Overheating!
#1
Overheating!
So I live in the Phoenix AZ area. My car is an 05 AT Sport. Since the temps in Phoenix get into the 100's on a regular basis, my car tends to run hot.
I have brought it to the attention of my favorite dealer and they have been unable to cure the problem. They have changed the water pump, the thermostat and the radiator. And I'm on my fourth engine.
Mazda has sent their Engineers out twice to look at the car and try to figure it out. They installed foam strips around the shrouding for the radiator ducting. Had no effect. They did find that Mazda's Premix Coolant was 60% Antifreeze and 40% water. So we changed the ratio to 70% distilled water and 30% antifreeze and installed a bottle of Waterwetter. But to this day the car still runs hot when it's over 105 degrees.
This is what it was doing yesterday when it was between 111 and 114 degrees outside. I was monitoring the coolant temp with my Accessport.
This is what I saw,,,
This pic was when I came to a stop at a traffic light, as soon as I took off from the light the temp went to 241 degrees for a about a minute.
The dealer is calling Mazda again and i will talk to them later and see what they found out.
I have the Mazmart waterpump and have not installed it yet. I was waiting to see what Mazda said about it. I don't want to burn up an engine and have them blame the waterpump, if you know what I mean.
So any ideas? I have discussed this at length with the knowledgeable people on the forum but at this point I'll take any suggestions. Other than "Don't drive the car"
I have brought it to the attention of my favorite dealer and they have been unable to cure the problem. They have changed the water pump, the thermostat and the radiator. And I'm on my fourth engine.
Mazda has sent their Engineers out twice to look at the car and try to figure it out. They installed foam strips around the shrouding for the radiator ducting. Had no effect. They did find that Mazda's Premix Coolant was 60% Antifreeze and 40% water. So we changed the ratio to 70% distilled water and 30% antifreeze and installed a bottle of Waterwetter. But to this day the car still runs hot when it's over 105 degrees.
This is what it was doing yesterday when it was between 111 and 114 degrees outside. I was monitoring the coolant temp with my Accessport.
This is what I saw,,,
This pic was when I came to a stop at a traffic light, as soon as I took off from the light the temp went to 241 degrees for a about a minute.
The dealer is calling Mazda again and i will talk to them later and see what they found out.
I have the Mazmart waterpump and have not installed it yet. I was waiting to see what Mazda said about it. I don't want to burn up an engine and have them blame the waterpump, if you know what I mean.
So any ideas? I have discussed this at length with the knowledgeable people on the forum but at this point I'll take any suggestions. Other than "Don't drive the car"
Last edited by Easy_E1; 06-18-2008 at 03:54 PM.
#8
Thanks DMC.
Hard to believe they can't fix this. I did settle the engine replacement matter with them. I was happy.
But why they can't solve this issue is beyond me.
Hmmmm R3,,,,, I was hoping to go another 2 years in this car before I get a new one.
Hard to believe they can't fix this. I did settle the engine replacement matter with them. I was happy.
But why they can't solve this issue is beyond me.
Hmmmm R3,,,,, I was hoping to go another 2 years in this car before I get a new one.
#9
Jedi, I bought that pump at SSX last year. I was waiting to see if what Mazda did would change anything. Of course it hasn't been hot enough until now to see if their fix worked. Obviously it didn't.
It seems the only thing we have'nt done is check the trans temps. If it is overheating then it will bring the coolant temp in the radiator up with it. AT you know. I checked it (trans pan) at MM's yesterday and it was the same as the coolant temps. 210.
It seems the only thing we have'nt done is check the trans temps. If it is overheating then it will bring the coolant temp in the radiator up with it. AT you know. I checked it (trans pan) at MM's yesterday and it was the same as the coolant temps. 210.
#10
yup, that's when I picked mine up as well. Personal delivery by Paul FTW.
I bolded part of the name because your original post has it listed as a mazsport pump.
My last Mazda (626 / AT) had 'issues' with the transmission overheating all the time. I ended up getting a transmission fluid cooling unit.
I bolded part of the name because your original post has it listed as a mazsport pump.
My last Mazda (626 / AT) had 'issues' with the transmission overheating all the time. I ended up getting a transmission fluid cooling unit.
#11
Fixed the first post. Sorry Paul.
I was thinking of doing that. Just disconnect the AT cooler from the radiator and install a separate cooler. But let me measure the temps again and see if that could be the problem. If I see high trans temps then I'll think about doing it.
