Mazda denied warranty on engine replacement....
02-06-2010 | 03:19 PM
#51
Any internal combustion engine can hydrolock. Since these engines compress air and fuel mix to about 10% of its original volume, if it slurps in more water than can fit in the combustion chamber, the rotor will stop dead. The flywheel will keep trying to turn the engine, and something is going to give. Besides, didn't the dealer, in the other thread, say the engine had been hydrolocked?
From wikipedia:
The compressibility of water is a function of pressure and temperature. At 0 °C in the limit of zero pressure the compressibility is 5.1×10−10 Pa−1.[19] In the zero pressure limit the compressibility reaches a minimum of 4.4×10−10 Pa−1 around 45 °C before increasing again with increasing temperature. As the pressure is increased the compressibility decreases, being 3.9×10−10 Pa−1 at 0 °C and 100 MPa. The bulk modulus of water is 2.2 GPa.[20] The low compressibility of non-gases, and of water in particular, leads to their often being assumed as incompressible. The low compressibility of water means that even in the deep oceans at 4 km depth, where pressures are 40 MPa, there is only a 1.8% decrease in volume.[20]
The pressure at a depth of 4km is roughly 5,880 p.s.i. That's how much pressure you need to reduce water 1.8% in volume. Would a Mazda rotary be able to withstand a chamber pressure of 5,880 p.s.i.? I don't know. Does anyone here? Even if it could, then all it would take to hydrolock the engine is 101.9% of minimum chamber volume to be filled with water.
Last edited by longpath; 02-06-2010 at 03:32 PM.
02-06-2010 | 03:33 PM
#52
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Do you know what will happen when rotary drag car running on methanol misfires?? There is so much not compressible liquid that some parts of the engine will give-up... What you wrote is BS, every positive displacement engine can be hydrolocked...
02-06-2010 | 03:46 PM
#54
They can hydrolock...but the amount of water that would have to be ingested is quite large......
To get that in through an air filter...you would need to completely submerge it in water with the engine running.....water spray on a filter would not do it.
I hooked a large vac line to a gallon of water and sucked it into my engine in less than a minute...and it barely hiccuped.....
For the dealer to say it was hydrolocked without even pulling the plugs...is so full of ****....
To get that in through an air filter...you would need to completely submerge it in water with the engine running.....water spray on a filter would not do it.
I hooked a large vac line to a gallon of water and sucked it into my engine in less than a minute...and it barely hiccuped.....
For the dealer to say it was hydrolocked without even pulling the plugs...is so full of ****....
02-06-2010 | 03:51 PM
#55
Depends what you want
You can buy a good used engine from a wrecker...for 2K or less...
I bought one from a car with 5K miles on it for less than that....
You could buy a reman from Mazda....3-4K
You could buy a rebuild from Mazmart....they build good engines.....for under 3K
You could spend 10K plus for ported, ceramic seals..fully balanced etc
You could talk to Brian Cain, BHR and other builders on here and ask as well...
Usually install would be $800-1000 depending on what state the engine going in is in..ie short block or longblock
02-06-2010 | 03:59 PM
#56
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 99
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Depends what you want
You can buy a good used engine from a wrecker...for 2K or less...
I bought one from a car with 5K miles on it for less than that....
You could buy a reman from Mazda....3-4K
You could buy a rebuild from Mazmart....they build good engines.....for under 3K
You could spend 10K plus for ported, ceramic seals..fully balanced etc
You could talk to Brian Cain, BHR and other builders on here and ask as well...
Usually install would be $800-1000 depending on what state the engine going in is in..ie short block or longblock
You can buy a good used engine from a wrecker...for 2K or less...
I bought one from a car with 5K miles on it for less than that....
You could buy a reman from Mazda....3-4K
You could buy a rebuild from Mazmart....they build good engines.....for under 3K
You could spend 10K plus for ported, ceramic seals..fully balanced etc
You could talk to Brian Cain, BHR and other builders on here and ask as well...
