolution, so the coil is firing about 1,250 pulses per minute. Our rotary has an average RPM of more like 4,000rpm, and each coil fires every revolution, so about 4,000 pulses per minute. That's a bit over 3 times more. Even a piston max RPM of about 6,000rpm vs our 9,000rpm makes the difference 3,000 pulses per minute vs 9,000 pulses per minute, or 3 times as fast.
If our coils would last about 3 times longer, you are talking an average of 90,000 miles.
So keep your ignition healthy!
3) There is no code reset that uses the odometer button. There is a fuel trim reset with the brake pedal, but no code reset. Can you get the codes from your car FIRST before clearing? Local auto-parts stores can pull them for free.
4) The odometer button just cycles between the chassis odometer and the two trip meters. The other similar button on the other side of the cluster switches between different scales, like MPH vs KPH, miles vs kilometers, etc... Just hold it briefly to switch to the other from the one you have it on.
5) Give people a chance to reply! Even the fastest of us can take a bit of time to get to you, especially if you are posting in the wrong thread.
10-17-2012 | 05:33 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
I will admit I had no clue about this car. my step-son bought it, could not afford it so we took it over to help him .. now i just wanna kill him because the engine light was on then. ughhhhh
1) Wrong thread. This is about flooding the car.
2) If your cat is glowing it means the combustion process that is supposed to be happening inside the engine is now happening inside the cat as well. This means that you aren't burning the fuel and air in the engine and it's getting ignited from the heat in the exhaust stream. This is NEARLY always a problem with your ignition system. If the coils are failing, wires are failing, or plugs are failing (or all of the above), you won't be able to get a complete burn on the air and fuel charge, dumping it to the exhaust where it will burn there. Cat failure is mostly commonly preceded by coil failure and the owner didn't replace them, because our coils fail regularly (average about every 30,000 miles before one of the 4 will fail, sometimes sooner). Ignoring ignition health will cause cascading failures if ignored. Even if you didn't realize that you needed to, you will still keep damaging parts from failing to pay attention to it.
It's a common thing missed by new owners, or owners that don't read up on the car they drive.
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discuss...t-here-202454/
It is possible that you are misfiring for a different reason, or a different reason AND failing ignition. Especially now that you have let it get far enough to cat failure, since cat failure can cause misfiring too.
3) There is no code reset that uses the odometer button. There is a fuel trim reset with the brake pedal, but no code reset. Can you get the codes from your car FIRST before clearing? Local auto-parts stores can pull them for free.
4) The odometer button just cycles between the chassis odometer and the two trip meters. The other similar button on the other side of the cluster switches between different scales, like MPH vs KPH, miles vs kilometers, etc... Just hold it briefly to switch to the other from the one you have it on.
5) Give people a chance to reply! Even the fastest of us can take a bit of time to get to you, especially if you are posting in the wrong thread.
2) If your cat is glowing it means the combustion process that is supposed to be happening inside the engine is now happening inside the cat as well. This means that you aren't burning the fuel and air in the engine and it's getting ignited from the heat in the exhaust stream. This is NEARLY always a problem with your ignition system. If the coils are failing, wires are failing, or plugs are failing (or all of the above), you won't be able to get a complete burn on the air and fuel charge, dumping it to the exhaust where it will burn there. Cat failure is mostly commonly preceded by coil failure and the owner didn't replace them, because our coils fail regularly (average about every 30,000 miles before one of the 4 will fail, sometimes sooner). Ignoring ignition health will cause cascading failures if ignored. Even if you didn't realize that you needed to, you will still keep damaging parts from failing to pay attention to it.
It's a common thing missed by new owners, or owners that don't read up on the car they drive.
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discuss...t-here-202454/
It is possible that you are misfiring for a different reason, or a different reason AND failing ignition. Especially now that you have let it get far enough to cat failure, since cat failure can cause misfiring too.
3) There is no code reset that uses the odometer button. There is a fuel trim reset with the brake pedal, but no code reset. Can you get the codes from your car FIRST before clearing? Local auto-parts stores can pull them for free.