I was thinking of doing that. Just disconnect the AT cooler from the radiator and install a separate cooler. But let me measure the temps again and see if that could be the problem. If I see high trans temps then I'll think about doing it.
#13
Erick,
I'm in the same boat. The only diffrence is mine is 10-15 degrees cooler. Oh BTW just cruising, no boosting.
That being said I know the BHR rad is making a diffrence. You or I need to install a 2nd oil cooler and verify our findings.
I'm in the same boat. The only diffrence is mine is 10-15 degrees cooler. Oh BTW just cruising, no boosting.
That being said I know the BHR rad is making a diffrence. You or I need to install a 2nd oil cooler and verify our findings.
#14
flow can be increased via the mazmart water pump BUT there's no guarantee that Mazda won't point the finger at it if this engine were to also fail. (this is the 4th engine in this car)
radiator might be problem. OEM I assume?
Have any AT owners added a 2nd oil cooler?
radiator might be problem. OEM I assume?
Have any AT owners added a 2nd oil cooler?
#15
What type of oil and viscosity are you using? Maybe bump up to a higher viscosity.
Does the AT have one or two oil coolers? If it has one is it possible to install a second one?
Man, it's hot where you're at...
Does the AT have one or two oil coolers? If it has one is it possible to install a second one?
Man, it's hot where you're at...
#17
As you saw yesterday, its pretty easy for me to get my temps out of control as well.
The high ambient heat and low humidity make the radiator completely ineffective.
I know my intercooler isn't helping air flow at all, but there is more to it than that.
I even hooked my washer bottle up to a set of misters and emptied the entire bottle on the rad to no avail.
At the car wash the other day, it took 30 seconds or more of direct, full-trigger spray on the rad to get the temps to fall.
At this point, the only things I can think to do are to experiment with coolant mixes. I might actually try a 50/50 mix or something closer to what Mazda delivered to you.
Completely counter-intuitive and contrary to conventional wisdom, but it is one of the few things that hasn't been tried.
The high ambient heat and low humidity make the radiator completely ineffective.
I know my intercooler isn't helping air flow at all, but there is more to it than that.
I even hooked my washer bottle up to a set of misters and emptied the entire bottle on the rad to no avail.
At the car wash the other day, it took 30 seconds or more of direct, full-trigger spray on the rad to get the temps to fall.
At this point, the only things I can think to do are to experiment with coolant mixes. I might actually try a 50/50 mix or something closer to what Mazda delivered to you.
Completely counter-intuitive and contrary to conventional wisdom, but it is one of the few things that hasn't been tried.
#19
The radiator is new. OEM.
The problem is is that the trans cooler is in the radiator transferring more heat to the coolant.
This is one of the things Mazda goofed on with the AT. One engine oil cooler, trans cooler in radiator, diminished radiator capacity and additional heat due to trans cooler. I've been thinking about an additional engine oil cooler and seperating the trans cooler to a remote.
But the thing that bothers me about doing this is,,, Why didn't Mazda do this in the first place? Why should I have to spend extra money and time to make my car work the way it should have from the beginning?
Called the dealer today, also sent them the pics, and they are calling the Mazda Tech line to see if they have any answers. Other than the ones they already tried that didn't work.
As far as engine oil 5w-30 Castrol.
The problem is is that the trans cooler is in the radiator transferring more heat to the coolant.
This is one of the things Mazda goofed on with the AT. One engine oil cooler, trans cooler in radiator, diminished radiator capacity and additional heat due to trans cooler. I've been thinking about an additional engine oil cooler and seperating the trans cooler to a remote.
But the thing that bothers me about doing this is,,, Why didn't Mazda do this in the first place? Why should I have to spend extra money and time to make my car work the way it should have from the beginning?
Called the dealer today, also sent them the pics, and they are calling the Mazda Tech line to see if they have any answers. Other than the ones they already tried that didn't work.
As far as engine oil 5w-30 Castrol.
#20
I have read on here that distiled water and water wetter helps(no antifreeze)less viscosity makes the water move faster. You can try this too it stops that super heated air from going into your engine and only takes a minute to do.
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/no-more-detonation-%2Amiac%2A-121249/
let us know if this helps. Good luck...
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/no-more-detonation-%2Amiac%2A-121249/
let us know if this helps. Good luck...
#21
Yeah, we've already done that.
I ran distilled only and then distilled and Water Wetter.
Now I add about 10% antifreeze and that seemed to slow the heat-up.
That is why I'm thinking the added mass of the anti-freeze might be a good thing.
I ran distilled only and then distilled and Water Wetter.
Now I add about 10% antifreeze and that seemed to slow the heat-up.