Usually install would be $800-1000 depending on what state the engine going in is in..ie short block or longblock
02-06-2010 | 04:08 PM
#58
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
so what do you suggest i really dont want to spend more than 4k on engine and installation but will if i have to ....and what is the lifespan of the renisis
02-06-2010 | 04:09 PM
#59
I didn't say it couldn't.. but very difficult. I don't think I've ever read of a case on these forums of a true hydrolocked renesis or even 13b.
02-06-2010 | 04:11 PM
#60
Surf Hard, Drive Hard
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,840
Likes: 12
From: Indialantic, Florida
You have an 8 year 100k warranty on the engine. Sometime in the next 10k miles, I would go pay for and get a compression check from the dealer. Of course they will only replace the motor if it is bad and you have most(if not all) of your oil change receipts.
Now............can we get this thread back on track please!!!!!
Now............can we get this thread back on track please!!!!!
Last edited by Mazurfer; 02-06-2010 at 04:16 PM.
02-06-2010 | 04:13 PM
#61
Quoting something that makes sense.
Okay... if you say so.
You can't get enough water in a rotary to hydrolock it... is that better??? It will still move, and rotate...
Unlike a piston motor, which will get to the point where you can not continue the pistons upwards movement because the water is compressed to the point where it changes the viscosity. And you will not be able to open a intake or exhaust valve to release it. That is Hydro locked.
and it is a myth that should be covered in your high school physics class that water is not compressible.
Check this out...
The water that is at the bottom of the ocean is compressed by the weight of the water at the top, therefore the water near the ocean floor is denser than the water at the surface.
But here is some real science:
If you compressed water in some type of laboratory setting using a metallic sphere made of copper which was heated to extreme temperature to expand then dumped into a pool of water, the gap left open to fill the sphere with water would close over from the coolness of being dropped into a liquid cooler than the solid which would lead to the sphere shrinking and the water inside becoming compressed.
Whew.
So as water is compressed, density increases. The property is known as "bulk modulus". Water is compressible, but being a liquid it is nearly incompressible (which is where your statement comes from I guess). The amount it can be compressed is defined by the bulk modulus.
See this hyperphysics link: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/permot3.html
{edit} and this one: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...mpress.html#c1 {end edit}
You can't get enough water in a rotary to hydrolock it... is that better??? It will still move, and rotate...
Unlike a piston motor, which will get to the point where you can not continue the pistons upwards movement because the water is compressed to the point where it changes the viscosity. And you will not be able to open a intake or exhaust valve to release it. That is Hydro locked.
and it is a myth that should be covered in your high school physics class that water is not compressible.
Check this out...
The water that is at the bottom of the ocean is compressed by the weight of the water at the top, therefore the water near the ocean floor is denser than the water at the surface.
But here is some real science:
If you compressed water in some type of laboratory setting using a metallic sphere made of copper which was heated to extreme temperature to expand then dumped into a pool of water, the gap left open to fill the sphere with water would close over from the coolness of being dropped into a liquid cooler than the solid which would lead to the sphere shrinking and the water inside becoming compressed.
Whew.
So as water is compressed, density increases. The property is known as "bulk modulus". Water is compressible, but being a liquid it is nearly incompressible (which is where your statement comes from I guess). The amount it can be compressed is defined by the bulk modulus.
See this hyperphysics link: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/permot3.html
{edit} and this one: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...mpress.html#c1 {end edit}
02-06-2010 | 04:18 PM
#62
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 99
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all i need to get a new engine from the dealer is fail a compression test but what if i just recently purchased the car and do not have any oil change receipts i got it at 76k and have the receipt for the most recent oil change any suggestion on how i can get away with getting a new engine??
02-06-2010 | 04:21 PM
#63
Surf Hard, Drive Hard
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,840
Likes: 12
From: Indialantic, Florida
^................that ain't gonna work.
