snowrydr01

Timeline

Thursday Night:
Did spark plugs

Friday Night:
Drove into garage (last time it started) and swapped ignition coils
Pushed out into driveway because i didnt want to flood it or wake the baby

Sunday:
Went to start to drive into garage...Nothing

Went ahead and pulled off the upper intake manifold to get to the SSV to free it up and do the bandaid clean until spring when i will do it the right way

While the throttle body was off i confirmed the coil pack plugs were engaged fully and all spark plug wires engaged fully and in correct location

Re assembled everything

Disconnected the battery, set steering, cleared ECU

Tried to fire again and nothing

Bought a jumper battery pack, did flood procedure just in case, still no fire

It turns over fine, but it doesnt even try to fire.


Any ideas?

Short of putting the old packs back on and seeing what happens I am out of ideas. I have quadroople checked and everything is plugged back in.

There is an odd hum when the key is in the ON position. I have never noticed it before but admittedly i havent spent much time under the hood of the mazda recently. It almost sounds like a ground loop hum on a bad stereo install.

I have not confirmed spark because its just as easy for me to just swap in old parts which was the plan for next weekend if nobody has any easy answers.

Grace_Excel

iTrader: (5)

What year, how many miles, AT/MT; and I may have just skimmed through, but were the ignition coils replaced with a new one as well?

snowrydr01

2005, MT, 48k miles

Yes ignition coils were new, the problem began after replacing them

McKennaR

iTrader: (1)

Are you deflooding by pulling the plugs and the fuel system fuse / relay and unplugging the air pump or just by flooring it and cranking for a while?

You can check for spark by pulling the above mentioned fuse / relay, then pull a plug but keep it connected to the HT lead, crank it over and see if you can see spark. Repeat this for all 4.

It won't tell you if you have strong enough spark, but it will at least tell you if you have spark.

Note: weak spark isn't necessarily enough to fire the car, but it can help troubleshoot.

If you're that concerned, I'd just de-flood (again) with the old coils and see if it'll run.

snowrydr01

If im going as far as pulling the plugs, I am just going to put the old ones back in to eliminate another variable.

What kills me is that with four coil packs, even if one was defective you would have to hear it trying, but there is nothing.

Short of fouling all 4 new plugs (after never doing so in 8 years of ownership is highly unlikely) i cant think of what i couldve done that it doesnt even TRY to figure up, not even a burp.

Any chance i could have pissed off the throttle body by manually operating it while i was cleaning the butterfly?

Mazurfer

Last question.......................nope, I clean my throttle body and manually operate it when I do so.
If you got four new plugs and coils, then I doubt they are bad.
You didn't disconnect any ground wire(s) and forget to reattach did you? what about the one under the air box?
I'm also assuming you are/were putting in stock coils? Therefore you only had to disconnect the connectors and nothing else?
Anyway, why not try and pull start it? Get up to about 18mph in 2nd gear and let out the clutch and see if it fires. The ONLY thing I can think of is to check your wiring to the coils and make sure one or more pins on the connectors didn't back out and isn't making contact.

snowrydr01

My wife hates helping with the cars, especially with a five week old baby and its 20degrees out so I've got to be able to do it alone.

I think I'm just going to have to put the old coils in. While I'm fine there I'll put new plug wires on. I would use an amp clamp, but again i have to be able to trouble shoot alone.

Any idea what that hum is under the hood is? Will the throttle body move with the key in the on position?

snowrydr01

I don't remember a ground wire under the air box, just a vacuum line, then the may plug and the one on the back of the air box.

McKennaR

iTrader: (1)

That humming noise can be the throttle body, that's a normal sound. It could also be your air pump. Mine comes on pre-start too, but turns off shortly thereafter. You can try to figure out what's making the noise by unplugging things.

Sniff the tailpipes after a prolonged starting attempt, does it smell like fuel? If yes, then you're getting fuel, and that's one thing down.

Now you need to make sure you're getting air and spark.

Try to see if you're at least getting spark while you have the plugs out, if that's the route you choose to take.

Also w/r to throttle plate opening, make sure you didn't accidentally loosen any pins in the TB plug when you were removing it. I'm talking on the harness side. Then remove the accordion, turn it to on, and try to coax your wife into helping you actuate the throttle. Try to do this within 5 seconds of turning the key to "on" but not run.

If, when you put the old plugs and coils back in the car it still doesn't want to fire, let us know how you're deflooding the thing. Without knowing if you have MSP-16 or if you've deflooded a car successfully in the past, it's tough to recommend further action without sending you on a wild goose chase.

Maybe, and I'm grasping at straws here, you nudged the ESS connector somehow? If you're not flooded and you're getting fuel air and spark, and your immobilizer light isn't freaking out at you on the dash when you're trying to start, if your ESS is unplugged, the car won't fire.

Sorry this is all over the place but trying to troubleshoot from 1500 miles away is kinda tough.