That is why I'm thinking the added mass of the anti-freeze might be a good thing.
#23
dont run just water. the water pump needs a little lube, a 70/30 blend has worked the best for us. The DEI coolant stuff works better for us than the redline.
At those temps both of your fans are on BUT the air needs a way to escape. The head of mazdaspeed north america's nephrew--he was driving for roar racing at the time---told us that the only thing they really found to work was a second oil cooler and a vented hood.Even with that in extreme climates it is marginal at best.
20w50 oil is imho opinion a must for operating in that heat range.
The heat soak on these cars happens fast and like it has been said it recovers slowly indicating not much of a margin from being totally overwhelmed.
I understand why you do not want to install the pump---it does help but i dont think it will solve the prob.
We all know what it would take to solve it and that is:
1-vented hood
2-better water pump(electric water pump would be VERY NICE)
3- 70/30 blend coolant
4- a 180 thermostat(stock one is not fully open until after 200F!) barrel type
5- a better radiator with a better shroud--our fans are good but they need turning on at 180F and a better front air entry sealing.
6- separate a/t cooler
7- additional oil cooler
THEN your temps would be under control.
As it is , when that type weather good luck man.
olddragger
At those temps both of your fans are on BUT the air needs a way to escape. The head of mazdaspeed north america's nephrew--he was driving for roar racing at the time---told us that the only thing they really found to work was a second oil cooler and a vented hood.Even with that in extreme climates it is marginal at best.
20w50 oil is imho opinion a must for operating in that heat range.
The heat soak on these cars happens fast and like it has been said it recovers slowly indicating not much of a margin from being totally overwhelmed.
I understand why you do not want to install the pump---it does help but i dont think it will solve the prob.
We all know what it would take to solve it and that is:
1-vented hood
2-better water pump(electric water pump would be VERY NICE)
3- 70/30 blend coolant
4- a 180 thermostat(stock one is not fully open until after 200F!) barrel type
5- a better radiator with a better shroud--our fans are good but they need turning on at 180F and a better front air entry sealing.
6- separate a/t cooler
7- additional oil cooler
THEN your temps would be under control.
As it is , when that type weather good luck man.
olddragger
#24
1. remove the battery box then relocate the battery.
2. Remove the original air filter box and its under tray, replace with a CAI with extension piping that reroute the air filter to somewhere else.
3. Get a 3 layer radiator.
4. A CF hood with ventilation hole.
5. If still not enough, can add fans in front of the aircond condenser.
2. Remove the original air filter box and its under tray, replace with a CAI with extension piping that reroute the air filter to somewhere else.
3. Get a 3 layer radiator.
4. A CF hood with ventilation hole.
5. If still not enough, can add fans in front of the aircond condenser.
#25
Originally Posted by olddragger
dont run just water.
Originally Posted by olddragger
The DEI coolant stuff works better for us than the redline.
Originally Posted by olddragger
The head of mazdaspeed north america's nephrew--he was driving for roar racing at the time---told us that the only thing they really found to work was a second oil cooler and a vented hood.Even with that in extreme climates it is marginal at best.
Originally Posted by olddragger
20w50 oil is imho opinion a must for operating in that heat range.
Originally Posted by olddragger
1-vented hood
Originally Posted by olddragger
2-better water pump(electric water pump would be VERY NICE)
Originally Posted by olddragger
3- 70/30 blend coolant
Originally Posted by olddragger
4- a 180 thermostat(stock one is not fully open until after 200F!) barrel type
Originally Posted by olddragger
5- a better radiator with a better shroud--our fans are good but they need turning on at 180F and a better front air entry sealing.
With the AP, the fans are coming on at 180°.
Originally Posted by olddragger
6- separate a/t cooler
7- additional oil cooler
7- additional oil cooler
Originally Posted by olddragger
THEN your temps would be under control.
Originally Posted by csl
1. remove the battery box then relocate the battery.
Originally Posted by csl
2. Remove the original air filter box and its under tray, replace with a CAI with extension piping that reroute the air filter to somewhere else.
Originally Posted by csl
3. Get a 3 layer radiator.
Originally Posted by csl
4. A CF hood with ventilation hole.
Originally Posted by csl
5. If still not enough, can add fans in front of the aircond condenser.
The problem is a combination of factors:
- A thermally inefficient motor
- Low mass of the motor itself
- The rad is not aligned with airflow
- Nearly zero relative humidity
- High ambient temps
- Constant A/C usage
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 06-18-2008 at 09:52 PM.