4) The odometer button just cycles between the chassis odometer and the two trip meters. The other similar button on the other side of the cluster switches between different scales, like MPH vs KPH, miles vs kilometers, etc... Just hold it briefly to switch to the other from the one you have it on.
5) Give people a chance to reply! Even the fastest of us can take a bit of time to get to you, especially if you are posting in the wrong thread.
10-17-2012 | 05:36 PM
#4
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 13
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what thread should i be on? if you don't mind me asking.. today is my first run on this great site...
10-17-2012 | 05:38 PM
#5
Then chances are the ignition is shot (coils, plugs, wires). Can order all 12 pieces for around $180-$250 from vendors here or some judicious shopping. They are maintenance items, and are not considered abnormal failures. Replacing them is accomplished in 1 hour if you don't know what you are doing, with only a ratchet, a few extensions, a 10mm socket, and a large size plug socket.
If you take it to a dealer, they will charge you $300-$600 for the parts and another $300-$500 for the labor to swap them in. If you can't do it yourself, look for help local to you in the regional subforums. Most of us are completely willing to assist fellow owners.
Keep answering here for now, until the posts suddenly disappear. I have already requested that this discussion get moved out to it's own troubleshooting thread in this subforum. Once they disappear here, take a look in the same subforum for a thread that you "Started". Title could be anything the mod/admin names it, but probably something related to ignition failure and/or cat problems.
If you take it to a dealer, they will charge you $300-$600 for the parts and another $300-$500 for the labor to swap them in. If you can't do it yourself, look for help local to you in the regional subforums. Most of us are completely willing to assist fellow owners.
Keep answering here for now, until the posts suddenly disappear. I have already requested that this discussion get moved out to it's own troubleshooting thread in this subforum. Once they disappear here, take a look in the same subforum for a thread that you "Started". Title could be anything the mod/admin names it, but probably something related to ignition failure and/or cat problems.
10-17-2012 | 05:42 PM
#7
Selling an RX-8 with shot ignition will give all the symptoms of a failing engine, making it's value somewhere between $3,000 and $4,000, assuming everything else is in good condition. Replacing the ignition does wonders, and can bring up the value to double that easily, possibly more depending on the history and the overall condition.
Even if you want to sell it, I highly recommend you replace the ignition prior to selling it, as you will multiply the effective value by far more than the cost of the ignition.
Even if you want to sell it, I highly recommend you replace the ignition prior to selling it, as you will multiply the effective value by far more than the cost of the ignition.
10-17-2012 | 05:45 PM
#9
For OEM parts, Mazmart is the best vendor here. No contest.
Mazmart is the user name, or Mazmart.com, or sales@mazmart.com
Mazmart is the user name, or Mazmart.com, or sales@mazmart.com
10-19-2012 | 09:30 AM
#12
Rockie Mountain Newbie
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,601
Likes: 28
From: Denver, CO
Why take the offer when $180 worth of parts fixes the entire issue, and cranks the price up several thousand more dollars?
I just bought 4 ignition coils, 4 spark plugs, and 1 ignition wire set from Advance Auto parts using discount codes, and it cost me $179.69, shipped, with tax. The total of the parts without tax was $166.61, with free shipping.
Why throw money away?
Hell, sell me the car for $5k, I'll install the parts I just bought, and then sell it to CarMax tomorrow for $8500. Nice $3500 profit for me, as long as your car has no body damage, and a clean carfax history.
And no, I don't really want to buy your car, but I'm just expressing how much money you are throwing away by not spending $180.
BC.
I just bought 4 ignition coils, 4 spark plugs, and 1 ignition wire set from Advance Auto parts using discount codes, and it cost me $179.69, shipped, with tax. The total of the parts without tax was $166.61, with free shipping.
Why throw money away?
Hell, sell me the car for $5k, I'll install the parts I just bought, and then sell it to CarMax tomorrow for $8500. Nice $3500 profit for me, as long as your car has no body damage, and a clean carfax history.
And no, I don't really want to buy your car, but I'm just expressing how much money you are throwing away by not spending $180.
BC.
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