If you only have the receipts you say, then it will be denied.
Best thing for you to do is run some Seafoam or Mazda cleaner through it and start with that followed by other potential items to help. I suggest you use "advanced search" and look for "Seafoam" or go to the DIY section and read up on it.
If you only have the receipts you say, then it will be denied.
Best thing for you to do is run some Seafoam or Mazda cleaner through it and start with that followed by other potential items to help. I suggest you use "advanced search" and look for "Seafoam" or go to the DIY section and read up on it.
02-06-2010 | 04:36 PM
#65
If you bought it privately then you might have a more difficult time....but like I said that depends on your dealer
02-06-2010 | 04:50 PM
#67
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
my dealer gives me a hard time i bought the car from a private dealer and took it once to maxxon mazda when i had my first flood they were not very helpful but they did do the job i do not think they will be as compassionate as i want them to be but the oil change records of this car will most likely never be found unless there is a chance i make my dealership call the dealership the car was originally purchased at somwhere in cali and mayb they will have the records if the previous owner did oil changes at the dealership????
02-07-2010 | 10:42 AM
#68
Sign up on MazdaUSA.com, owners section. Once you plug in the VIN to identify which car you own, it will pull back any service done at any Mazda dealer on record. Mine has all the service records from dealers (including bumper repair, etc...) automatically added up until the point when I started doing my own service, and I manually added all the records for that.
I am also keeping every oil filter, and wrote with a sharpie the date and mileage that it was removed. Oil replaced at the same time each time.
If I have to get a new engine under warranty, I could see them saying "so you changed the filter, but that doesn't prove you changed the oil", but then again, "Receipts from autozone" or whatever for the oil doesn't mean you changed it, just that you bought it. Even if I kept all the old oil, it wouldn't mean anything, because they can't prove it's from my 8.
Legally, they have to 'prove' a reason to deny it. The receipts and such are not much more than good faith showing that you paid attention to maintenance.
I am also keeping every oil filter, and wrote with a sharpie the date and mileage that it was removed. Oil replaced at the same time each time.
If I have to get a new engine under warranty, I could see them saying "so you changed the filter, but that doesn't prove you changed the oil", but then again, "Receipts from autozone" or whatever for the oil doesn't mean you changed it, just that you bought it. Even if I kept all the old oil, it wouldn't mean anything, because they can't prove it's from my 8.
Legally, they have to 'prove' a reason to deny it. The receipts and such are not much more than good faith showing that you paid attention to maintenance.
02-07-2010 | 11:12 PM
#70
Good link *RIP Icemark*
I keep all oil/filter receipts. and I entered all record to MazdaUSA.
Some dealerships like Wayne has been very good at doing Warranty work. other places, like Great Neck, Manhattan, Griffrue, etc. has been nothing but trouble(and they suck at fixing stuff, Manhattan cant even get oil filter right ... and deny replacing the Coolant bottle when it was clearly a manufacture defect)
If anybody wanna say I bought the oil and filter but doesnt mean I changed the oil. well, Im gonna tell them if I start searching on Google on how to make bombs, then next thing I search is "how to bomb a dealership up" , that doesn't mean I am doing it, right ?
I keep all oil/filter receipts. and I entered all record to MazdaUSA.
Some dealerships like Wayne has been very good at doing Warranty work. other places, like Great Neck, Manhattan, Griffrue, etc. has been nothing but trouble(and they suck at fixing stuff, Manhattan cant even get oil filter right ... and deny replacing the Coolant bottle when it was clearly a manufacture defect)
If anybody wanna say I bought the oil and filter but doesnt mean I changed the oil. well, Im gonna tell them if I start searching on Google on how to make bombs, then next thing I search is "how to bomb a dealership up" , that doesn't mean I am doing it, right ?
Last edited by nycgps; 02-07-2010 at 11:15 PM.
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