Best of luck

Ryan

Grace_Excel

iTrader: (5)

Instead of removing the new coils to install the old ones, try Pep-Boys or NAPA Autoparts for one of this: DIY: Testing GM LS2/Yukon coils and sparkplug wires

snowrydr01

Its funny, I had actually done a bit of research about it and decided against it because i have a 5 week old and time is a premium right now. Now Im spending just as much time on the damn stock coil packs as i wouldve on this. Im already $230 committed to the OEM route in coils and wires so I am going to have to work with what ive got now

snowrydr01

The deflooding procedure im usings is pulling the fuel relay, turning it over WOT, then putting the relay in and trying again. With a battery jumper, new coils and new plugs, presumable it would have enough power to spark without pulling plugs and evacuating the housing that way....at least in my mind.

I think saturday I am going to pull the new plugs first and inspect them to try get an idea what is going on in there. I will hit them with some carb cleaner and work my way back to the ignition coils.

Grace_Excel

iTrader: (5)

If this is the first time you're deflooding, it's going to be difficult until you got the feel of it. My first deflood took me at least two hours while piggy backed to a friends' car battery. That was before I learned that it was quicker to deflood by pull or push-starting the car. We know the coils are new, so I would leave that alone and work your way down from there: charged battery, clean MAF/IAT ES Sensors, coils propperly sits on the bracket not loose, plug wires are snapped in place, right coil wired to the corresponding spark plug; and I'll be first to ask, there is gas in your tank, right?

McKennaR

iTrader: (1)

For reference, here's the sound differential between a flooded car and a non-flooded car:

Flooded car(old starter):

Not-flooded car (old starter):

snowrydr01

That was very helpfull it sounds crisp like the non flooded video. this is my plan for saturday:

Pull and clean plugs incase they were fouled.
try to start
replace plug wires (have to anyway)
try to start
put old coil packs back on (check throttle body movement while box is off)
try to start
put old plugs back in
try to start

If after all of that it doesnt turn over then i have no idea what to do next? All of those will be starting with a baterry jumper pack to make sure i have enough juice.

snowrydr01

I live in a VERY hilly neighborhood so id rather not try to push/pull start and it not work.

all sensors where cleaned during the coil install, i didnt even unplug the batery until it wouldnt start the first time and i thought to reset the ecu. Lots of gas in the tank.

Plugs are to the right coil, just to make sure i tried to mess them up and they wouldnt reach the wrong pack. Hell i even spread the prongs in the plugs to ensure a more mechanical contact when inserted into the coil. Dieletric grease in all boots.

McKennaR

iTrader: (1)

You say all sensors were cleaned during coil install... which sensors?

If it sounds like the non-flooded video above, and there's no raw fuel smell at the tailpipes during start attempts with the fuel system relay / fuse in place then you're not getting fuel.

If, with the relay / fuse in place you end up flooding the car and making your garage smell like raw fuel then you're not getting either air or spark.

Even with a failed throttle body you should be getting "something" during a start attempt if you're not flooded and have spark.

The only thing I can think of that would prevent you from getting fuel and / or spark is an unplugged ESS pigtail.

I know you've probably done this a dozen times by now but go back through all of the connectors... every one you touched. TB connector, MAF connector, ESS connector if you unplugged that, all of the coil pack connectors, and perhaps anything you might have bumped into in the area.

And I only say this because I've done it before... but you didn't by any chance stuff a rag into your throttle body or inlet pipe while you had it apart to prevent debris from getting in there... then forgot to remove it, did you? Had to ask.

snowrydr01

I cant think of why i wouldve disconnected the ESS, i dont even know where it is. I cast a pretty wide net of my "is anything unplugged" search.

No rags in the runners..I even pulled the upper intake apart to clean the SSV after it wouldnt start since that was my goal for the day anyway.

snowrydr01

FAIL FAIL and FAIL

Pulled fuel fuse, plugs, turned over without plugs to clear any residual gas, cleaned plugs, replaced wires, charged battery jumper.

NOTHING

Replaced coils with old known good ones, pulled leading plugs to clear any fuel
I saw combustion from residual fuel and trailing plugs so there must be spark, charged battery jumper
Checked ESS plug and anything withing 2 feet of were i was working

NOTHING

Pulled leading plugs, turned over to clear fuel, hooked up to jeep with optima and high output alternator

NOTHING

Pulled leading plugs, turned over to clear fuel, replaced with old plugs

NOTHING


Any thoughts?

I have the first date tonight with my wife since she gave birth 5 weeks ago so id REALLY like to be in a better mood so i dont screw up our first night out of the house

snowrydr01

since i saw flames and got sprayed in the face with gas (both lessons learned) i can assume there is fuel and spark and im going to give the deflooding procedure a shot since im out of ideas

https://www.rx8club.com/do-yourself-...lumber-182410/

snowrydr01

ended up being flooded....badly

Although i am going to be seriously nervous when i go to change the coil packs next weekend again.

Cleaning the SSV did get rid of the power loss i attributed to the coil packs but they have 48k on them so they have to go anyway. I will also be changing the battery and adding an oil catch can while i am at it

oh...and a lesson learned about de-flooding. I almost burnt the car to the ground becuase the fuel coming out of the spark plug holes caught a hose on fire. After that and moving forward, i pulled the plug wires too.